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  1. #1

    Default Chet Holmgren sounds off on MSHSL voting down shot clock proposal in MN HS










    Go Gophers!!


  2. #2

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    He's not totally wrong, but honestly how often does it happen where a team holds the ball for 3-4 minutes? I see maybe 15 or so high school games per year, and the only time I ever remember seeing it was that Hopkins-Shakopee game. I think there may have been one other state tournament game where it happened too but I didn't see that one.

    It would cost over a million dollars to put shot clocks at every school, plus each school would have to train and pay shot clock operators for every game. Just seems like a ton of money to be spending to fix something that only happens once in a blue moon. If it were a safety issue I would feel differently, but obviously it's not.

    RJ talked about it a little bit on Twitter and he basically said that if they can gather up that kind of money it would be better spent on coaching salaries or coaching/referee education. I tend to agree with that take.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzle22 View Post
    He's not totally wrong, but honestly how often does it happen where a team holds the ball for 3-4 minutes? I see maybe 15 or so high school games per year, and the only time I ever remember seeing it was that Hopkins-Shakopee game. I think there may have been one other state tournament game where it happened too but I didn't see that one.

    It would cost over a million dollars to put shot clocks at every school, plus each school would have to train and pay shot clock operators for every game. Just seems like a ton of money to be spending to fix something that only happens once in a blue moon. If it were a safety issue I would feel differently, but obviously it's not.

    RJ talked about it a little bit on Twitter and he basically said that if they can gather up that kind of money it would be better spent on coaching salaries or coaching/referee education. I tend to agree with that take.
    Generally speaking, not often. When it does happen, it's because one of the teams knows they're completely outmatched. I haven't been to any Minnehaha games, but given how good they are and how weak some of their competition is, I wouldn't be surprised if teams try that "strategy" against them a handful of times per season. It only takes one time to be completely sick of it.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Söze View Post
    Generally speaking, not often. When it does happen, it's because one of the teams knows they're completely outmatched. I haven't been to any Minnehaha games, but given how good they are and how weak some of their competition is, I wouldn't be surprised if teams try that "strategy" against them a handful of times per season. It only takes one time to be completely sick of it.
    I can understand that.

    Does high school still have the 5 second rule where it is a violation for holding the ball for 5 seconds if you are closely guarded? Seems like there could be ways to speed a team up if they are trying this strategy. Press, or play high pressure man-to-man D? I get it that it could be frustrating if your team doesn't want to do those things, but isn't that part of what basketball is about -- adjusting your game to what your opponent is doing?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzle22 View Post
    He's not totally wrong, but honestly how often does it happen where a team holds the ball for 3-4 minutes? I see maybe 15 or so high school games per year, and the only time I ever remember seeing it was that Hopkins-Shakopee game. I think there may have been one other state tournament game where it happened too but I didn't see that one.

    It would cost over a million dollars to put shot clocks at every school, plus each school would have to train and pay shot clock operators for every game. Just seems like a ton of money to be spending to fix something that only happens once in a blue moon. If it were a safety issue I would feel differently, but obviously it's not.

    RJ talked about it a little bit on Twitter and he basically said that if they can gather up that kind of money it would be better spent on coaching salaries or coaching/referee education. I tend to agree with that take.
    it happens may more than once in a blue moon...lesser teams stall all of the time...not to the extent of the Hopkins-Shakoppe game....but teams do hold on to the ball for more than 35 seconds quite often....plus how many times do you hear a coach yell out after a switch of the possession with less than 90 seconds to go in a half/game (1 SHOT)…...I am for sure in favor of adding a shot clock

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzle22 View Post
    He's not totally wrong, but honestly how often does it happen where a team holds the ball for 3-4 minutes? I see maybe 15 or so high school games per year, and the only time I ever remember seeing it was that Hopkins-Shakopee game. I think there may have been one other state tournament game where it happened too but I didn't see that one.

    It would cost over a million dollars to put shot clocks at every school, plus each school would have to train and pay shot clock operators for every game. Just seems like a ton of money to be spending to fix something that only happens once in a blue moon. If it were a safety issue I would feel differently, but obviously it's not.

    RJ talked about it a little bit on Twitter and he basically said that if they can gather up that kind of money it would be better spent on coaching salaries or coaching/referee education. I tend to agree with that take.
    where did you get the part where it would cost over a million dollars to add shot blocks at every school part? Not questioning you, im just wondering

    and in that million dollars does it say if that number takes into account the schools that already have them installed?
    Last edited by Gophs24; 06-06-2019 at 11:18 AM.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzle22 View Post
    I can understand that.

    Does high school still have the 5 second rule where it is a violation for holding the ball for 5 seconds if you are closely guarded? Seems like there could be ways to speed a team up if they are trying this strategy. Press, or play high pressure man-to-man D? I get it that it could be frustrating if your team doesn't want to do those things, but isn't that part of what basketball is about -- adjusting your game to what your opponent is doing?
    You can speed them up, but if they're intent on stalling, it can take a lot of energy, so teams usually just sit back and wait in my experience. It's a real treat for the fans.

    I've only seen a team do that strategy for a full game twice. It's far more common for teams to hold the ball toward the end when they have the lead and try to make their possessions as long as possible. You can speed them up still, but it can be exhausting to try to force a turnover, and if you over do it, you can give them an easy backdoor cut. The last thing I want to see in a playoff game is 2+ minute possessions of keep away to try to maintain a lead.

  8. #8
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    I am pro shot clock. I just like a more up-tempo game.

    and - maybe my biggest point in favor - if a team is down by a few points in the second half, they do not have to foul to stop the clock and get the ball back. play good defense for 35 seconds, and get the ball back without fouling or giving the opponent free-throw opportunities. Nothing I hate more than watching a good game for 30+ minutes, only to see it turn into free-throw derby down the stretch.

    if you can't get off a decent shot within 35 seconds, you don't have much of an offense in my book.

  9. #9

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    My high school team did it in overtime because we were seriously out of gas! Held the ball down to 15 seconds, worked it to our best player and he made the game winning basket with 5 seconds left.

    Doing it for a whole game would be totally lame and stressful to do.

  10. #10

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    I'll start this by saying I'm pro shot clock, but...

    It's not the travesty that so many coaches and folks are making it out to be. MN plays a pretty good pace compared to a lot of other states (at least regionally). Also it's not the MSHSL's job to prepare kids for the "next level". MN kids are doing really well in colleges right now and I don't believe adding a shot clock would really effect it either way on that end. I just know the biggest issue for admin and ad's is the continual cost of someone running it (600-1000 a year) and finding people willing to do it. Rural areas are struggling to find two workers, let alone a 3rd. I think it'd be smart for strong advocates of the shot clock to run them during non conference games more and more. Eventually even some conferences in the metro may step up and say they are using it for conference games too. I think it'll be here eventually, but I do have bigger issues with the game then a shot clock currently.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gophs24 View Post
    where did you get the part where it would cost over a million dollars to add shot blocks at every school part? Not questioning you, im just wondering

    and in that million dollars does it say if that number takes into account the schools that already have them installed?
    The articles about it say it costs $2.500 per shot clock including installation costs. Figure each court needs two. So it's $5k per school. There are 400+ schools that play basketball in the MSHSL. So it would be a little over $2M if none of them had shot clocks yet. Even if half of them already have shot clocks (which seems like it would be a really high estimate, but I don't have a clue what the actual number would be) it's still more than a million dollars.

    And that only means one court at each school has shot clocks. It's unclear to me if this would apply to 9th grade/JV teams as well. But if it applies to to the lower teams as well then some schools might need more than one court equipped with shot clocks.

    Throw in the added cost of having to train and pay someone to run the shot clock during the games, which is probably another thousand bucks per year. (Triple that if this is for 9th grade/JV as well.)

    In a perfect world I'd say of course there should be shot clocks. But looking at the costs involved I can see why most athletic directors are not on board with it.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzle22 View Post
    The articles about it say it costs $2.500 per shot clock including installation costs. Figure each court needs two. So it's $5k per school. There are 400+ schools that play basketball in the MSHSL. So it would be a little over $2M if none of them had shot clocks yet. Even if half of them already have shot clocks (which seems like it would be a really high estimate, but I don't have a clue what the actual number would be) it's still more than a million dollars.

    And that only means one court at each school has shot clocks. It's unclear to me if this would apply to 9th grade/JV teams as well. But if it applies to to the lower teams as well then some schools might need more than one court equipped with shot clocks.

    Throw in the added cost of having to train and pay someone to run the shot clock during the games, which is probably another thousand bucks per year. (Triple that if this is for 9th grade/JV as well.)

    In a perfect world I'd say of course there should be shot clocks. But looking at the costs involved I can see why most athletic directors are not on board with it.
    this would only apply to varsity games...so basically 1 gym would have shot clocks

    5k isn't a huge number per school. If the MSHSL had a brain they would just pass the dang thing and give schools 2 years to fundraise/ask for donations before its implemented and I would bet most all of them would have the shotclocks paid for.
    You don't need to really train somebody to run the clock....I do it for our high school and if you have any common sense when it comes to basketball the training should last about 2 minutes.
    I would guess you are about right with the 1,000 bucks a year to pay someone to run both girls and boys games as I think they get about 15 home games each or 30 total games. And at $25-$30 a game it would probably cost 750-1000.

    as a basketball fan I wish we had shot clocks for every game....but of course there is a cost to get it done.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Things Chet likes:
    Shot clocks and blocking shots
    Run-on sentences

    Things Chet does not care for:
    Punctuation
    Proofreading

  14. #14

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    More evidence that if you can ball..ha ha academy will let you slide academics

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by theczar View Post
    More evidence that if you can ball..ha ha academy will let you slide academics
    To be fair high school is not very difficult. Kids all over the country graduate high school, go D1 and are illiterate.

    Just wish Chet used punctuation.

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