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  1. #1

    Default Rand: Is it time to consider re-hanging the 1997 Final Four banner at Williams Arena?

    per RandBall:

    For nearly 19 years, the symbol of the Gophers men’s basketball team’s greatest on-court accomplishment and biggest off-court shame has been absent from the public eye.

    At 5 a.m. Wednesday, Oct. 26, 2000, the banner from the men’s program’s lone Final Four appearance was taken down from the Williams Arena rafters as part of the extensive punishment for the school’s academic fraud scandal.

    Why so early in the day? Per a Star Tribune story from the time: to avoid prying eyes, according to school officials. And according to a story a month later, the 1997 banner was “stashed in some closet,” where it presumably has been gathering dust for the better part of two decades.

    But in light of a recent NCAA decision, Star Tribune Gophers men’s basketball beat writer Marcus Fuller asked his followers on Twitter a question: Should the banners from those vacated seasons go back up again?

    But let’s examine the issue a little more closely.

    First, the NCAA decision in question, as noted by Inside Higher Education: After the University of North Carolina somehow evaded NCAA sanctions after creating “fake classes that largely benefited athletes for nearly two decades,” a committee created by the NCAA recommended the governing body “pass a bylaw that gave it broader authority to punish institutions that engage in academic fraud.”

    But in August, the NCAA’s Board of Directors declined to support the proposal, which means per IHE that the bylaw “will not be voted on by the larger NCAA membership.”

    It’s not hard to see why this would make many people — including Gophers fans — upset. Why does North Carolina get to keep its championships and banners? And why does the NCAA, which came down so hard on Minnesota in its academic fraud case, not want to adopt a bylaw to help punish future offenders?

    http://www.startribune.com/is-it-tim...ena/559583022/

    Go Gophers!!


  2. #2

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    No thanks. Just because UNC used a huge defense team to cover their scum does not mean we should ignore our cheating by putting a banner up that we did not deserve. I would never want to win anything by cheating.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Lots of banners all over America should come down then, correct?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarnBurner View Post
    Lots of banners all over America should come down then, correct?
    Every person, every school, every program has to decide how they conduct themselves. Just because UNC-cheat DOES THINGS ONE WAY does not mean we have to be like them . Louisville took a title banner down and did not put it back up, same for a Nova FINAL 4 banner. It is my opinion that when you cheat to win something that you did not win anything. I do not want to support a program that thinks cheating, sacrificing your standards and ethics is worth it over a final 4 banner. My opinion. Some people think it is ok to cheat in a game of golf, i do not. Just because someone else does it has no influence on how i conduct myself.

  5. #5

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    put the banner back up.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Minneapolis, MN
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    7,135

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    As of 2012, banner was in a storage closet at Mariucci

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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
    No thanks. Just because UNC used a huge defense team to cover their scum does not mean we should ignore our cheating by putting a banner up that we did not deserve. I would never want to win anything by cheating.
    1 Just because we had a defense team that sucked does not mean that we should be punished more than other schools. Could we have had worse leadership at that time?
    2 Lawyers are generally the lowest people on the planet but when everyone else is using them we need to bring in the hired guns too - or be the "chumps" that allow the NCAA to make an example of us so they don't have to punish UNC.
    3 The team did not gain any advantage in games by their school life being easy. Probably would have had a better, more well disciplined team without Ganglehoff.
    4 The school should revoke completed classes and take away degrees if someone is cheating on schoolwork. Coaches work for the university and have a responsibility.
    5 Forcing the fans to pretend that the season did not happen is a bizarre way to punish the evildoers (seriously, that is the plan?)
    6 "I would never want to win anything by cheating." - as it turns out, none of us here on the gopherhole or sitting in the stands did any cheating.
    7 Cheating to win basketball game is by pulling a Davidson with a cheap shot to the groin and not turning in a paper that you didn't do - that is called cheating at school.
    8 NCAA is a monopoly which should be taken apart with extreme prejudice.

    Put the banner back up and move on.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2019
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    Columbia Heights
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPTMidnight View Post
    1 Just because we had a defense team that sucked does not mean that we should be punished more than other schools. Could we have had worse leadership at that time?
    2 Lawyers are generally the lowest people on the planet but when everyone else is using them we need to bring in the hired guns too - or be the "chumps" that allow the NCAA to make an example of us so they don't have to punish UNC.
    3 The team did not gain any advantage in games by their school life being easy. Probably would have had a better, more well disciplined team without Ganglehoff.
    4 The school should revoke completed classes and take away degrees if someone is cheating on schoolwork. Coaches work for the university and have a responsibility.
    5 Forcing the fans to pretend that the season did not happen is a bizarre way to punish the evildoers (seriously, that is the plan?)
    6 "I would never want to win anything by cheating." - as it turns out, none of us here on the gopherhole or sitting in the stands did any cheating.
    7 Cheating to win basketball game is by pulling a Davidson with a cheap shot to the groin and not turning in a paper that you didn't do - that is called cheating at school.
    8 NCAA is a monopoly which should be taken apart with extreme prejudice.

    Put the banner back up and move on.
    I agree with 99% of this but when you acknowledge they cheated at school, that would make them academically ineligible to be on the team, therefore any game they played in once they had officially cheated at school would need to be forfeited because you were using a player that should not have been available to be on the floor. The only reason I would be willing to look the other way is due to the rampant cheating at other schools not being made to forfeit victories, therefore is it really cheating if others are doing it with no consequences? Built is definitely correct with his stance, but I can't say I don't agree with CPTMidnight either.

  9. #9

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    I'd be thrilled to see it put back up, but it is not going back up anytime soon, even as the NCAA continues to be exposed as a corrupt and terminally ill entity.

    Maybe in 50 years when most of us are dead, and the NCAA as currently composed is long gone, someone might decide to put it up somewhere.
    Last edited by oak_street1981; 09-07-2019 at 08:55 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by oak_street1981 View Post
    I'd be thrilled to see it put back up, but it is not going back up anytime soon, even as the NCAA continues to be exposed as a corrupt and terminally ill entity.

    Maybe in 50 years when most of us are dead, and the NCAA as currently composed is long gone, someone might decide to put it up somewhere.
    OK, don't put that banner back up, but for an honor of some accomplishment put up a banner showing a picture of every player on the roster that year?

  11. #11

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    6 "I would never want to win anything by cheating." - as it turns out, none of us here on the gopherhole or sitting in the stands did any cheating.

    None of us were on the team, so what fans or posters did or did not do has nothing to do with what the 97 team was punished for. You honestly think that forfeiting that season is actually somehow punishing you and I as fans?

    I get the feeling that some believe that because one (or some) schools get away with it, then the Gophers should too. My folks always told me that "2 wrongs don't make a right" and "just because other guy did something wrong and avoided the consequences doesn't get me off the hook.".

    Once you start taking the "Other Guy" philosophy with one situation, the next thing you know, you'll start sacrificing your standards in other situations.

  12. #12

    Default Rand: Is it time to consider re-hanging the 1997 Final Four banner at Williams Arena?

    Only reason to put it up is a protest to the NCAA hypocrisy and bring more attention to UNC, but I don’t think anyone wins in that scenario. But then again, gophers aren’t winning now, so maybe it would be better to try to protest the decision about UNC.


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    Last edited by bc2211; 09-08-2019 at 09:13 PM.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico Gopher View Post
    6 "I would never want to win anything by cheating." - as it turns out, none of us here on the gopherhole or sitting in the stands did any cheating.

    None of us were on the team, so what fans or posters did or did not do has nothing to do with what the 97 team was punished for. You honestly think that forfeiting that season is actually somehow punishing you and I as fans?

    I get the feeling that some believe that because one (or some) schools get away with it, then the Gophers should too. My folks always told me that "2 wrongs don't make a right" and "just because other guy did something wrong and avoided the consequences doesn't get me off the hook.".

    Once you start taking the "Other Guy" philosophy with one situation, the next thing you know, you'll start sacrificing your standards in other situations.
    If the rules are not applied equitably the rules have no meaning. What your parents should have told you is that if the rules applied to you are not the same rules as everyone else you should stand your ground and fight. It is time to punch the bully in the nose.

    Hindsight is 20/20 but if we are looking backwards the U should have hired a killer legal team and just told the NCAA that that Clem had been fired, degrees revoked and measures taken to ensure it would not happen again - but under no circumstances would the University allow the fans or non-participating athletes or future athletes to be punished via long term punitive actions. Furthermore if other universities are allowed to get away with it we would immediate recognize all games and put up our banners again. Of course we would have ended up settling with the NCAA with a middle ground punishment (just like any other normal university would do)

    Never happen though as this is Minnesota.
    Last edited by CPTMidnight; 09-08-2019 at 10:21 PM.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CPTMidnight View Post
    If the rules are not applied equitably the rules have no meaning. What your parents should have told you is that if the rules applied to you are not the same rules as everyone else you should stand your ground and fight. It is time to punch the bully in the nose.

    Hindsight is 20/20 but if we are looking backwards the U should have hired a killer legal team and just told the NCAA that that Clem had been fired, degrees revoked and measures taken to ensure it would not happen again - but under no circumstances would the University allow the fans or non-participating athletes or future athletes to be punished via long term punitive actions. Furthermore if other universities are allowed to get away with it we would immediate recognize all games and put up our banners again. Of course we would have ended up settling with the NCAA with a middle ground punishment (just like any other normal university would do)

    Never happen though as this is Minnesota.
    How about just not cheating. That way when we win it there will be no slime involved. Others have done it completely clean and there is truly something special about that. If others cheat to win, that is on them.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
    How about just not cheating. That way when we win it there will be no slime involved. Others have done it completely clean and there is truly something special about that. If others cheat to win, that is on them.
    You don't seem to get it. When the NCAA creates a different set of rules for different Universities....it creates an unlevel playing field. The blue bloods and the helmet schools basically get a slap on the wrist and are allowed to continue to claim their status without punishment.

    Teams like Minnesota have their successes vacated and their programs dismantled. Teams like UNC get that slap on the wrist, continue to be worshipped and favored by the NCAA, and enjoy endless promotion.

    Worth mentioning that UNCs academic discretions were FAR worse than anything Minnesota had going on. They had entire sham programs in comparison to....what....a tutor that had been writing papers an unknown number of times for an unknown number of basketball players?

    I'm not trying to excuse any sort of cheating. But from their accomplishments ON the court...there wasn't any cheating. And if the NCAA wants to be the all powerful judge, jury, and executioner....they should apply the laws uniformly or be prepared to face the criticism and potential mutiny that's been discussed for years now.

    Speaking of different rules for different tiers of teams....transfer portal. The NCAA has played favorites for way too long.

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