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Thread: Culture War

  1. #1

    Default Culture War

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/21/o...e-problem.html

    Great read from before the election, and very prescient. While the progs view voter's reaction as proof of a rampant racist society, Douthat explains why that's not so and what's really going on.

    Looking back, it really seems like this nails it. A few excerpts:

    'The culture industry has always tilted leftward, but the swing toward social liberalism among younger Americans and the simultaneous surge of activist energy on the left have created a new dynamic, in which areas once considered relatively apolitical now have (or are being pushed to have) an overtly left-wing party line.

    Meanwhile, institutions that were seen as outside or sideways to political debate have been enlisted in the culture war. The tabloid industry gave us the apotheosis of Caitlyn Jenner, and ESPN gave her its Arthur Ashe Award. The N.B.A., N.C.A.A. and the A.C.C. — nobody’s idea of progressive forces, usually — are acting as enforcers on behalf of gay and transgender rights. Jock culture remains relatively reactionary, but even the N.F.L. is having its Black Lives Matters moment, thanks to Colin Kaepernick.

    For the left, these are clear signs of cultural gains, cultural victory. But the scale and swiftness of those victories have created two distinctive political problems for the Democratic Party.

    First, within the liberal tent, they have dramatically raised expectations for just how far left our politics can move, while insulating many liberals from the harsh realities of political disagreement in a sprawling, 300-plus million person republic.

    Among millennials, especially, there’s a growing constituency for whom right-wing ideas are so alien or triggering, left-wing orthodoxy so pervasive and unquestioned, that supporting a candidate like Hillary Clinton looks like a needless form of compromise.

    Thus Clinton’s peculiar predicament. She has moved further left than any modern Democratic nominee...Yet she still finds herself battling an insurgency on her left flank, and somewhat desperately pitching millennials on her ideological bona fides.

    Trump is out to “upend the culture” — but in this case it’s the culture of institutionalized political correctness and John Oliver explaining the news to you, forever.

    Something like this happened once before: In the 1960s and 1970s, the culture shifted decisively leftward, but American voters shifted to the right and answered a cultural revolution with a political Thermidor.

    But it remains an advantage for the G.O.P., and a liability for the Democratic Party, that the new cultural orthodoxy is sufficiently stifling to leave many Americans looking to the voting booth as a way to register dissent.'


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/21/o...e-problem.html

    Great read from before the election, and very prescient. While the progs view voter's reaction as proof of a rampant racist society, Douthat explains why that's not so and what's really going on.

    Looking back, it really seems like this nails it. A few excerpts:

    'The culture industry has always tilted leftward, but the swing toward social liberalism among younger Americans and the simultaneous surge of activist energy on the left have created a new dynamic, in which areas once considered relatively apolitical now have (or are being pushed to have) an overtly left-wing party line.

    Meanwhile, institutions that were seen as outside or sideways to political debate have been enlisted in the culture war. The tabloid industry gave us the apotheosis of Caitlyn Jenner, and ESPN gave her its Arthur Ashe Award. The N.B.A., N.C.A.A. and the A.C.C. — nobody’s idea of progressive forces, usually — are acting as enforcers on behalf of gay and transgender rights. Jock culture remains relatively reactionary, but even the N.F.L. is having its Black Lives Matters moment, thanks to Colin Kaepernick.

    For the left, these are clear signs of cultural gains, cultural victory. But the scale and swiftness of those victories have created two distinctive political problems for the Democratic Party.

    First, within the liberal tent, they have dramatically raised expectations for just how far left our politics can move, while insulating many liberals from the harsh realities of political disagreement in a sprawling, 300-plus million person republic.

    Among millennials, especially, there’s a growing constituency for whom right-wing ideas are so alien or triggering, left-wing orthodoxy so pervasive and unquestioned, that supporting a candidate like Hillary Clinton looks like a needless form of compromise.

    Thus Clinton’s peculiar predicament. She has moved further left than any modern Democratic nominee...Yet she still finds herself battling an insurgency on her left flank, and somewhat desperately pitching millennials on her ideological bona fides.

    Trump is out to “upend the culture” — but in this case it’s the culture of institutionalized political correctness and John Oliver explaining the news to you, forever.

    Something like this happened once before: In the 1960s and 1970s, the culture shifted decisively leftward, but American voters shifted to the right and answered a cultural revolution with a political Thermidor.

    But it remains an advantage for the G.O.P., and a liability for the Democratic Party, that the new cultural orthodoxy is sufficiently stifling to leave many Americans looking to the voting booth as a way to register dissent.'
    Leave off the last paragraph and he's pretty much correct. That last paragraph is extremely debatable. The GOP has won a majority of the vote for the presidency twice in 30 years. The voting base is getting smaller but more monolithic. That's a losing hand for the long-term. Texas, Georgia, and Arizona are on the precipice of being split party states or even blue states. Arizona is already there. Trump is in a very tough spot for reelection.

    The non-presidential elections have been very predictable and do not support that paragraph.

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    Trump isn't in a really tough spot. Not like the R party which is making all the wrong moves but not as totally self destructive as the Ds are. Our national education system has completely deteriorated is primarily to blame for the incredibly poor performance of our youth's thinking patterns. The breakdown in the media has presented the Rs with the chance to heal itself. We shall see what they do.
    Kingdom Warriors

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/03/o...?module=inline

    For much of the 20th century, young and old people voted pretty similarly. The defining gaps in our recent politics have been the gender gap (women preferring Democrats) and the education gap. But now the generation gap is back, with a vengeance.

    This is most immediately evident in the way Democrats are sorting themselves in their early primary preferences. A Democratic voter’s race, sex or education level doesn’t predict which candidate he or she is leaning toward, but age does.

    In one early New Hampshire poll, Joe Biden won 39 percent of the vote of those over 55, but just 22 percent of those under 35, trailing Bernie Sanders. Similarly, in an early Iowa poll, Biden won 41 percent of the oldster vote, but just 17 percent of the young adult vote, placing third, behind Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

    As Ronald Brownstein pointed out in The Atlantic, older Democrats prefer a more moderate candidate who they think can win. Younger Democrats prefer a more progressive candidate who they think can bring systemic change.

    The generation gap is even more powerful when it comes to Republicans. To put it bluntly, young adults hate them.

    In 2018, voters under 30 supported Democratic House candidates over Republican ones by an astounding 67 percent to 32 percent. A 2018 Pew survey found that 59 percent of millennial voters identify as Democrats or lean Democratic, while only 32 percent identify as Republicans or lean Republican.

    The difference is ideological. According to Pew, 57 percent of millennials call themselves consistently liberal or mostly liberal. Only 12 percent call themselves consistently conservative or mostly conservative. This is the most important statistic in American politics right now.

    Recent surveys of Generation Z voters (those born after 1996) find that, if anything, they are even more liberal than millennials.

    In 2002, John B. Judis and Ruy Teixeira wrote a book called “The Emerging Democratic Majority,” which predicted electoral doom for the G.O.P. based on demographic data. That prediction turned out to be wrong, or at least wildly premature.

    The authors did not foresee how older white voters would swing over to the Republican side and the way many assimilated Hispanics would vote like non-Hispanic whites. The failure of that book’s predictions has scared people off from making demographic forecasts.

    But it’s hard to look at the generational data and not see long-term disaster for Republicans. Some people think generations get more conservative as they age, but that is not borne out by the evidence. Moreover, today’s generation gap is not based just on temporary intellectual postures. It is based on concrete, lived experience that is never going to go away.

    Unlike the Silent Generation and the boomers, millennials and Gen Z voters live with difference every single day. Only 16 percent of the Silent Generation is minority, but 44 percent of the millennial generation is. If you are a millennial in California, Texas, Florida, Arizona or New Jersey, ethnic minorities make up more than half of your age cohort. In just over two decades, America will be a majority-minority country.

    Young voters approve of these trends. Seventy-nine percent of millennials think immigration is good for America. Sixty-one percent think racial diversity is good for America.

    They have constructed an ethos that is mostly about dealing with difference. They are much more sympathetic to those who identify as transgender. They are much more likely than other groups to say that racial discrimination is the main barrier to black progress. They are much less likely to say the U.S. is the best country in the world.

    These days the Republican Party looks like a direct reaction against this ethos — against immigration, against diversity, against pluralism. Moreover, conservative thought seems to be getting less relevant to the America that is coming into being.

    Matthew Continetti recently identified the key blocs on the new right in an essay in The Washington Free Beacon. These included the Jacksonians (pugilistic populists), the Paleos (Tucker Carlson-style economic nationalists), the Post-Liberals (people who oppose pluralism and seek a return to pre-Enlightenment orthodoxy). To most young adults, these tendencies will look like cloud cuckooland.

    The most burning question for conservatives should be: What do we have to say to young adults and about the diverse world they are living in? Instead, conservative intellectuals seem hellbent on taking their 12 percent share among the young and turning it to 3.

    There is a conservative way to embrace pluralism and diversity. It’s to point out that there is a deep strain of pessimism in progressive multiculturalism: blacks and whites will never really understand each other; racism is endemic; the American project is fatally flawed; American structures are so oppressive, the only option is to burn them down.

    A better multiculturalism would be optimistic: We can communicate across difference; the American creed is the right recipe for a thick and respectful pluralism; American structures are basically sound and can be realistically reformed.

    So far that’s not visible. My mentor William F. Buckley vowed to stand athwart history yelling “Stop!” Today’s Republicans don’t even seem to see the train that is running them over.

  5. #5

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    TX Gov has had a lot of these tweets lately. Simple, can't believe many on the left or right oppose. We need about 20 years of government officials doing NOTHING BUT rolling back stupid laws and regs.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthSeeker View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/03/o...?module=inline

    For much of the 20th century, young and old people voted pretty similarly. The defining gaps in our recent politics have been the gender gap (women preferring Democrats) and the education gap. But now the generation gap is back, with a vengeance.

    This is most immediately evident in the way Democrats are sorting themselves in their early primary preferences. A Democratic voter’s race, sex or education level doesn’t predict which candidate he or she is leaning toward, but age does.

    In one early New Hampshire poll, Joe Biden won 39 percent of the vote of those over 55, but just 22 percent of those under 35, trailing Bernie Sanders. Similarly, in an early Iowa poll, Biden won 41 percent of the oldster vote, but just 17 percent of the young adult vote, placing third, behind Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

    As Ronald Brownstein pointed out in The Atlantic, older Democrats prefer a more moderate candidate who they think can win. Younger Democrats prefer a more progressive candidate who they think can bring systemic change.

    The generation gap is even more powerful when it comes to Republicans. To put it bluntly, young adults hate them.

    In 2018, voters under 30 supported Democratic House candidates over Republican ones by an astounding 67 percent to 32 percent. A 2018 Pew survey found that 59 percent of millennial voters identify as Democrats or lean Democratic, while only 32 percent identify as Republicans or lean Republican.

    The difference is ideological. According to Pew, 57 percent of millennials call themselves consistently liberal or mostly liberal. Only 12 percent call themselves consistently conservative or mostly conservative. This is the most important statistic in American politics right now.

    Recent surveys of Generation Z voters (those born after 1996) find that, if anything, they are even more liberal than millennials.

    In 2002, John B. Judis and Ruy Teixeira wrote a book called “The Emerging Democratic Majority,” which predicted electoral doom for the G.O.P. based on demographic data. That prediction turned out to be wrong, or at least wildly premature.

    The authors did not foresee how older white voters would swing over to the Republican side and the way many assimilated Hispanics would vote like non-Hispanic whites. The failure of that book’s predictions has scared people off from making demographic forecasts.

    But it’s hard to look at the generational data and not see long-term disaster for Republicans. Some people think generations get more conservative as they age, but that is not borne out by the evidence. Moreover, today’s generation gap is not based just on temporary intellectual postures. It is based on concrete, lived experience that is never going to go away.

    Unlike the Silent Generation and the boomers, millennials and Gen Z voters live with difference every single day. Only 16 percent of the Silent Generation is minority, but 44 percent of the millennial generation is. If you are a millennial in California, Texas, Florida, Arizona or New Jersey, ethnic minorities make up more than half of your age cohort. In just over two decades, America will be a majority-minority country.

    Young voters approve of these trends. Seventy-nine percent of millennials think immigration is good for America. Sixty-one percent think racial diversity is good for America.

    They have constructed an ethos that is mostly about dealing with difference. They are much more sympathetic to those who identify as transgender. They are much more likely than other groups to say that racial discrimination is the main barrier to black progress. They are much less likely to say the U.S. is the best country in the world.

    These days the Republican Party looks like a direct reaction against this ethos — against immigration, against diversity, against pluralism. Moreover, conservative thought seems to be getting less relevant to the America that is coming into being.

    Matthew Continetti recently identified the key blocs on the new right in an essay in The Washington Free Beacon. These included the Jacksonians (pugilistic populists), the Paleos (Tucker Carlson-style economic nationalists), the Post-Liberals (people who oppose pluralism and seek a return to pre-Enlightenment orthodoxy). To most young adults, these tendencies will look like cloud cuckooland.

    The most burning question for conservatives should be: What do we have to say to young adults and about the diverse world they are living in? Instead, conservative intellectuals seem hellbent on taking their 12 percent share among the young and turning it to 3.

    There is a conservative way to embrace pluralism and diversity. It’s to point out that there is a deep strain of pessimism in progressive multiculturalism: blacks and whites will never really understand each other; racism is endemic; the American project is fatally flawed; American structures are so oppressive, the only option is to burn them down.

    A better multiculturalism would be optimistic: We can communicate across difference; the American creed is the right recipe for a thick and respectful pluralism; American structures are basically sound and can be realistically reformed.

    So far that’s not visible. My mentor William F. Buckley vowed to stand athwart history yelling “Stop!” Today’s Republicans don’t even seem to see the train that is running them over.
    Hard to argue with anything said here. You have to give the GOP some credit, though. Instead of changing their message to win the battle of ideas, they changed the rules through voter suppression and the like enough to forestall their decline for several years at least.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by howeda7 View Post
    Hard to argue with anything said here. You have to give the GOP some credit, though. Instead of changing their message to win the battle of ideas, they changed the rules through voter suppression and the like enough to forestall their decline for several years at least.
    You've evolved to the point where I am seriously starting to think this is a bit. Just can't be legit
    - Respect is the ultimate currency

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by howeda7 View Post
    Hard to argue with anything said here. You have to give the GOP some credit, though. Instead of changing their message to win the battle of ideas, they changed the rules through voter suppression and the like enough to forestall their decline for several years at least.
    Oh, you forgot Fox News deceiving the public.

    Requiring an ID to vote is just too damn much to ask. Or notifying people that you won’t be registered if you haven’t voted in 12 years, yeah, that’s too much to ask too.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerGopherFan View Post
    Oh, you forgot Fox News deceiving the public.

    Requiring an ID to vote is just too damn much to ask. Or notifying people that you won’t be registered if you haven’t voted in 12 years, yeah, that’s too much to ask too.
    It never ceases to amaze me just how easily people want to give this away. Try going to any number of other countries, maybe Norway or Australia or something, and see how easy it is gain citizenship and the right to vote.

    I've said it before, this is a 100% purely partisan issue. I can absolutely guarantee you without question that if a massive majority of the questionable voters or the ones that find it just too hard to acquire a legit ID were voting GOP, the Libs would be all over the issue of voter ID, controlling the borders, etc.
    - Respect is the ultimate currency

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogee Oglethorpe View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me just how easily people want to give this away. Try going to any number of other countries, maybe Norway or Australia or something, and see how easy it is gain citizenship and the right to vote.

    I've said it before, this is a 100% purely partisan issue. I can absolutely guarantee you without question that if a massive majority of the questionable voters or the ones that find it just too hard to acquire a legit ID were voting GOP, the Libs would be all over the issue of voter ID, controlling the borders, etc.
    I don't think you're off base. The script would flip for both parties. With that said, it's better to have more people vote than less. The default should be to encourage as many citizens as possible to vote.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gopherguy0723 View Post
    I don't think you're off base. The script would flip for both parties. With that said, it's better to have more verifiably legitimate voters vote than less. The default should be to encourage as many citizens as possible to vote.
    FIFY

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogee Oglethorpe View Post
    You've evolved to the point where I am seriously starting to think this is a bit. Just can't be legit
    The gop just wonít change their message to win the battle of ideas. Just think about that sentence for a second. Howie lost his mind with the election of Trump. Heís broken. Itís not a bit.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gopherguy0723 View Post
    I don't think you're off base. The script would flip for both parties. With that said, it's better to have more people vote than less. The default should be to encourage as many citizens as possible to vote.
    Is there truly a logical reason why more voters is better? Do you think the people who donít vote today are well informed and educated on the issues relative to those who vote?
    People having the right to vote and not exercising voluntarily it is probably great thing.
    I donít mean to criticize you, but have you really thought thru this stance rather than repeating orthodoxy?


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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerGopherFan View Post
    Oh, you forgot Fox News deceiving the public.

    Requiring an ID to vote is just too damn much to ask. Or notifying people that you wonít be registered if you havenít voted in 12 years, yeah, thatís too much to ask too.
    Good thing that KFC is here to tell us that MSM is corrupt....and that Faux News is reporting the truth.


    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    Is there truly a logical reason why more voters is better? Do you think the people who don’t vote today are well informed and educated on the issues relative to those who vote?
    People having the right to vote and not exercising voluntarily it is probably great thing.
    I don’t mean to criticize you, but have you really thought thru this stance rather than repeating orthodoxy?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I get that you are afraid some uneducated people might vote for someone other than who you want but that is their right as a citizen of this country. Voting is the power us citizens still hold over our government. As a libertarian you should want every single eligible person to vote. It is amazingly sad that such a low percentage of eligible voters actually exercise their right to vote.
    Who hates iowa?

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