WOW: Michigan’s John Beilein has agreed to a five-year deal to coach Cleveland Cavs

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bizzle22 said:
It's a top 10 or so job. There are plenty of accomplished coaches making good money at good jobs who would consider it if Michigan wants to go the route of a established coach. Michigan may well be happy to let a guy like Yaklich take over for the sake of continuity, but if they want to go after a big name plenty would listen.
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No it’s not. It’s a football school Beilein made consistently successful, but not consistently top 10. They have had runs here and there over the years with him and before him, but the program is not a top 10 school.


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Ozzy&Ray said:
No it’s not. It’s a football school Beilein made consistently successful, but not consistently top 10. They have had runs here and there over the years with him and before him, but the program is not a top 10 school.


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I don't know about that. I think you have Duke, NC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Michigan State as the pure blue bloods over that last 10 - 15 years. After that, I would put Michigan along side Gonzaga, Virginia, Nova, Louisville, maybe Ohio State, maybe Syracuse, maybe Sconny and of course, UCLA (although they haven't done squat recently). I'm probably missing someone but, Michigan is a dang good job. I think, for sure, in the next tier behind the true blue bloods.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
No it’s not. It’s a football school Beilein made consistently successful, but not consistently top 10. They have had runs here and there over the years with him and before him, but the program is not a top 10 school.


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+1. It's football first, the arena isn't great and they don't draw when they don't win. It's not even top half of the B1G IMO. The caveat is they can pay top 10 $$ if they choose.
 

TNGophfan said:
I don't know about that. I think you have Duke, NC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Michigan State as the pure blue bloods over that last 10 - 15 years. After that, I would put Michigan along side Gonzaga, Virginia, Nova, Louisville, maybe Ohio State, maybe Syracuse, maybe Sconny and of course, UCLA (although they haven't done squat recently). I'm probably missing someone but, Michigan is a dang good job. I think, for sure, in the next tier behind the true blue bloods.
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Even among football schools I'd put Michigan behind OSU, Florida and probably Wisconsin.

In the B1G: IU, MSU, OSU and MD are definitively better jobs, IMO and I'd argue WI, IL and Purdue are as well.
 
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I'm going contrarian here. No, I didn't have my hand up expecting him to jump to the NBA, but I am not surprised. He did interview last year or the year before for an NBA job. He has a long history of advancing in his career by taking upgraded jobs. Going from college to the pros is an upgrade in the profession. This is a natural trajectory, although pretty late in his career. In some ways, it is low risk career wise. He has nothing to prove. He can't possibly need the money, and he gets a new challenge. I'm with all the others who see dodging the cesspool of recruiting and the 12 month grind of college coaching as perfectly understandable reasons he would go. At age 66, it's hard for me to see another stop after this one is over.

Good luck to him. He's a good guy who deserves the shot if he wants it.

I do think it's a harder blow for Michigan than some people think. It took him a while to get it rolling there, and he is a great coach. It is not an automatic no matter who fills the chair. No matter what, it will create another small version of coaching musical chairs.
 

Agree which much of what you say here. But the NBA is not a upgrade t several college coaches. Those select guys would much rather coach college. They are turning down NBA jobs all the time. The NBA has very few great coaches and are always going after the top college guys. Some a compensated far beyond NBA money, with attractive annuities north of 25 million, living in communities they and their families love. Back to Michigan, that is a job that will attract quality candidates.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Nope.

No one is forcing them to play college basketball.


Just like no one forces anyone to play in the NFL or NBA.
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This could be the most ludicrous idea I’ve read- and on this board that’s saying something.


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Oregon Gopher said:
This could be the most ludicrous idea I’ve read- and on this board that’s saying something.
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No logical, thoughtful critiques or counter-arguments. You’re either lazy or I nailed it on the head. I’ll go with the latter.
 



howeda7 said:
+1. It's football first, the arena isn't great and they don't draw when they don't win. It's not even top half of the B1G IMO. The caveat is they can pay top 10 $$ if they choose.
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It's going to be difficult to take you seriously after this.
 

Oregon Gopher said:
This could be the most ludicrous idea I’ve read- and on this board that’s saying something.


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Between the one you were responding to and one that says Michigan is a bottom half of the B1G job this thread might have the worst takes I've seen on here in a while. And yes, that's saying something. I guess people are off their game in the offseason.
 

TNGophfan said:
I don't know about that. I think you have Duke, NC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Michigan State as the pure blue bloods over that last 10 - 15 years. After that, I would put Michigan along side Gonzaga, Virginia, Nova, Louisville, maybe Ohio State, maybe Syracuse, maybe Sconny and of course, UCLA (although they haven't done squat recently). I'm probably missing someone but, Michigan is a dang good job. I think, for sure, in the next tier behind the true blue bloods.
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Right on. And unless one of those has a scandal or the coach leaves unexpectedly those types of jobs don't come open very often.
 

College basketball programs are only as good as their coach. Two wonderful examples are Indiana and UCLA, programs that belong in any conversation of blue blood programs, but that have had varying degrees of success since their legendary coaches left. UNC and Kentucky had some shaky years where they were able to right the ship with quick firings and the right hires. We have no idea what will happen with Duke and Michigan State when their legendary head coaches step aside.

And when they do step aside, where is the incentive for an established head coach to leave? Look at what occurred with Ben Howland when he was at UCLA; the three straight Final Fours quickly faded from memory when the Bruins struggled a bit, and he was forced out. Why would the likes of Gregg Marshall, Mark Few, Chris Beard, not the mention the likes of Tony Bennett and Jay Wright leap at these jobs? Especially in a case such as Michigan's, where you are replacing a very successful coach who's set the bar so high?

While this isn't of Michigan's doing, I wouldn't be surprised to see it go the way of head coach searches at places like UCLA, NC State, Illinois and other purportedly great jobs in recent years where candidates weren't exactly rushing forward. Why risk a good or great thing at Gonzaga, Wichita St, or Texas Tech when the money and acclaim and access to the tournament is as good, if not better, than the risk involved with moving on to a job where you're replacing a really solid coach, if not a legend.
 



This is a loss for college basketball and the B1G. He was an excellent teacher and his teams played an entertaining style. Michigan is a great gig and has the money to overpay to get their man.
Tom Izzo and the Buckeyes are certainly happy.
 

coolhandgopher said:
College basketball programs are only as good as their coach. Two wonderful examples are Indiana and UCLA, programs that belong in any conversation of blue blood programs, but that have had varying degrees of success since their legendary coaches left. UNC and Kentucky had some shaky years where they were able to right the ship with quick firings and the right hires. We have no idea what will happen with Duke and Michigan State when their legendary head coaches step aside.

And when they do step aside, where is the incentive for an established head coach to leave? Look at what occurred with Ben Howland when he was at UCLA; the three straight Final Fours quickly faded from memory when the Bruins struggled a bit, and he was forced out. Why would the likes of Gregg Marshall, Mark Few, Chris Beard, not the mention the likes of Tony Bennett and Jay Wright leap at these jobs? Especially in a case such as Michigan's, where you are replacing a very successful coach who's set the bar so high?

While this isn't of Michigan's doing, I wouldn't be surprised to see it go the way of head coach searches at places like UCLA, NC State, Illinois and other purportedly great jobs in recent years where candidates weren't exactly rushing forward. Why risk a good or great thing at Gonzaga, Wichita St, or Texas Tech when the money and acclaim and access to the tournament is as good, if not better, than the risk involved with moving on to a job where you're replacing a really solid coach, if not a legend.
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True. If you do not get a great coach you do not become a great program. So if you lose one your program falls back. As part of our family firm we study the success of coaches and programs and shared some of that data on this site.
 

Gophers_4life said:
No logical, thoughtful critiques or counter-arguments. You’re either lazy or I nailed it on the head. I’ll go with the latter.
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So you're saying that if a student wants to play basketball at a power 5 school they have to be drafted by the school and that school would own their "rights", otherwise they don't get to play at all? Would this be true for football too?
 

manderson1984 said:
So you're saying that if a student wants to play basketball at a power 5 school they have to be drafted by the school and that school would own their "rights", otherwise they don't get to play at all? Would this be true for football too?
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I love it. People acting like the NFL/NFLPA/NFL Draft and NBA/NBPA/NBA Draft are from outer space and happen on Jupiter.

You know exactly what they are and how they work, and why they’re in place.


I’m simply saying that I think major college (men’s) basketball (P6) and major college football (P5) need that type of organization among the players, the “owners” (conferences), and how the high level players are dispersed among members, for the good and survival of those two entities.
 

bizzle22 said:
It's going to be difficult to take you seriously after this.
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Tell me how Michigan is definitively a better job than Indiana, MSU, OSU, Wisconsin, Maryland etc?

They were a mess for 10 years before Beilein got there. It's second fiddle in its own state and is not one of the more intimidating road environments. It's a better job than MN and Iowa etc. But middle of the conference, IMO. Beilein is one of the 2-3 best coaches in college basketball. It won't be so easy for the next guy.
 
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Gophers_4life said:
I love it. People acting like the NFL/NFLPA/NFL Draft and NBA/NBPA/NBA Draft are from outer space and happen on Jupiter.

You know exactly what they are and how they work, and why they’re in place.


I’m simply saying that I think major college (men’s) basketball (P6) and major college football (P5) need that type of organization among the players, the “owners” (conferences), and how the high level players are dispersed among members, for the good and survival of those two entities.
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Professional drafts are in place to suppress wages.
Distributing talent is just how they sell it.
 

Gophers_4life said:
I love it. People acting like the NFL/NFLPA/NFL Draft and NBA/NBPA/NBA Draft are from outer space and happen on Jupiter.

You know exactly what they are and how they work, and why they’re in place.


I’m simply saying that I think major college (men’s) basketball (P6) and major college football (P5) need that type of organization among the players, the “owners” (conferences), and how the high level players are dispersed among members, for the good and survival of those two entities.
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They do and they are called scholarship limits. Tim Miles mentioned on Jeff Goldman's podcast recently that if you want the transfer rate to go down, take away scholarships. Then schools have to more selective with the people and talent they offer, hence cannot stockpile it. Also I argue with the issue that the entities are struggling. College football and basketball make millions for their respective universities and already take advantage of players. Restricting players will not solve the issue, restricting institutions could.
 

Some guy said:
Professional drafts are in place to suppress wages.
Distributing talent is just how they sell it.
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Precisely. It's a socialist system. Owners don't want a capitalist system because it'd cost them more money.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
Precisely. It's a socialist system. Owners don't want a capitalist system because it'd cost them more money.
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Be more of an oligarchy. Socialist would mean players have equal rights and true revenue sharing which is what the players push towards in most collective bargaining agreements. A small group (owners) have most of the control and decision making power.
 

howeda7 said:
Tell me how Michigan is definitively a better job than Indiana, MSU, OSU, Wisconsin, Maryland etc?

They were a mess for 10 years before Beilein got there. It's second fiddle in its own state and is not one of the more intimidating road environments. It's a better job than MN and Iowa etc. But middle of the conference, IMO. Beilein is one of the 2-3 best coaches in college basketball. It won't be so easy for the next guy.
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For starters they have a higher athletics budget than every school in the B1G except Ohio State. They also have better brand recognition than most other B1G schools as evidenced by their apparel deal with Jordan which is the 4th highest in college sports. While some of that is related to football, it still helps to have those resources.

Specific to basketball -- the only B1G programs that spend more on men's basketball are Michigan State and Ohio State. The Crisler Center is not fantastic, but it's fine. The program has been relatively scandal-free over the last couple of decades. Even when they had those down years before Beilein they were still .500 or better in the B1G most of those seasons. As far as tradition goes, they've been to five final fours which is more than every other B1G program except Michigan St, Ohio St, and Indiana. They've been able to reel in some pretty good coaches when they have to do a search. Amaker was considered a rising star when they pulled him from Seton Hall and they plucked Beilein from a fellow Power 5 school.

In an average year there are only maybe 1 or 2 jobs that are as good or better than Michigan that come open. IMO the only B1G job that is unquestionably better is Indiana. I've never seen a ranking of B1G basketball jobs with Michigan worse than 4th in the conference. And 4th in the conference translates to at least top 20 nationally.

I'll agree it won't be easy for the next guy, but they'll have plenty of big-time candidates interested if they choose to go that route. Seems like Billy Donovan's name has come up quite a bit, and I don't know of many college jobs good enough to pique the interest of NBA playoff coaches.
 

bizzle22 said:
For starters they have a higher athletics budget than every school in the B1G except Ohio State. They also have better brand recognition than most other B1G schools as evidenced by their apparel deal with Jordan which is the 4th highest in college sports. While some of that is related to football, it still helps to have those resources.

Specific to basketball -- the only B1G programs that spend more on men's basketball are Michigan State and Ohio State. The Crisler Center is not fantastic, but it's fine. The program has been relatively scandal-free over the last couple of decades. Even when they had those down years before Beilein they were still .500 or better in the B1G most of those seasons. As far as tradition goes, they've been to five final fours which is more than every other B1G program except Michigan St, Ohio St, and Indiana. They've been able to reel in some pretty good coaches when they have to do a search. Amaker was considered a rising star when they pulled him from Seton Hall and they plucked Beilein from a fellow Power 5 school.

In an average year there are only maybe 1 or 2 jobs that are as good or better than Michigan that come open. IMO the only B1G job that is unquestionably better is Indiana. I've never seen a ranking of B1G basketball jobs with Michigan worse than 4th in the conference. And 4th in the conference translates to at least top 20 nationally.

I'll agree it won't be easy for the next guy, but they'll have plenty of big-time candidates interested if they choose to go that route. Seems like Billy Donovan's name has come up quite a bit, and I don't know of many college jobs good enough to pique the interest of NBA playoff coaches.
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Good link with how people actually affiliated with the Big 10 rank all the basketball jobs.
 

manderson1984 said:
They do and they are called scholarship limits. Tim Miles mentioned on Jeff Goldman's podcast recently that if you want the transfer rate to go down, take away scholarships. Then schools have to more selective with the people and talent they offer, hence cannot stockpile it. Also I argue with the issue that the entities are struggling. College football and basketball make millions for their respective universities and already take advantage of players. Restricting players will not solve the issue, restricting institutions could.
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Very few D-1 programs run a surplus and bring in net profit to a university. The last I heard it was less than 20 or so throughout the country. The excess in football and basketball funds the sports that don't pay for themselves. Few universities are getting rich on sports. A lot of coaches and administrators may be, but not the schools, despite the big bucks that flow through big athletic departments.
 

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Ski U Mah Gopher said:
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This really surprises me. I would have thought the association with the Fab 5 scandals would have made this a difficult hire for them. Maybe Juwan came away clean, but I would have a hard time seeing our beloved U of M hiring a guy associated with scandal, even if they were innocent.
 

Holy Man said:
This really surprises me. I would have thought the association with the Fab 5 scandals would have made this a difficult hire for them. Maybe Juwan came away clean, but I would have a hard time seeing our beloved U of M hiring a guy associated with scandal, even if they were innocent.
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If my memory is correct, Chris Webber is the only one of the Fab 5 implicated in the scandal. After initially denying it, C-Webb eventually admitted he took money from big-time Michigan booster Ed Martin. I think Tractor Traylor (he played later at UM) also was involved.
 

SelectionSunday said:
If my memory is correct, Chris Webber is the only one of the Fab 5 implicated in the scandal. After initially denying it, C-Webb eventually admitted he took money from big-time Michigan booster Ed Martin. I think Tractor Traylor (he played later at UM) also was involved.
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Jalen Rose also said publicly that he took small amounts of money, and I thought the general sense is that they were all part of it in some way, with Webber being the biggest beneficiary.
 

howeda7 said:
Tell me how Michigan is definitively a better job than Indiana, MSU, OSU, Wisconsin, Maryland etc?

They were a mess for 10 years before Beilein got there. It's second fiddle in its own state and is not one of the more intimidating road environments. It's a better job than MN and Iowa etc. But middle of the conference, IMO. Beilein is one of the 2-3 best coaches in college basketball. It won't be so easy for the next guy.
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In addition to Bizzle's reply... Michigan is also perceived by many as the best academic institution in the Big Ten.
 

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