Shooter: It’s beginning to look like Mark Coyle made the right hire in PJ Fleck

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Completely agree SON


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PMWinSTP said:
The concensus is Gophs should have won at least two more games last year.
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That is indeed the current religion on the 'Hole. Impossible to disprove. We'll just have to wait and see.

You hope for the best. But setting expectations has to be done with reason and logic, not emotion.
 

Gophers_4life said:
That is indeed the current religion on the 'Hole. Impossible to disprove. We'll just have to wait and see.

You hope for the best. But setting expectations has to be done with reason and logic, not emotion.
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Considering the scholarship situation/incoming class...chances are we’re going to be young again next year and into perpetuity. The time is now. Year 3. Maybe the team is better next year, maybe not. We will lose some key players after this year (and every year). We have skill and talent up and down the two deeps with some obvious unknowns - and that will be the case every year.
 

Gophers_4life said:
You hope for the best. But setting expectations has to be done with reason and logic, not emotion.
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And why is that? Are we being graded?
I’m still not sure of what horrifying consequences there are for anyone if my expectations are not met.


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Spoofin said:
And why is that? Are we being graded?
I’m still not sure of what horrifying consequences there are for anyone if my expectations are not met.


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You might post more.
Some would find that horrifying.
 



Gophers_4life said:
You’re allowed to have any unreasonable expectation you want.
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Maybe your expectations are unreasonably low. Losers have low expectations. Winners set high expectations. Something tells me Fleck has high expectations so why can't we?
 

bottlebass said:
Maybe your expectations are unreasonably low. Losers have low expectations. Winners set high expectations. Something tells me Fleck has high expectations so why can't we?
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Nailed it.
 

bottlebass said:
Maybe your expectations are unreasonably low.
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More likely the problem here is that there are many different ideas being conflated.

The bookend concepts are: what would make you disappointed, and what would make you excited? For me, those are easy: 5 or less wins would be a clear step backwards and would thus be a pretty big disappointment, while 9 or more wins would be an awesome season and make me excited.

Expectation is neither of those. It's a mean or an average. While I would be a bit disappointed with 6 wins, I don't think that will happen. I think we'll get 7 or 8, depending on the Purdue game. So I'm setting my expectation for the season at 7-5 for the regular season.

That is completely logic based and reasonable. And that's what I'll be sticking with for now. If they're blowing folks out of the water the first couple games into the Big Ten season, we'll see.
 



Gophers_4life said:
More likely the problem here is that there are many different ideas being conflated.

The bookend concepts are: what would make you disappointed, and what would make you excited? For me, those are easy: 5 or less wins would be a clear step backwards and would thus be a pretty big disappointment, while 9 or more wins would be an awesome season and make me excited.

Expectation is neither of those. It's a mean or an average. While I would be a bit disappointed with 6 wins, I don't think that will happen. I think we'll get 7 or 8, depending on the Purdue game. So I'm setting my expectation for the season at 7-5 for the regular season.

That is completely logic based and reasonable. And that's what I'll be sticking with for now. If they're blowing folks out of the water the first couple games into the Big Ten season, we'll see.
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Meh, I expect the team to take a step forward. Anything fewer than 8 regular season wins isn’t a step forward with the schedule they have.

So my expectation is 8. And I’ll be disappointed if they don’t win 8.
Perhaps I have unrealistic expectations but if we win 6-7 (barring QB injury) it means we didn’t make any progress from year 2 to year 3.
 

Gophers_4life said:
More likely the problem here is that there are many different ideas being conflated.

The bookend concepts are: what would make you disappointed, and what would make you excited? For me, those are easy: 5 or less wins would be a clear step backwards and would thus be a pretty big disappointment, while 9 or more wins would be an awesome season and make me excited.

Expectation is neither of those. It's a mean or an average. While I would be a bit disappointed with 6 wins, I don't think that will happen. I think we'll get 7 or 8, depending on the Purdue game. So I'm setting my expectation for the season at 7-5 for the regular season.

That is completely logic based and reasonable. And that's what I'll be sticking with for now. If they're blowing folks out of the water the first couple games into the Big Ten season, we'll see.
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I like your take. An expectation is not what you want to happen. It's what you believe will happen. If you had to bet your life savings, what do you think the most likely outcome would be.
 

The trick in all this is that we have a lot of people that want to assign absolutes to things right now when that really isn't possible. Saying the team has to win X # of games or do X,Y,Z for the season to be a success right now just sets you up to be disappointed.

Sure, sitting here today looking at what we have returning combined with our schedule, anything short of 8-9 wins feels like it would be a major letdown. But depending on how things play out over the course of the season that simply might not be the case. Right now we are just guessing as to how good all the other teams in the conference are going to be. Until we see teams in action it is really hard to know what to expect on a week to week basis. The other major factor in football (especially college) is injuries. As promising as our offense looks right now, if Morgan goes down the whole picture changes really quickly.

I'm sure Spoofin is already preparing his tamp, tamp, tamp post but my take applies to all teams, regardless of who the head coach is.

I am extremely optimistic about our team for this upcoming season but I also understand that things can change in a hurry in college football.
 

Right.

And for the record, I don’t have any problem or think anyone is being unreasonable to say that 9 regular season wins gets them excited. Yes, me too.

But that’s not the same thing as expectation.
 



MN sports fans are so beat into the ground all you can have are loser expectations. Fleck still has a lot of work to do on the culture of the fans. For this program being mediocre has meant being happy for way too long. I expect the gophers in the B1G championship game this year. Quit being a pu$$y.
 

bottlebass said:
MN sports fans are so beat into the ground all you can have are loser expectations. Fleck still has a lot of work to do on the culture of the fans. For this program being mediocre has meant being happy for way too long. I expect the gophers in the B1G championship game this year. Quit being a pu$$y.
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So if they fall short of the Big Ten Championship game is the season a failure then in your eyes? The championship or bust mentality only really works at places like Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State....

Given the program hasn't been in the Big Ten Championship picture for a long long long long long time I don't think it is a loser mentality to go into year 3 willing to be content with something less then a conference title. We all want to see continued growth and improvement out of the program but that doesn't have to culminate in a Big Ten Championship this season for that improvement to have taken place.
 

MNVCGUY said:
So if they fall short of the Big Ten Championship game is the season a failure then in your eyes? The championship or bust mentality only really works at places like Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State....

Given the program hasn't been in the Big Ten Championship picture for a long long long long long time I don't think it is a loser mentality to go into year 3 willing to be content with something less then a conference title. We all want to see continued growth and improvement out of the program but that doesn't have to culminate in a Big Ten Championship this season for that improvement to have taken place.
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Yes, absolutely, 100%. And notice I didn't say win, I just said be in the B1G championship game. And there is a major difference between that mentality and an Alabama mentality of NCAA championship win or bust so not sure why you would even bring that up.

You are a loser, you have a loser mentality and that is OK with you. You are happy with being mediocre, I am not.
 

bottlebass said:
Yes, absolutely, 100%. And notice I didn't say win, I just said be in the B1G championship game. And there is a major difference between that mentality and an Alabama mentality of NCAA championship win or bust so not sure why you would even bring that up.

You are a loser, you have a loser mentality and that is OK with you. You are happy with being mediocre, I am not.
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What if we make the B1G championship game, but only because of a less than stellar win over a bad Rutgers Team. Will you still be satisfied?


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Spoofin said:
What if we make the B1G championship game, but only because of a less than stellar win over a bad Rutgers Team. Will you still be satisfied?


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Making the B1G championship game is my expectation of the season. I don't care how we get there. Well... sh!t we better beat Wisconsin again...
 

bottlebass said:
I expect the gophers in the B1G championship game this year.
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You're allowed to have unreasonable expectations.

It's not like your livelihood or anything of significance is at risk, if they don't meet them.


Maybe we could take you more serious if you put a $10,000 bet on the Gophers getting to the Big Ten CCG??
 

Gophers_4life said:
You're allowed to have unreasonable expectations.

It's not like your livelihood or anything of significance is at risk, if they don't meet them.


Maybe we could take you more serious if you put a $10,000 bet on the Gophers getting to the Big Ten CCG??
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I don't bet on sports but I don't see why betting any amount would affect what my expectations are. It is not unreasonable to have the expectation of making the B1G championship game. You think Fleck goes to the guys and says "don't even think about making the B1G championship game, our expectations need to be way lower than that because we are losers"? Quit being stupid.
 

bottlebass said:
It is not unreasonable to have the expectation of making the B1G championship game. You think Fleck goes to the guys and says "don't even think about making the B1G championship game, our expectations need to be way lower than that
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You won't admit it, but you're conflating definitions. That's the root issue of this whole argument, and why several folks around here get grumpy at the idea of a 7 win regular season this year. It doesn't excite them (and they're also impatient).

Having goals and having high targets that get you excited, are not the same definition as an expectation.


Of course Fleck, and the players, have the goal to win the conference. That's always the goal.
 

Gophers_4life said:
You won't admit it, but you're conflating definitions. That's the root issue of this whole argument, and why several folks around here get grumpy at the idea of a 7 win regular season this year. It doesn't excite them (and they're also impatient).

Having goals and having high targets that get you excited, are not the same definition as an expectation.


Of course Fleck, and the players, have the goal to win the conference. That's always the goal.
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Definition of an expectation: a strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future.
a belief that someone will or should achieve something

The goal for every season should be to win every game which would equal a national championship. That would be an unreasonable expectation at this point though. A reasonable expectation for anyone who isn't a loser like you would be to at least win the West. There is nothing unreasonable about that unless you are a loser with a loser mindset like yourself.
 

I think people are using different definitions for the word "Expectations."

I see it like this: an expectation is not what you want to happen. It's what you believe will happen, based on some analysis or a factual basis.

In my case, I would like to see the Gophers win 10 games and be in the B1G championship game. I don't expect that. I expect they will go 8-4 in the regular season. I say that because I don't expect that everything will go perfectly during the season. There will be injuries, turnovers, penalties, etc.

BUT - the key is that everyone can have different expectations, based on their own analysis of the situation. Obviously, we can't all be right. Some people's expectations will turn out to be more realistic than others. But in order to know that, they have to play the season.
 

Gophers_4life said:
You won't admit it, but you're conflating definitions. That's the root issue of this whole argument, and why several folks around here get grumpy at the idea of a 7 win regular season this year. It doesn't excite them (and they're also impatient).

Having goals and having high targets that get you excited, are not the same definition as an expectation.


<b>Of course Fleck, and the players, have the goal to win the conference. That's always the goal.</b>
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I’d be willing to bet they have that expectation too.

I expect us to win 9. Anything else will be a disappointment. Period. I fully understand the definition. Your “goal vs expectation” debate is silly at best. With this schedule, and better talent, matching 2016 seems more than reasonable to expect.

Let me help you with the actual definition of expectation....

noun
a strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future.

a belief that someone will or should achieve something.


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short ornery norwegian said:
I see it like this: an expectation is not what you want to happen. It's what you believe will happen, based on some analysis or a factual basis.

In my case, I would like to see the Gophers win 10 games and be in the B1G championship game. I don't expect that. I expect they will go 8-4 in the regular season. I say that because I don't expect that everything will go perfectly during the season. There will be injuries, turnovers, penalties, etc.
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Correct
 

Gophers_4life said:
That's what you want.

You can't expect it unless you have a logical, rational basis to back it up. Otherwise, it becomes an unreasonable expectation, in my book.
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The west is wide open this year. How is winning the west (which could happen with 9 wins) unreasonable? Do I need to list every team in the west and guess their W/L's to prove my expectation for you? You can go ahead and be a loser. I live my life a different way and I guarantee PJ has at least the same expectation as me. Why don't you go tell him his expectations are too high so he can call you a loser too.
 

bottlebass said:
The west is wide open this year. How is winning the west (which could happen with 9 wins) unreasonable? Do I need to list every team in the west and guess their W/L's to prove my expectation for you? You can go ahead and be a loser. I live my life a different way and I guarantee PJ has at least the same expectation as me. Why don't you go tell him his expectations are too high so he can call you a loser too.
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G4L is what he is. Losers are what losers do.

Minnesota is going to have a special season, regardless of what patently negative, pathetic “fans” think or say.
 


bottlebass said:
The west is wide open this year. How is winning the west (which could happen with 9 wins) unreasonable? Do I need to list every team in the west and guess their W/L's to prove my expectation for you? You can go ahead and be a loser. I live my life a different way and I guarantee PJ has at least the same expectation as me. Why don't you go tell him his expectations are too high so he can call you a loser too.
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Bass, settle down. You have every right to your point of view. But I have every right to a different point of view. That does not make me a "loser" - it just means I see things differently.

I agree that, if everything breaks right, the Gophers COULD win the West. But, in my heart of hearts, I just don't believe - or expect - that everything is going to break right. I might be wrong. Or you might be wrong.

Are we really going to go back to the stupid argument about who is a "better" fan?
 

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