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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoMn View Post
    I have no problem with folks doing whatever the heck they want to consensually. I have a problem with football players training someone's daughter without consent. I have a problem with the police department contacting the athletic department BEFORE gathering evidence, giving them time to lawyer up the players and get them to get their stories straight...all getting the same lawyer. I have problem with the police department not going immediately to the scene to collect evidence but letting days pass so all can be destroyed. To me campus police protect the university more than they protect alleged victims. This woman thought she was raped and still thinks she was raped. Whatever people do with consent if fine but she didn't remember giving consent, vaguely remembers being held down but even the police report says her memory was spotty. When one is extremely drunk one can't give consent. If she had wanted to do this she wouldn't gone to the police. She gains nothing by doing that. 23% of women are sexually assaulted during college. Being assaulted is a major reason women drop out of college. It affects their GPA. So not taking rape allegations seriously is a problem. That guys are training women even consensually on campus is a problem if it becomes news because it won't sit will with the donor class...just FYI...perhaps you don't spend time with donors to know that? Once again these morons are making a dark part of the University international news. If you are okay with that...then you have no idea how public university education funding works.
    You sound like you just want to lynch them. Don't care about facts, evidence or due process. They were guilty to you no matter what. I'm not condoning whatever they did, like I said it's not my cup of tea, but your guilty until proven innocent mindset is really F'd up.
    Who hates iowa?


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherPlaya View Post
    What parts?
    If you can't read the available material and identify the gross parts, then I'm not going to have a conversation with you about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Livingat45north View Post
    ... and in today's legalistic world, you get hit with a lawsuit for $42M to cover the players loss of future wages as you prevented them from having an NFL career.
    None of my athletes are future NFL players. They aren't even football players. And they're on my team because I allow them to be. We have a standard of conduct that all my guys have to agree to in order to participate, and grossly immoral behavior is part of the equation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Loblaw View Post
    You would kick people off of your team based on the kind of consensual sexual activities they partake in?

    It's one thing if it's non-consensual, obviously, that's horrendous and everyone agrees with you. However, you seem to be implying that you'd kick them off your team even if this was consensual. If that's the case, that's incredibly creepy.
    Incredibly creepy would be if I was trying to find out what goes on in their bedrooms. But if they're accused of rape, and despite not being charged they admit to grossly immoral behavior, I absolutely would kick them off my team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbandale View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the international community isn't spending two seconds worrying about this.
    You might be the only person here who didn't notice that the link in the original post is to a British tabloid. Yes, this is an international embarrassment to the U of M.

  3. #33
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    Apparently this needs to be said again:

    If the players are telling the truth, the woman was a willing participant.

    I wasn't there. I don't know what happened.

    but - unless you were there and you know 1st-hand what happened, there is a possibility that the players are telling the truth. there is also a possibility that the players are lying. that's why these cases are so hard to prove in court.

    Now, in the court of public opinion, group sex seems icky to a lot of people, whether it was consensual or not. But I don't presume to judge other people's lifestyles or behavior. If someone feels they are qualified or justified to pass judgement on other people, that's your thing.

  4. #34

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    Becoming obvious why CoMn got banned. Some people can be dangerous to society with their beliefs too.


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  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by everybody knows my name View Post

    Incredibly creepy would be if I was trying to find out what goes on in their bedrooms. But if they're accused of rape, and despite not being charged they admit to grossly immoral behavior, I absolutely would kick them off my team.


    You might be the only person here who didn't notice that the link in the original post is to a British tabloid. Yes, this is an international embarrassment to the U of M.
    (1) The behavior that they admitted to is "what goes on in their bedroom";
    (2) See your first sentence. . . you're right, it's incredibly creepy to kick people off a team for what they do in their bedroom;
    (3) If it was not consensual, then of course they should be locked up. But you seem to imply that there is something "grossly immoral" about the behavior, even if consensual, if so, please see your first sentence and (2), it's creepy for you to have an opinions on the consensual sexual moralities of grown men;
    (4) Are you just implying they are guilty?
    (5) Being mocked in a British tabloid is a sign you are on the right track.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoMn View Post
    I have no problem with folks doing whatever the heck they want to consensually. I have a problem with football players training someone's daughter without consent. I have a problem with the police department contacting the athletic department BEFORE gathering evidence, giving them time to lawyer up the players and get them to get their stories straight...all getting the same lawyer. I have problem with the police department not going immediately to the scene to collect evidence but letting days pass so all can be destroyed. To me campus police protect the university more than they protect alleged victims. This woman thought she was raped and still thinks she was raped. Whatever people do with consent if fine but she didn't remember giving consent, vaguely remembers being held down but even the police report says her memory was spotty. When one is extremely drunk one can't give consent. If she had wanted to do this she wouldn't gone to the police. She gains nothing by doing that. 23% of women are sexually assaulted during college. Being assaulted is a major reason women drop out of college. It affects their GPA. So not taking rape allegations seriously is a problem. That guys are training women even consensually on campus is a problem if it becomes news because it won't sit will with the donor class...just FYI...perhaps you don't spend time with donors to know that? Once again these morons are making a dark part of the University international news. If you are okay with that...then you have no idea how public university education funding works.
    Hot take!

    That is how everyone thinks of the situation. It's just that some of us don't have the hubris to assume we know exactly what happened. It's clear you do.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by everybody knows my name View Post

    You might be the only person here who didn't notice that the link in the original post is to a British tabloid. Yes, this is an international embarrassment to the U of M.
    Oh, come off it. Stop pretending that a link from the UK equals huge international embarrassment and scandal. That would be a gross miscalculation of what people around the world think is important.

  8. #38
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    There are numerous motives for false accusations ranging from embarrassment to revenge to attention to a misunderstanding of the legal definition of sexual assault vs the university definition.

    The latest example. Lord only knows what this girl was thinking.



    https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/05/...n-dies-attack/

    Utah man dies from attack after he was accused of sex assault — but police say the assault did not occur

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urbandale View Post
    Oh, come off it. Stop pretending that a link from the UK equals huge international embarrassment and scandal. That would be a gross miscalculation of what people around the world think is important.
    You can pretend to think that people aren't influenced by news they encounter on the web, I won't tell you not to. All I did is point out that it's bad news, it paints a bad picture of the U, and it's international.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by everybody knows my name View Post
    If you can't read the available material and identify the gross parts, then I'm not going to have a conversation with you about it.



    None of my athletes are future NFL players. They aren't even football players. And they're on my team because I allow them to be. We have a standard of conduct that all my guys have to agree to in order to participate, and grossly immoral behavior is part of the equation.



    Incredibly creepy would be if I was trying to find out what goes on in their bedrooms. But if they're accused of rape, and despite not being charged they admit to grossly immoral behavior, I absolutely would kick them off my team.



    You might be the only person here who didn't notice that the link in the original post is to a British tabloid. Yes, this is an international embarrassment to the U of M.
    Honestly, I find your snap judgments grossly immoral and I would never allow my kids to be influenced by someone like you. What proof do you have they raped the accuser?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Loblaw View Post
    (1) The behavior that they admitted to is "what goes on in their bedroom";
    (2) See your first sentence. . . you're right, it's incredibly creepy to kick people off a team for what they do in their bedroom;
    (3) If it was not consensual, then of course they should be locked up. But you seem to imply that there is something "grossly immoral" about the behavior, even if consensual, if so, please see your first sentence and (2), it's creepy for you to have an opinions on the consensual sexual moralities of grown men;
    (4) Are you just implying they are guilty?
    (5) Being mocked in a British tabloid is a sign you are on the right track.
    (1) I don't think you're dense, but I do think you're not reading carefully. I wrote, "creepy would be if I was trying to find out what goes on in their bedrooms." Knowing because it's in my face, front page news, I'm not trying to find out anything private about them.

    (2) Whether a particular behavior is immoral is a separate issue from whether it's legal. This concept is foreign to some people, because morality is out of style. But most Americans still make a distinction. Additionally, what these young men did, criminal or not, brought disrepute to the University and their teammates.

    (3) It isn't creepy for me to have high moral standards and to impart them to those I teach.

    (4) Guilty of what? I don't think I implied anything, I thought I made myself pretty clear.

    (5) Most people who read that article don't know anything about the University of Minnesota except what they saw and read about Carlton Djam & Co. Snobbery is no protection against bad publicity.
    Last edited by everybody knows my name; 05-15-2019 at 01:40 PM.

  12. #42
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    Nm.
    Gopher football fan since 1924. DNA-wise.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by bottlebass View Post
    You sound like you just want to lynch them. Don't care about facts, evidence or due process. They were guilty to you no matter what. I'm not condoning whatever they did, like I said it's not my cup of tea, but your guilty until proven innocent mindset is really F'd up.
    No, I don't like it when students don't represent the university well. It hurts more than the football team. It hurts the entire university.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Loblaw View Post
    Hot take!

    That is how everyone thinks of the situation. It's just that some of us don't have the hubris to assume we know exactly what happened. It's clear you do.

    The guys admitted quite a bit....none of which makes them good representatives to the university. Here's an idea...don't have sex with someone who might accuse you of rape.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by everybody knows my name View Post
    (1) I don't think you're dense, but I do think you're not reading carefully. I wrote, "creepy would be if I was trying to find out what goes on in their bedrooms." Knowing because it's in my face, front page news, I'm not trying to find out anything private about them.

    (2) Whether a particular behavior is immoral is a separate issue from whether it's legal. This concept is foreign to some people, because morality is out of style. But most Americans still make a distinction. Additionally, what these young men did, criminal or not, brought disrepute to the University and their teammates.

    (3) It isn't creepy for me to have high moral standards and to impart them to those I teach.

    (4) Guilty of what? I don't think I implied anything, I thought I made myself pretty clear.

    (5) Most people who read that article don't know anything about the University of Minnesota except what they saw and read about Carlton Djam & Co. Snobbery is no protection against bad publicity.
    So you decide what is immoral? You are a bigger part of the problem than the solution.


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