What If WMU Had Beaten Wisconsin?

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BroncoRedux

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Would the Gophers have been able to hire Fleck had the Broncos gone 13 - 0?

I say no.
 

Yes, because Minnesota offers more than just the chance to coach. And we let him keep his "RTB".
 

I've wondered that before.

Most other jobs had filled up before the Sugar Bowl though. Texas hired Herman in December, Oregon announced Taggart in December etc.

If he was dead set on leaving WMU that season then I think we probably still get him because all the better jobs filled up. But if he beat Wisconsin then it's possible he would have decided to stay at WMU another year to see what other jobs had opened up.

Overall, I would say yes, we would still get him.
 


Texas took Herman and he really seemed to be the pick of the litter that year and I suspect that would remain the case regardless if PJ beat Wisc.

- Tom Herman, Texas.

- P.J. Fleck, Minnesota.

- Willie Taggart, Oregon.

- Jeff Brohm, Purdue.

- Matt Rhule, Baylor.

- Lincoln Riley, Oklahoma.

- Charlie Strong, USF.

- Mike Sanford, WKU.

I don't think much changes in any of that.

PJ was a great candidate but beating Wisc probabbly gets more attention but perhaps not that many (or none) better job offers at that time. Who gets hired a given year is pretty random year to year.
 
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The tier “above” Minnesota (in terms of attractiveness for HCs) has almost no history of hiring HCs out of the MAC without an extensive past connection to the school.

However, as MAC HCs go, Fleck was probably the best candidate in decades for a P5 HC position.
 

Goldmember said:
The tier “above” Minnesota (in terms of attractiveness for HCs) has almost no history of hiring HCs out of the MAC without an extensive past connection to the school.

However, as MAC HCs go, Fleck was probably the best candidate in decades for a P5 HC position.
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Yeah there was no question that PJ was move'n up soonish. Even after the 15 season PJ had gathered enough attention for getting WMU on track, crooting, and for just being PJ that he was often mentioned as good candidate to move up. 16 sort of just sealed the deal.
 

Goldmember said:
The tier “above” Minnesota (in terms of attractiveness for HCs) has almost no history of hiring HCs out of the MAC without an extensive past connection to the school.

However, as MAC HCs go, Fleck was probably the best candidate in decades for a P5 HC position.
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That seems to be the case.

Minnesotans have a bit of an inferiority complex, I think. We always assume that we're near the bottom of the list as far as coaching destinations go.

We're a Big Ten school in a great metro area with a high quality of life, great schools for kids.

I'd be hard pressed to name all that many better destinations that are likely to hire a coach from a lesser conference. As Goldmember said, the Notre Dames, Ohio States, Michigans etc. aren't likely to pick a MAC coach. Not unless he has direct ties to their own school, like Frost at Nebraska.
 

die hard gopher said:
I've wondered that before.

Most other jobs had filled up before the Sugar Bowl though. Texas hired Herman in December, Oregon announced Taggart in December etc.

If he was dead set on leaving WMU that season then I think we probably still get him because all the better jobs filled up. But if he beat Wisconsin then it's possible he would have decided to stay at WMU another year to see what other jobs had opened up.

Overall, I would say yes, we would still get him.
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I believe I read that he and Heather had already agreed that there were something like 10 P5 jobs that they were willing to leave WMU for, and Minnesota was one of them. I don't recall what the criteria were that led to the 10, or if it was explicitly mentioned.


So I think you're exactly right.

The two big factors are: 1) would any P5's bigger than Minnesota, that still had an opening at that time, have been interested in Fleck because of the win, and 2) would such programs be willing to take a MAC head coach as their head coach, as opposed to taking a P5 head coach or coordinator, or a head coach from a higher level G5 conf?


Maybe, but I don't think so.
 



MnplsGopher said:
I believe I read that he and Heather had already agreed that there were something like 10 P5 jobs that they were willing to leave WMU for, and Minnesota was one of them. I don't recall what the criteria were that led to the 10, or if it was explicitly mentioned.


So I think you're exactly right.

The two big factors are: 1) would any P5's bigger than Minnesota, that still had an opening at that time, have been interested in Fleck because of the win, and 2) would such programs be willing to take a MAC head coach as their head coach, as opposed to taking a P5 head coach or coordinator, or a head coach from a higher level G5 conf?


Maybe, but I don't think so.
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IIRC Heather and PJ both ... didn't want to be in a small town anymore / wanted to enjoy the city.

I love the city and I can imagine for a college coach who does too there aren't a lot of options.

I'm sure they're grateful to WMU but they've dropped hints about how the winter here isn't too bad compared to WMU because at WMU winter means no sun for nearly the entire winter.
 

Any school would also have to meet the following criteria:

1. He keeps his "Row the Boat"
2. School must have a medical facility to partner with RTB
3. School must be tolerant of Heather/PJ PDAs
4. Facilities must be "Elite"
 

Otis said:
Any school would also have to meet the following criteria:

1. He keeps his "Row the Boat"
2. School must have a medical facility to partner with RTB
3. School must be tolerant of Heather/PJ PDAs
4. Facilities must be "Elite"
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Well we're in trouble now.
 

RememberMurray said:
That seems to be the case.

Minnesotans have a bit of an inferiority complex, I think. We always assume that we're near the bottom of the list as far as coaching destinations go.

We're a Big Ten school in a great metro area with a high quality of life, great schools for kids.

I'd be hard pressed to name all that many better destinations that are likely to hire a coach from a lesser conference. As Goldmember said, the Notre Dames, Ohio States, Michigans etc. aren't likely to pick a MAC coach. Not unless he has direct ties to their own school, like Frost at Nebraska.
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Well, Ohio State picked Jim Tressel over a coach from an upper tier college.
 



By all accounts, Fleck BADLY wanted the Oregon job but wasn't able to land it.

I don't think the outcome of the Cotton Bowl had any bearing on our ability to hire PJ.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
By all accounts, Fleck BADLY wanted the Oregon job but wasn't able to land it.

I don't think the outcome of the Cotton Bowl had any bearing on our ability to hire PJ.
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And the guy they hired (Taggart) went 7-5 in the regular season, then promptly left for Florida State (which hasn't done so well, since then).
 

I think they would have been 14-0?

What if Gophs had pulled out road wins over Penn State and Nebraska that year?
 

PMWinSTP said:
I think they would have been 14-0?

What if Gophs had pulled out road wins over Penn State and Nebraska that year?
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Still would've been let go, and I think you know why. (don't need to turn this thread into that)
 

BroncoRedux said:
Well, Ohio State picked Jim Tressel over a coach from an upper tier college.
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Tressel had previously been an assistant at Ohio State.

"Early positions[edit]
After graduating from Baldwin Wallace, Tressel became a graduate assistant at the University of Akron. He coached the quarterbacks, receivers, and running backs, while earning a master's degree in education. In 1978, he left to become quarterbacks and receivers coach at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio. By 1981, he had left to become the quarterbacks coach at Syracuse. In 1983, he was hired at Ohio State to be the quarterbacks and receivers coach. That year, OSU had a 9–3 record, including a 28–23 victory over Pittsburgh in the Fiesta Bowl; a 39-yard pass from quarterback Mike Tomczak to wide receiver Thad Jemison clinched the win with 39 seconds remaining in the game. In 1984, he was given the added responsibility of coaching the running backs. That year, the team became Big Ten champs, played in the Rose Bowl, and tailback Keith Byars finished second in the Heisman Trophy voting. In 1985, OSU defeated BYU in the Citrus Bowl.[9]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Tressel
 


What if Glen Mason had beat Texas Tech? What if Jerry Kill had his seizures under control? This what if game could be endless.
 

RememberMurray said:
That seems to be the case.

Minnesotans have a bit of an inferiority complex, I think. We always assume that we're near the bottom of the list as far as coaching destinations go.

We're a Big Ten school in a great metro area with a high quality of life, great schools for kids.

I'd be hard pressed to name all that many better destinations that are likely to hire a coach from a lesser conference. As Goldmember said, the Notre Dames, Ohio States, Michigans etc. aren't likely to pick a MAC coach. Not unless he has direct ties to their own school, like Frost at Nebraska.
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Woody Hayes came from Miami of Ohio. Bo Shembechler came from Miami of Ohio. And of course Gerry Faust came from Moeller High School. Obviously not the MAC, but ... (Also, wasn't called the MAC when Hayes was at Miami.)
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Woody Hayes came from Miami of Ohio. Bo Shembechler came from Miami of Ohio. And of course Gerry Faust came from Moeller High School. Obviously not the MAC, but ... (Also, wasn't called the MAC when Hayes was at Miami.)
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Wow. You're really turning the dial waaaaaay back on the ol' time machine for those names.

Also, after the Faust experiment, I doubt that any major program will be hiring a high school coach.

Unless the Gophers finally listen to certain fans and hire Mike Grant.:rolleyes:
 
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Goldmember said:
However, as MAC HCs go, Fleck was probably the best candidate in decades for a P5 HC position.
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Urban Meyer, just off the top of my head, laughably disproves your assertion. I'm certain that there are many others in "decades" as well.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Urban Meyer, just off the top of my head, laughably disproves your assertion. I'm certain that there are many others in "decades" as well.
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I think you are misinterpreting what he is arguing. He's not saying is the best coach out of any that have once coached in the MAC, that would be Saban. He is saying that he was the best candidate for a P5 job of any MAC coach at the time they were coming out the the MAC. I don't know if thats true or not but thats what he is saying.

Urban Meyer went 8-3 and then 9-4 in two years in the MAC. Not bad but nothing special. If he was that great of a candidate coming out of Bowling Green then he wouldn't have needed Utah as a stepping stone.

What Fleck did at WMU going from 1-11 to 13-1 and a top 20 finish is a lot more impressive and Fleck was likely considered a much better P5 coaching candidate coming out of WMU then Urban was coming out of Bowling Green, or Saban coming out of Toledo.
 
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dpodoll68 said:
Urban Meyer, just off the top of my head, laughably disproves your assertion. I'm certain that there are many others in "decades" as well.
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Some guy named Saban too.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Some guy named Saban too.
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Not sure how much the MAC can claim him. He coached there for 2 years as a position coach before a winding road through college and pro ranks. Michigan State can lay more claim to him than anyone else. Granted he did graduate from Kent State.
 

Goldmember said:
The tier “above” Minnesota (in terms of attractiveness for HCs) has almost no history of hiring HCs out of the MAC without an extensive past connection to the school.

However, as MAC HCs go, Fleck was probably the best candidate in decades for a P5 HC position.
Click to expand...

Fleck's under .500 in his first two seasons as P5 HC. Brady Hoke didn't go directly from Ball State (pit stop at San Diego State), but was 19-7 his first two years at Mich, 26-13 after three years.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Fleck's under .500 in his first two seasons as P5 HC. Brady Hoke didn't go directly from Ball State (pit stop at San Diego State), but was 19-7 his first two years at Mich, 26-13 after three years.
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I think Goldmember is more commenting about at the time of hire. And the Hoke comparison is apples and oranges. Michigan is Michigan. Much more difficult to win here.
 

Jeshurun said:
Not sure how much the MAC can claim him. He coached there for 2 years as a position coach before a winding road through college and pro ranks. Michigan State can lay more claim to him than anyone else. Granted he did graduate from Kent State.
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Went 9-2 as HC at Toledo in 1990, his first HC position, after they were 6-5 in the two proceeding seasons.
 

Jeshurun said:
I think Goldmember is more commenting about at the time of hire. And the Hoke comparison is apples and oranges. Michigan is Michigan. Much more difficult to win here.
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It's all relative. Look at Mich HC record preceding Hoke. Not saying he was a great coach, but Hoke immediately was more successful.
 

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