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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    At what point do we run out of excuses for Richard? Good program lose guys to graduation and the NBA. It's time for him to be prepared.
    I am not making excuses, I am dealing in reality, the reality is he's not getting fired unless the bottom falls out. It's weird that you can be such a Flecksexual on the football board when he hasn't done anything near what Pitino has over there yet, but Elite, Howpher, Culture and Stuff

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  2. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by bemidjigopher View Post
    I am not making excuses, I am dealing in reality, the reality is he's not getting fired unless the bottom falls out. It's weird that you can be such a Flecksexual on the football board when he hasn't done anything near what Pitino has over there yet, but Elite, Howpher, Culture and Stuff

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    I thought it was a Fleckite? You should hurry and get the rights to "Flexsexual."

    The differences between Fleck and Pitino are pretty clear. Fleck just finished his 2nd season and had one of the most impressive ends to a season in my lifetime. Won 3 of the last 4, including blowouts of Wisky in Madison and GT in the Bowl Game. He is recruiting at a much higher level than what we've seen in the past, and optimism for his 3rd year is extremely high. Most people are expecting the football team to have one of the best regular season records in the past 40+ years.

    As for Richard, after six seasons he has the same number of NCAA wins that Fleck has bowl wins. He's had 2 of the 6 worst seasons in the history of the basketball program and a conference record that is among the worst of any coach we've had. We're now told not to expect too much for the 2019-2020 season - I've seen predictions between 8th and 13th in the B1G.

    Someone had a great post a few months ago - Richard is like the sign "Free Beer Tomorrow."

  3. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I thought it was a Fleckite? You should hurry and get the rights to "Flexsexual."

    The differences between Fleck and Pitino are pretty clear. Fleck just finished his 2nd season and had one of the most impressive ends to a season in my lifetime. Won 3 of the last 4, including blowouts of Wisky in Madison and GT in the Bowl Game. He is recruiting at a much higher level than what we've seen in the past, and optimism for his 3rd year is extremely high. Most people are expecting the football team to have one of the best regular season records in the past 40+ years.

    As for Richard, after six seasons he has the same number of NCAA wins that Fleck has bowl wins. He's had 2 of the 6 worst seasons in the history of the basketball program and a conference record that is among the worst of any coach we've had. We're now told not to expect too much for the 2019-2020 season - I've seen predictions between 8th and 13th in the B1G.

    Someone had a great post a few months ago - Richard is like the sign "Free Beer Tomorrow."
    Anyone arguing that Richards numbers are good would be wrong, however it's the trajectory. We were not projected to be a tournament team 3 years ago either by most analysts, but we ended up a 4 seed. Writers will give this team a poor grade because of the unknown. They only know what we lost. Richard made some huge mistakes right away and he's had to repair them. In my eyes he is on the right track and I expect an NCAA birth again this year barring catastrophic injuries like 2 years ago. This team will be different, but will defend well and have significantly better outside shooting which should open things up for Daniel down low. Besides Mich State, no team in the big ten really scares me. I think it will be a crapshoot, but I still believe the gophers will be in the 5-8 range at worst.

  4. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by manderson1984 View Post
    Anyone arguing that Richards numbers are good would be wrong, however it's the trajectory. We were not projected to be a tournament team 3 years ago either by most analysts, but we ended up a 4 seed. Writers will give this team a poor grade because of the unknown. They only know what we lost. Richard made some huge mistakes right away and he's had to repair them. In my eyes he is on the right track and I expect an NCAA birth again this year barring catastrophic injuries like 2 years ago. This team will be different, but will defend well and have significantly better outside shooting which should open things up for Daniel down low. Besides Mich State, no team in the big ten really scares me. I think it will be a crapshoot, but I still believe the gophers will be in the 5-8 range at worst.
    An NCAA berth would be terrific and possible but I really don't know how anyone could say with confidence that the incoming team "should" do that. It's reasonable to assume that this team will have more depth than most of Pitino's past teams but we've assumed that before and have been wrong.

    A "trajectory" has not been established and anyone making that claim simply is giving a hopeful reading of tea leaves. One must have at least two good or decent years in a row to discern that. If Pitino has a decent-to-good year this year then maybe we can claim that there is a trajectory. A lot depends upon the collective performance of this year's freshmen and the quality of next year's recruits.

  5. #170

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    People bitching and moaning about Pitino...take it somewhere else. I come here to see if there is more discussion about Bryan Greenlee and instead I get people bitching about something else.
    Moderators, please delete the conversations that have nothing to do with Bryan Greenlee.

  6. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbfbp View Post
    An NCAA berth would be terrific and possible but I really don't know how anyone could say with confidence that the incoming team "should" do that. It's reasonable to assume that this team will have more depth than most of Pitino's past teams but we've assumed that before and have been wrong.

    A "trajectory" has not been established and anyone making that claim simply is giving a hopeful reading of tea leaves. One must have at least two good or decent years in a row to discern that. If Pitino has a decent-to-good year this year then maybe we can claim that there is a trajectory. A lot depends upon the collective performance of this year's freshmen and the quality of next year's recruits.
    I stated that in "my eyes" I see a positive. It'd be 3 good years in a row barring the injuries two years ago, so I give him a pass on that. I don't for his earlier recruiting errors and roster mistakes. In my eyes he's had 2 good years and 3 good recruiting classes out of 4. I'm aware this one is up for debate, I like seeing guys like Tre Williams, Gabe, and Greenlee come in. My assumption or belief that this team can be an NCAA tourney team is of as much knowledge of the situation as you have that they won't be good.

    Greenlee's past tells us he will be a good citizen and hard worker. This will only help our culture and continue us upward imo.

  7. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    People bitching and moaning about Pitino...take it somewhere else. I come here to see if there is more discussion about Bryan Greenlee and instead I get people bitching about something else.
    Moderators, please delete the conversations that have nothing to do with Bryan Greenlee.
    Yes, please. Ban the bitchers. Put them under a bridge somewhere, or at least lock them in their own thread so I don’t have to smell their bile.


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  8. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by manderson1984 View Post
    My assumption or belief that this team can be an NCAA tourney team is of as much knowledge of the situation as you have that they won't be good.

    Greenlee's past tells us he will be a good citizen and hard worker. This will only help our culture and continue us upward imo.
    You're reading something into my comments that isn't there. I never said they wouldn't be good. I just said there isn't enough knowledge base at this point to assume that they would be very good. I really don't understand why some of you guys insist on being super optimists. No one is going to give you a reward for that if they do turn out to be pretty good. If you're doing that just for the social acceptance of other perennial pollyannas, well, then that's just flat out pathetic.

    "Greenlee's past tells us he will be a good citizen and hard worker." Who the hell said he wasn't? Try to stay focused here.

    I've heard this argument before: "We were on a trajectory until that year with the injuries." Every time I hear that, it sounds like a shared rubbish talking point. A good year, followed by a terrible year, followed by a reasonably successful year that was helped a great deal by the committee deciding to take 8 Big Ten teams doesn't appear to be a trajectory. The reason Pitino's teams go to hell in a handbasket whenever there is a significant injury is because he has failed consistently to develop an effective bench throughout his tenure and prefers to squeeze every ounce of possible performance from his top horses. From where I sit, that is a much clearer theme than any "trajectory." He does appear to have some potential for quality depth this year. Let's hope he develops it. Perhaps having fewer top dogs could be a blessing in disguise.

  9. #174
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    Greenlee may surprise a lot of doubters. Just wait and see.
    Welcome to Badger Road Kill Country!

  10. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbfbp View Post
    You're reading something into my comments that isn't there. I never said they wouldn't be good. I just said there isn't enough knowledge base at this point to assume that they would be very good. I really don't understand why some of you guys insist on being super optimists. No one is going to give you a reward for that if they do turn out to be pretty good. If you're doing that just for the social acceptance of other perennial pollyannas, well, then that's just flat out pathetic.

    "Greenlee's past tells us he will be a good citizen and hard worker." Who the hell said he wasn't? Try to stay focused here.

    I've heard this argument before: "We were on a trajectory until that year with the injuries." Every time I hear that, it sounds like a shared rubbish talking point. A good year, followed by a terrible year, followed by a reasonably successful year that was helped a great deal by the committee deciding to take 8 Big Ten teams doesn't appear to be a trajectory. The reason Pitino's teams go to hell in a handbasket whenever there is a significant injury is because he has failed consistently to develop an effective bench throughout his tenure and prefers to squeeze every ounce of possible performance from his top horses. From where I sit, that is a much clearer theme than any "trajectory." He does appear to have some potential for quality depth this year. Let's hope he develops it. Perhaps having fewer top dogs could be a blessing in disguise.
    I'm was just stating my belief that we are on an upward. You are more than entitled to believe they are not. Agree I'm being optimistic, but I believe our staff in place is better at player development than our former two assistants. I also think we will see the benefits of better facilities, but of course I'm guessing. Never said I wasn't and there are no medals for being pessimistic either. As far as depth, 4-5 teams in the country had great depth in college basketball last year. The transfer market has made it remarkably hard to develop depth and hitting on under the radar kids is the way I think we could it. I'm also aware it can backfire.

    My mention of Greenlee at the end of my post was to bring a thread dedicated to him back to him. Apologize for the lack of focus.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbfbp View Post
    You're reading something into my comments that isn't there. I never said they wouldn't be good. I just said there isn't enough knowledge base at this point to assume that they would be very good. I really don't understand why some of you guys insist on being super optimists. No one is going to give you a reward for that if they do turn out to be pretty good. If you're doing that just for the social acceptance of other perennial pollyannas, well, then that's just flat out pathetic.

    "Greenlee's past tells us he will be a good citizen and hard worker." Who the hell said he wasn't? Try to stay focused here.

    I've heard this argument before: "We were on a trajectory until that year with the injuries." Every time I hear that, it sounds like a shared rubbish talking point. A good year, followed by a terrible year, followed by a reasonably successful year that was helped a great deal by the committee deciding to take 8 Big Ten teams doesn't appear to be a trajectory. The reason Pitino's teams go to hell in a handbasket whenever there is a significant injury is because he has failed consistently to develop an effective bench throughout his tenure and prefers to squeeze every ounce of possible performance from his top horses. From where I sit, that is a much clearer theme than any "trajectory." He does appear to have some potential for quality depth this year. Let's hope he develops it. Perhaps having fewer top dogs could be a blessing in disguise.
    Perhaps people are optimistic about gopher recruits because they're fans of the gophers. Seems like a difficult concept on the surface. Just like participation trophies aren't given out for being "right" about under the radar recruits panning out. They're not handed out for the easy guess of them not panning out either.

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