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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPTMidnight View Post
    Well... not going spend time on a D!(& measuring contest. My background is on the marketing/advertising industry with similar age and success. It is clear from your statement above that you do not quite understand the buying process, psychology, or the mechanics of a life changing decision like these kids are making. People make decisions in ways they mostly do not understand (even if they fancy themselves with cold blooded logic flowing in their veins). Safety, security, fear, approval, greed, pride, escape, defiance, pleasure, fear of missing out, among others are motivators to these kids NOT great coaches, playing time, opportunity, respected programs, and academics (they want all those things but the decision is made on a deeper level)

    This is a public forum for Gopher fans. There is a time and a place for everything - including calling for a coaches job. When I see some people on the hole constantly turning every thread into Pitino bashing or injecting fear a normally positive post I am going to call "sabotage" every time. At best these people are bumbling idiots damaging their own team, at worst, they are agents provocateurs.
    Sure the things you sell work very well for your business. Have over 30 years working with kids on their families on what program look like great fits and opportunities. The vast majority picked a coach who they thought was the best coach for them, the most successful program, the right environment for them. Ask Ty Jerome why he picked UVA. Ask Jordan Taylor, ask Leuer. They picked great coach who they trusted, that brought safety, security, pride, pleasure. Picking a lesser coach and program would bring less security. Great players feel confidence in coaches that win, programs that win and that develop players. Think what you want, you have your opinion. In working with players and coaches it is very obvious what it means to them when they get those better offers. For the record, i have never called for Pitino's job. I have called for him to do it better. I simply was not made to accept mediocrity.


  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPTMidnight View Post
    It is an interesting idea. Would it work? If it were properly executed, heck yes it would work!!!

    Still, I threw it out to make a point more as anything and this level of chicanery is not my thing... Begs the question - Why do some people here do it to their own program? So disappointing, so Minnesota.
    If it would work why would hundreds of fans not do it. They often condone poor character, sham classes etc.. People often will not even put forth money to support the program and they will now fund web posting to what, derail a program they do not like or are jealous of !

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Minneapolis, MN
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    7,055

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    Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
    If it would work why would hundreds of fans not do it. They often condone poor character, sham classes etc.. People often will not even put forth money to support the program and they will now fund web posting to what, derail a program they do not like or are jealous of !
    It got Trump elected lol. We just need some bots

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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
    Sure the things you sell work very well for your business. Have over 30 years working with kids on their families on what program look like great fits and opportunities. The vast majority picked a coach who they thought was the best coach for them, the most successful program, the right environment for them. Ask Ty Jerome why he picked UVA. Ask Jordan Taylor, ask Leuer. They picked great coach who they trusted, that brought safety, security, pride, pleasure. Picking a lesser coach and program would bring less security. Great players feel confidence in coaches that win, programs that win and that develop players. Think what you want, you have your opinion. In working with players and coaches it is very obvious what it means to them when they get those better offers. For the record, i have never called for Pitino's job. I have called for him to do it better. I simply was not made to accept mediocrity.
    Part of the "right environment" or "successful program" or "best coach" or "right fit" has to do with a player's opinion of the perceived status of a program/coach or if it is "going in the right direction", etc... People's evaluation and gut feeling is based upon numerous sources of information. I once left a job where the "common knowledge" was that "all of the good people have left". It was not a major factor, but it did add some weight into the decision in that if I stay I must not be that good...

    You have said several times that player want to accept the best offer. You can call it BS, but having a constant negative drum beat about the local program does have an effect. We have heard it many times, from several GHer's, about how certain kids are "too good" to play at the U. And that the blue blood schools are so great. Well, I would like to see those blue bloods try and keep up their winning tradition if they were stocked with average P5 recruits. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

    If you don't think that social media can have an influence, then why is Russia spending so much money on the IRA creating hundreds of thousand of posts and receiving a couple of hundred million likes on false stories?

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemy2u View Post
    Part of the "right environment" or "successful program" or "best coach" or "right fit" has to do with a player's opinion of the perceived status of a program/coach or if it is "going in the right direction", etc... People's evaluation and gut feeling is based upon numerous sources of information. I once left a job where the "common knowledge" was that "all of the good people have left". It was not a major factor, but it did add some weight into the decision in that if I stay I must not be that good...

    You have said several times that player want to accept the best offer. You can call it BS, but having a constant negative drum beat about the local program does have an effect. We have heard it many times, from several GHer's, about how certain kids are "too good" to play at the U. And that the blue blood schools are so great. Well, I would like to see those blue bloods try and keep up their winning tradition if they were stocked with average P5 recruits. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

    If you don't think that social media can have an influence, then why is Russia spending so much money on the IRA creating hundreds of thousand of posts and receiving a couple of hundred million likes on false stories?
    Just sharing what recruits and families are sharing with me in face to face conversations. There is a ton of ground between blue bloods and the U. That ground is covered by dozens of coaches who have achieved a great deal of success without the top recruits. Those coaches have done it by finding and developing players at a extremely high level and prospects do not think it, they know it. Are you thinking there is no proof that guys outside the blue bloods have not proven to be a better coach then Pitino then i do not know what to tell you. Seriously, if a kid does not care about staying home and all else is equal he will pick the best coach and the best program. I know what they say when such and such offer comes in. These coaches have sent numerous non all american, non 5 star kids to the NBA, have won conference titles, been to final 4's, won national titles. Guys that win multiple national coach of the year awards are not only percieved to be better coaches, they are better coaches. Me saying that has zero influence on recruits not coming here. When asked, i have recommended kids to go to the U when i thought it was the best fit. Others i have suggested playing down so they could play as a starter 4 years and others that actually wanted the best academics to accept Stanford. Others still to wait to see if the coaches they admired most would come calling. They are the ones putting in the effort and they deserve to decide on the situation they want most. I thought the U was the best place for Hoff, Gabe,Mason.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Reality, USA
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    8,941

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    Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
    If it would work why would hundreds of fans not do it. They often condone poor character, sham classes etc.. People often will not even put forth money to support the program and they will now fund web posting to what, derail a program they do not like or are jealous of !
    You condone duke unc etc etc as the best places. Because their coaches are so great.

    Their coaches cheat. You continue to accept and encourage kids to attend these great places due to their coaches.

    Their cheating coaches.

    Pick a side built.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
    Just sharing what recruits and families are sharing with me in face to face conversations. There is a ton of ground between blue bloods and the U. That ground is covered by dozens of coaches who have achieved a great deal of success without the top recruits. Those coaches have done it by finding and developing players at a extremely high level and prospects do not think it, they know it. Are you thinking there is no proof that guys outside the blue bloods have not proven to be a better coach then Pitino then i do not know what to tell you. Seriously, if a kid does not care about staying home and all else is equal he will pick the best coach and the best program. I know what they say when such and such offer comes in. These coaches have sent numerous non all american, non 5 star kids to the NBA, have won conference titles, been to final 4's, won national titles. Guys that win multiple national coach of the year awards are not only percieved to be better coaches, they are better coaches. Me saying that has zero influence on recruits not coming here. When asked, i have recommended kids to go to the U when i thought it was the best fit. Others i have suggested playing down so they could play as a starter 4 years and others that actually wanted the best academics to accept Stanford. Others still to wait to see if the coaches they admired most would come calling. They are the ones putting in the effort and they deserve to decide on the situation they want most. I thought the U was the best place for Hoff, Gabe,Mason.
    That is reasonable and is the right thing to do. I am not blind to think the U is the best option for every player.

    The frustration lies in getting the good local players to give the U a chance. No coach in their 30’s, with only a handful of years as a head coach, is going to be able to complete with guys that win multiple national championships, etc... the jury is still out on Pitino, many of us seem to see much more potential. This year will be a good indication of how good of a coach he is.


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  8. #68

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    The age thing is so lame and the apologist's crutch. It's not like a 35-year-old coach (Bobby Knight) won a national title with perhaps the greatest college basketball team ever assembled. Or that a 39-year-old (Mike Krzyzewski) took his team to the first of 12 Final Fours. Or that a 33-year-old (Brad Stevens) took fricking Butler to consecutive Final Fours. Nope, those things never happened. Any coach under the age of 40 should be lucky to just pluck along and get whatever meager accomplishments he gets - particularly those who are paid millions of dollars per year to coach at a major athletics program with a nine-figure annual budget. And the fans of those programs should be grateful for whatever those sub-40 coaches manage to accomplish on their training wheels.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Columbia Heights
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    235

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    Quote Originally Posted by dpodoll68 View Post
    The age thing is so lame and the apologist's crutch. It's not like a 35-year-old coach (Bobby Knight) won a national title with perhaps the greatest college basketball team ever assembled. Or that a 39-year-old (Mike Krzyzewski) took his team to the first of 12 Final Fours. Or that a 33-year-old (Brad Stevens) took fricking Butler to consecutive Final Fours. Nope, those things never happened. Any coach under the age of 40 should be lucky to just pluck along and get whatever meager accomplishments he gets - particularly those who are paid millions of dollars per year to coach at a major athletics program with a nine-figure annual budget. And the fans of those programs should be grateful for whatever those sub-40 coaches manage to accomplish on their training wheels.
    I mean you just mentioned 3 all time legendary coaches who obviously exceeded normal expectations at a very young age. Pitino is on a more realistic career arc, he may not have achieved extreme success right away, but if he can continue to build on the momentum he has been generating it will be well worth it in the long run. If he regresses over the next 2 seasons, hopefully there will be a viable option available to replace him.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
    If it would work why would hundreds of fans not do it. They often condone poor character, sham classes etc. People often will not even put forth money to support the program and they will now fund web posting to what, derail a program they do not like or are jealous of !
    Because they couldn't do it, or like me - they wouldn't do it.

    Misleading comments about your competitor, Negative feedback on their products, outright slander, this stuff is all over the internet. There are entire companies devoted to tracking and fixing it. Now you are just being difficult.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
    Sure the things you sell work very well for your business. Have over 30 years working with kids on their families on what program look like great fits and opportunities. The vast majority picked a coach who they thought was the best coach for them, the most successful program, the right environment for them. Ask Ty Jerome why he picked UVA. Ask Jordan Taylor, ask Leuer. They picked great coach who they trusted, that brought safety, security, pride, pleasure. Picking a lesser coach and program would bring less security. Great players feel confidence in coaches that win, programs that win and that develop players. Think what you want, you have your opinion. In working with players and coaches it is very obvious what it means to them when they get those better offers. For the record, i have never called for Pitino's job. I have called for him to do it better. I simply was not made to accept mediocrity.
    Cmon, old timer.

    Apparently I have not been able explain it so far - decision making 101 class is now closed.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPTMidnight View Post
    Cmon, old timer.

    Apparently I have not been able explain it so far - decision making 101 class is now closed.
    Insults is what you have ? Age shots ? Go color of my skin, or should we do income ? What experience do you have scouting and recruiting 16-18 year olds and giving advice to families when asked ? I am only sharing actual feedback to questions they have. Most kids have zero doubts about who they think is the best coach that has offered. Just give one example of a single situation that you played any role in how they went about gathering information and making a decision.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarnBurner View Post
    You condone duke unc etc etc as the best places. Because their coaches are so great.

    Their coaches cheat. You continue to accept and encourage kids to attend these great places due to their coaches.

    Their cheating coaches.

    Pick a side built.
    Where did i say UNC is a place a kid should go. What evidence is there that Duke cheats, i can not stand how they do business but kids dream of that chance to play for K, that Brand at at one of the best schools anywhere. I suggest Stanford to any kid that has the chance to go there. I have yet to suggest a Minnesota kid to UVA partly because they have not been offered. They scout and recruit to a specific kind of kid that fits their entire culture. There are kids that come from here that fit but are not attainable. There are two here now that want UVA but they are full. I care that kids go where they want, not what i want. I can not stand Arizona for rampant cheating, love Villanova for great coaching and a very cool culture. There have been local kids here who wanted UW because they thought Ryan was a better coach by miles over anyone we ever had and they were right. If staying home was a priority for someone then they should stay home. Getting offers from the hometown school is different than getting one from a dream school. UVA loses nearly every instate kid to Duke, UNC so they find kids from anywhere that fit and win. Jerome was late 200's when 1st offered and those scum services adjust him up on offer and then commit dates. He ends up doing better on and off the court than 99% of his class. Hunter 80th, Brogdon 80th, Harris 135 and on and on. Damn, Mychal Thompson wanted his son to play for him at WSU because they were first and he thought his son would get the best coaching, did not even hesitate. I love it when Coffey picked here, Gabe, Oturu. Simply awesome. But at sometime you either win big or you do not and the greatest indicator of great success early in the number of years you coached not your birthday. There are dozens that this is true for and few if any that achieved greatness if they did not do something spectacular early. Pitino could do it now, i am cheering for him to do it now. But when asked who the best coaches are in my mind i am not going to lie. When these kids Labron James bragging on K it makes a huge impression. When MJ shows up at a UNC shoot around it makes a impression. Set up your program with a identity in mind, a brand and then get those kids no matter where they are from. Posts about if kids would just stay home and we would be unstoppable are not well thought out. Ton of states produce a lot better high school talent then Minnesota and they do not stay instate either. You earn your chops by finding guys that win as a team and doing that year after year. Never said it was easy because i have seen it up close when it starts and it is hard. Finding truly gifted coaches is very rare. Win a conference title now or at least contend, finish ahead of UW once.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by builtbadgers View Post
    Insults is what you have ? Age shots ? Go color of my skin, or should we do income ? What experience do you have scouting and recruiting 16-18 year olds and giving advice to families when asked ? I am only sharing actual feedback to questions they have. Most kids have zero doubts about who they think is the best coach that has offered. Just give one example of a single situation that you played any role in how they went about gathering information and making a decision.
    If you remember I told you I am the same age as you so... Are you really the age you say you are because this is getting a little juvenile. You really playing the victim here?

    I am having my doubts now that your story adds up.

    Expert on recruiting providing sage advice to basketball phenoms, Mature legal mind, fan of Gophers, spends his time online complaining about Gophers leadership and players, knows that no teenage Gopher recruits use online news aggregator/forums to stay current with teams. About sum it up?

    Ever used your broad set skill in support of the Gophs? how about the Badgers?

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPTMidnight View Post
    If you remember I told you I am the same age as you so... Are you really the age you say you are because this is getting a little juvenile. You really playing the victim here?

    I am having my doubts now that your story adds up.

    Expert on recruiting providing sage advice to basketball phenoms, Mature legal mind, fan of Gophers, spends his time online complaining about Gophers leadership and players, knows that no teenage Gopher recruits use online news aggregator/forums to stay current with teams. About sum it up?

    Ever used your broad set skill in support of the Gophs? how about the Badgers?
    Nearing 80. Never said it was sage advice. I have missed evaluations, never claimed to be some superior poster. There is no such thing as a recruiting expert. Several advanced reports on former UW players, several more that i thought were reaches and the took them anyway. But from the players side i do know what they are looking for because it is the first question they asked. I have never been asked by any staff here for any evaluations and i am pretty sure they felt they had that covered. For the most part i think the talent brought in has been pretty damn good, that is not the largest issue. These are my opinions. I gave the opinion that i thought given all that Hoffarber was looking for, given his other offers that this was his best fit. The boards are for different opinions, nothing else. If you prefer meeting me for coffee, if your near my age you have the time, i would be more than happy to show you the credentials, the form for evaluations, the family questionaire the pay stubs. You bring some evidence that you know why players pick schools. There should be a few examples you can provide. I am going off a data base on what attracts players to coaches, schools and programs. Every kid is different, some kids actually want academics, some want location, some want a storied brand, nearly all believe that the coach they commit too is someone who has a vision that appeals to the player. I could and have written about all the virtues the U offers. I am just not of the mind that this is the best public University in the country or that it has one of the best coaches. I have praised this staff, especially now for things they have done well. Remember, i am offering my opinion on what i see. I am very comfortable if someone is seeing it differently than i do. That is their right as a fan to pick exactly what they think is great, good, mediocre or poor. Only one thing unites all fans, winning it all. Hell even a final 4 will leave someone disgruntled. I am not asking for that. Iam asking for a identity, the thing a program is known for. Offense, shooting, fundamentals, defense . Anyone of those that you can hang your hat on everyday. Then to contend for a conference title, even win one. Those are my expectations for this program and i have a opinion on how i think it should be done. Along with that i am still cheering for that to happen now. I have never once posted that i am done, fire Pitino etc.. Perhaps it is best to agree on the one thing we can, that both of us want the Gophers to win. How we go about that is simply different.

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