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Sheesh Built, put on your big boy pants...

If you want to come on here and call BS on everything then - expect the rest of us to call BS on your BS. You come on here and explain how your the expert and advise all the recruits and know all the coaches have a philosophy on life and fandom but you want us to make sure our comments are not hurting your feelings? You have officially upped the ante on bizarre posts.

Oh... I get it. Your trolling me/us. Good one! You got me.

Never have i claimed that i am a expert or that i am some authority. Simply sharing what i see, hear and observe. Some of it has been professional in nature. When asked by coaches or parents and players about programs and coaches i will tell them what i think. If asked to scout a player i will do so , including a get to know the family, the values, the character, the academic. If asked to rate coaches from no comment, to good, to great i will do so. Often, players and families already know. My opinion on this board is no more valuable than any other and i try and make a point to not make a crude or personal putdown of others.
 


Who started the thread? A troll trying to avoid being totally outed

Trolls do not pay big bucks for tickets, fly in for some home games, cheer for the team, endow a scholarship. Also stand at games when it is rocking despite being told to sit down. Any accuser can meet me scouting high school games, AAU events, or at my seats. I cheer hard for this program and have for a very long time. Can any of us be trolled by others ? If there is a consensus that my information and insights, shared experiences of being around other programs is worth i can stop posting. Personally i have taken a great interest with several posters that share their opinions and ideas and observations. Even when their is strong disagreement i find myself learning something. If someone thinks that at near 80 i will be hurt by personal attacks that is on them. If pushing buttons to insult someone is your thing so be it. Outed ? Why not meet meet me at a game.
 

Trolls do not pay big bucks for tickets, fly in for some home games, cheer for the team, endow a scholarship. Also stand at games when it is rocking despite being told to sit down. Any accuser can meet me scouting high school games, AAU events, or at my seats. I cheer hard for this program and have for a very long time. Can any of us be trolled by others ? If there is a consensus that my information and insights, shared experiences of being around other programs is worth i can stop posting. Personally i have taken a great interest with several posters that share their opinions and ideas and observations. Even when their is strong disagreement i find myself learning something. If someone thinks that at near 80 i will be hurt by personal attacks that is on them. If pushing buttons to insult someone is your thing so be it. Outed ? Why not meet meet me at a game.

You have repeatedly called some posts personal attacks and been butt hurt. Not personal attacks, unlike you continual shots at Pitino.

And those posts call you out for inconsistency and challenge your unnecessary shots at Pitino.
 

Seriously Dude? What were you thinking when you created a username of “builtbadgers”???? Did you think no one on GOPHER board would have a problem with you? Add in the love affair with Gard and the Bennett’s, and I think you’ve been treated as well as any enemy poster in the history of message boards.......SMH


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Seriously Dude? What were you thinking when you created a username of “builtbadgers”???? Did you think no one on GOPHER board would have a problem with you? Add in the love affair with Gard and the Bennett’s, and I think you’ve been treated as well as any enemy poster in the history of message boards.......SMH


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It is a name given to me by a former coach. Used as a joke on the board not knowing that people hate for names or make judgements on them. If content bothers you as a point of success and reference do not read it. Personal insults is not a way to a discussion.
 

built, be who you are. The guys that go after you are border line psychotic like BarnBurner who is probably gonna be in jail in a few months, so no worry there and others like JimmyJames who while good intentioned think this should be a site devoted to nothing but rah rah and reasoned takes on basketball and recruiting have no place. Don't try to placate this bunch. They may try to make you feel like intelligence and reason is a bad thing, but don't fall into their trap.

And BTW this is coming from a Pitino fan.
 

built, be who you are. The guys that go after you are border line psychotic like BarnBurner who is probably gonna be in jail in a few months, so no worry there and others like JimmyJames who while good intentioned think this should be a site devoted to nothing but rah rah and reasoned takes on basketball and recruiting have no place. Don't try to placate this bunch. They may try to make you feel like intelligence and reason is a bad thing, but don't fall into their trap.

And BTW this is coming from a Pitino fan.

I second this. I come on the board for discussion. Discussion without different perspectives is boring and stagnant.
 

built, be who you are. The guys that go after you are border line psychotic like BarnBurner who is probably gonna be in jail in a few months, so no worry there and others like JimmyJames who while good intentioned think this should be a site devoted to nothing but rah rah and reasoned takes on basketball and recruiting have no place. Don't try to placate this bunch. They may try to make you feel like intelligence and reason is a bad thing, but don't fall into their trap.

And BTW this is coming from a Pitino fan.

Your the kind of poster that you and i have had disagreements followed by healthy exchange of thoughts and ideas. It is not as though i want Richard to fail, just not a fan how he has gone about it. Always my observation and opinion. Will never shy away from calling it like i see it. Look forward to our next exchange whether we are in agreement or not.
 



We have had our differences and I try not to make it personal. We can respect each other's opinion, but that doesn't mean we have to agree. I do like Pitino's potential more than some of you, and by no means do I have a lower standard.

To put it in perspective, I was years ahead of the crowd calling for Woog and Lucia to be replaced. Many looked at the overall records and said I was crazy, but I looked at the details of how they coached and expected better.

Pitino was hired as a top P5 head coach very, very early in his career. He did not have the time to develop his style, recruiting standards, roster management, etc at a lower level before he was thrown into the fire. On numerous occasions I have supplied data that shows he is on track with many other successful coaches "at this point" in his HC career. He has shown signs of improvement and that he has learned from his early mistakes. The team is still not at the level that we expect it to be, but he has taken it to the NCAA 2 out of the last 3 years (It could have been 3 years in a row without the major injuries, etc). If Pitino stop improving, then I will again expect a better coach.

Many of our fans are our own worst enemy! We have got to have hope and support our program instead of always using the past to bash our team.

You're right, but an argument could be made that he was in a better situation. He grew up in a basketball family. Rick Pitino is his dad. He was on Billy Donovon's staff for a couple of years. 5 years combined under these 2 Title winning coaches (Richard was involved in 3 Elite 8"s and one Final 4 during the 5 years). Didn't he learn anything in this environment before he was named coach of the Gophers? I want him succeed, I really do. His results speak for themselves.
 

Apologies if I’ve missed it but I’d love to see this data you speak of. I don’t recall seeing it. Been a busy summer/fall for me so not much time spent on here. I recall it being the opposite though

Agreed. I too would love to see this data. My guess is that it's dishonest nonsense, like his attempt earlier this week to compare Krzyzewski at Army to Pitino at Minnesota. Hey, did you know Pitino has more conference wins at Minnesota than Krzyzewski did at Army? (Army was an independent and thus didn't play any conference games, but that's beside the point.) Hey, did you know that Pitino has made it to the NCAA Tournament twice at Minnesota? Coach K didn't do that at Army!!! (Independent schools rarely if ever make the NCAA Tournament in basketball, but that's beside the point too.)

My guess is that the above is the level of "data" he has to present on the topic. Like you, I have never seen it though he has presented it on "numerous occasions," but would love to see it now.
 

Trolls do not pay big bucks for tickets, fly in for some home games, cheer for the team, endow a scholarship. Also stand at games when it is rocking despite being told to sit down. Any accuser can meet me scouting high school games, AAU events, or at my seats. I cheer hard for this program and have for a very long time. Can any of us be trolled by others ? If there is a consensus that my information and insights, shared experiences of being around other programs is worth i can stop posting. Personally i have taken a great interest with several posters that share their opinions and ideas and observations. Even when their is strong disagreement i find myself learning something. If someone thinks that at near 80 i will be hurt by personal attacks that is on them. If pushing buttons to insult someone is your thing so be it. Outed ? Why not meet meet me at a game.


Again, this is a bizarre thread. Are we really so bored at this point that we are arguing on who is hurting who's feelings?

There is no vice in being passionate about your opinion and vigorously defending it. Conversely, there is no virtue in pretending that everyone has a great opinion. Everyone try to be civil and at the same time "cowboy up" a little so we can put a limit on these types of threads.

Can we move on from this thread and get back to wrestling with how the gophers pick up the pace on recruiting, win games and fun stuff.
 
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Agreed. I too would love to see this data. My guess is that it's dishonest nonsense, like his attempt earlier this week to compare Krzyzewski at Army to Pitino at Minnesota. Hey, did you know Pitino has more conference wins at Minnesota than Krzyzewski did at Army? (Army was an independent and thus didn't play any conference games, but that's beside the point.) Hey, did you know that Pitino has made it to the NCAA Tournament twice at Minnesota? Coach K didn't do that at Army!!! (Independent schools rarely if ever make the NCAA Tournament in basketball, but that's beside the point too.)

My guess is that the above is the level of "data" he has to present on the topic. Like you, I have never seen it though he has presented it on "numerous occasions," but would love to see it now.

DP, you most definitely have selective memory.

My discussion on coach K was to present his record versus Pitino's record at a similar point in their career. Army did join a conference during coach K's last year and I added his first three years at Duke. I am not claiming that Pitino is at the same level as the current coach K, just pointing out to those who are jumping all over Pitino for his record, may not have given coach K a chance either. It was post #984 in the 2020 recruiting thread and it carry on there and the "coaches thread".

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Here is a question for you Built.

Here are the records of two young coaches, who do you think has done a better job of coaching?

Coach A:

8 years as a HC

Overall record is 111W-106L for a 51.2% record.

Conference record is 19W-37L for a 33.9%

No NCAA appearances

Coach B:

7 years as a HC

Overall record is 130W-106L for a 55.1% record.

Conference record is 40W-70L for a 36.4%

2 NCAA appearances
 



built, be who you are. The guys that go after you are border line psychotic like BarnBurner who is probably gonna be in jail in a few months, so no worry there and others like JimmyJames who while good intentioned think this should be a site devoted to nothing but rah rah and reasoned takes on basketball and recruiting have no place. Don't try to placate this bunch. They may try to make you feel like intelligence and reason is a bad thing, but don't fall into their trap.

And BTW this is coming from a Pitino fan.


I agree. He has some good insight.
 

I agree. He has some good insight.

And let’s face it, I don’t come here to listen to people rant or complain, I come here to pick up rumors or knowledge from those few who might be plugged into something.
 

And let’s face it, I don’t come here to listen to people rant or complain, I come here to pick up rumors or knowledge from those few who might be plugged into something.

Yeah pretty much, only reason I joined gopher hole
 

Apologies if I’ve missed it but I’d love to see this data you speak of. I don’t recall seeing it. Been a busy summer/fall for me so not much time spent on here. I recall it being the opposite though

As many people do not want to acknowledge or accept, Pitino was hire to "learn on the job" with the hope that we may be getting a diamond in the rough. His overall record is nothing to be proud of, but he has made progress just as most other coaches do. The problem for fans of the U is that he has made those early mistakes while coaching a P5 program and not at some smaller school.

In BarnBurners list of young coaches... thread (post #20), Built gave a list of young coaches that are hot today. I responded by showing that most of those young coaches are 10 years older that Pitino and a long time to develop there HC skills before they got their big break:

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Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
Bennett is well on his way, Beard is well on his way. Stack is going to do very well. Fife is someone i really like. Rhoades i like a ton. Do you think Pitino will be ? How long will you give him to win the conference ? It is ok to be wrong, i will miss on some of my names but i will not wait 10 years for a conference title. Early conference titles are a great forecast of long term success.

Teague was a slimeball with poor abilities. He was Villa 7 driven a wasted his time there. That is not where he got Pitino whom was not part of Villa. He could have had Buzz Williams who had the backing of several hall of fame guys. He went for winning the press conference which is a fatal error because it is fan driven not goal driven. UW did not win the press conference on Bennett, Ryan, Gard. UVA did not win the press conference with Tony Bennett, Fans wanted Tubby ! They got the grand slam guy on the backing of K, Knight,Jerry West, Izzo who all knew what he already was. Nova did not win the press conference on Wright but they had the courage to hire the right guy. Smart, tough, charismatic as hell. All backed by basketball people. Coyle got endorsements from the best in the business on Fleck. Time will tell. Pitino could do it here but he better do it damn soon. That ability to do something big in the 1st 5 years is a great predictor of success and proven historically. How long do you give someone to win the conference before you know they can not ? I said over and over i support this year.


Built, your judgment of Pitino is getting comical!

Pitino (37 yrs old) was thrown directly into the fire and had to learn on the job in the B1G, a very unforgiving situation. You are not holding your "guys" to the same standards. Many of those coaches that you listed got to learn to be a HC at the DIII or CC/JC levels, not anywhere near the B1G level. Here is a quick summary of the guys you listed. They may all be very good coaches, but not held up to the same standards that you expected out of Pitino.

Coach Beard: 46 yrs old, first became a HC at Fort Scott Community College, Seminole State JC, went back to being an assistant for ten years under Bobby Knight, then was a HC on an ABA team, then McMurry University and then Angelo State before he got his big break at Arkansas – Little Rock and now Texas Tech.

Coach Fife: 40 yrs old, His HC experience amounts 6 years at IPFW in the Summit conference where he had a 0.458 winning percentage with only 2 winning seasons! I guess his claim to fame is that he was an assistant at Indiana and is currently an assistant at MSU.

Coach Rhoades: 46 yrs old, His HC experience was 10 years at DIII Randolph-Macon where he started winning the Old Dominion Conference title his 3rd thru 6th years and had an overall 0.722 winning percentage. That allowed him to become an assistant at VCU for 4 years and then the HC at Rice for 3 years where he had an 0.475 winning percentage. He is now the HC at VCU with two winning seasons.

Coach Bennett: 50 yrs old, has been a star as a HC with only his last year at WSU and his first two years at Virginia being near 500 seasons.

It is obvious that you disliked Teague and do not respect the way he hired our BB coach. It seems like you are letting that influence your opinion of Pitino. You didn't like that other "more qualified" candidates were passed over, you didn't like that he was very inexperienced, you think he was hired "because of his name", you didn't like that the normal channels (like talking to you) weren't followed, etc... But you have to get over it and judge his talents like other coaches. Even with his "learning mistakes" he has season with 25, 24 and 22 wins and has got us to the NCAA twice. That is not yet good enough, but it is far from the D coaching grade that you say he deserves!
 

And let’s face it, I don’t come here to listen to people rant or complain, I come here to pick up rumors or knowledge from those few who might be plugged into something.

It may not seem like it at times, but that is exactly why i joined.
 


While I'm not interested in the pity party, I think the OP makes a valid point. I find the vast majority of this forum to be toxic. Then again, are there examples of widespread civility anywhere on the internet?

The only reason I come here anymore is to see if we've landed a recruit and to see who's arguing with who. Go Gophers!
 


It's the same thing we get into on the football board. when is it permitted to question the head coach and who decides whether that criticism is valid?

I do not believe that being a fan means slavish loyalty to the coach. I am a fan of the Gophers - the school and the program. Coaches and players come and go.

I don't have a problem with Built. I have relatives who are Badger fans. I understand where Built is coming from.

for me, the big question is what do we as fans expect from the program? is just making the NCAA tournament good enough, or does the team need to make a legitimate tournament run every once in a while?

I can appreciate stats and analytics, but I'm more of an "eye-test" guy. I know what I think a good team looks like. Under Pitino, sometimes the Gophs look like a good team and sometimes they don't. That's all I'm saying. Not saying Pitino is a bad coach, or can't succeed here. Just saying that if he's going to succeed, he needs to show improvement.
 

It's the same thing we get into on the football board. when is it permitted to question the head coach and who decides whether that criticism is valid?

I do not believe that being a fan means slavish loyalty to the coach. I am a fan of the Gophers - the school and the program. Coaches and players come and go.

I don't have a problem with Built. I have relatives who are Badger fans. I understand where Built is coming from.

for me, the big question is what do we as fans expect from the program? is just making the NCAA tournament good enough, or does the team need to make a legitimate tournament run every once in a while?

I can appreciate stats and analytics, but I'm more of an "eye-test" guy. I know what I think a good team looks like. Under Pitino, sometimes the Gophs look like a good team and sometimes they don't. That's all I'm saying. Not saying Pitino is a bad coach, or can't succeed here. Just saying that if he's going to succeed, he needs to show improvement.

There's nothing wrong with criticizing Pitino. What's annoying is when he's constantly compared to how the Badgers do it or how Tony Bennett does it. Instead of it coming off as a criticism, it comes off as its too bad your team isnt like my team the badgers, or my coach Bennett.
 

There's nothing wrong with criticizing Pitino. What's annoying is when he's constantly compared to how the Badgers do it or how Tony Bennett does it. Instead of it coming off as a criticism, it comes off as its too bad your team isnt like my team the badgers, or my coach Bennett.

Pretty much nailed it
 

There's nothing wrong with criticizing Pitino. What's annoying is when he's constantly compared to how the Badgers do it or how Tony Bennett does it. Instead of it coming off as a criticism, it comes off as its too bad your team isnt like my team the badgers, or my coach Bennett.

He's comparing to what he knows. That is what most people do.
 

Because i admire other programs, go to their games as well. Cheer for the Gophers but that is not good enough for some. You have to say only good things about one coach, one program. Do i lose my Gopher card for attending and cheering for UVA at the final 4 ?

Of course not. But one could spend an hour on The Sabre and not find anyone slobbering over Tony Bennet quite as much as we see here.
 

There's nothing wrong with criticizing Pitino. What's annoying is when he's constantly compared to how the Badgers do it or how Tony Bennett does it. Instead of it coming off as a criticism, it comes off as its too bad your team isnt like my team the badgers, or my coach Bennett.

Thanks, Jimmy. I repeat myself a lot, but I'm sure I am not as annoying as Built:rolleyes:, who seems to have the same answer to every question, no matter what it is. It's never been a criticism of being a critic as much as the fawning over rival coaches. I'm pretty sure he wants him fired, but I am not sure he has ever said that directly, which presents as borderline dishonest.
 

He's comparing to what he knows. That is what most people do.

Nope.

Built is doing a great job of taking shots at RP ever chance he gets. You can do what you suggest WITHOUT taking shots. Built doesn't.
 


I am probably one of the posters that gets labeled as being blindly loyal to Pitino. I don't see it that way, I feel he still has potential and is making progress. I am not happy with the overall record, but i don't think it reflects his overall ability to coach. I think it is tarnished by some of his learning curve problems that hopefully he has put behind him. I also am a person that is full of optimism and feels that it breeds success. Believe me, I will call for his head if it looks like he is not capable of moving this program to the next level, I just have a difficult time not responding to some of the knee jerk negative responses.

Ski-U-Mah
 




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