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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnGopher View Post
    So we should have tried harder to get Crowl, who doesn't fit our system, because we can't get Rick's recruits or UNC recruits? Omersa showed all of the athletic ability in the world. Curious as to what makes you think that we would assess two players and not take the one with proven athletic ability, which is essential to move and defend in the B1G, and instead aim for a recruit with a way lower ceiling and athletic ability? The thing is though, Omersa has been in the program for a year and you are already saying he isn't good. We knew it would take a little time, and he showed he can be a very solid defender against Nick Ward in the tourney. Crowl is the same way, it will take a little time and yet you would be taking the same way about Crowl who would be showing major deficiencies after one year too, just like Omersa did with his offensive game.
    Richard’s system went from initially press and run to defense and run a bit to...run only when we can.

    Of course, personnel is a big factor but we’re never going to be a team that consistently runs up-and-down successfully. If someone wants to speed up the pace, Coffey obliged and had great games. If not, we’ll continue to lose by missing more shots, turning it over a bit more, and fouling a bit too much on defense...but we will have some exciting fast break alley oops.


  2. #77

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    Omersa is also a year younger in age than his peers. By age he could have been a senior in HS last year.

    Everyone forgets this and expects him to be more polished because he has a man's body. Let him work on his game and we will reap the benefits.

  3. #78

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    Crowl has some skill. He can shoot spotting up. He has pretty good footwork on the post and he can use both hands. He plays below the rim but so do other bigs. Crowl could be a poor mans Luka Garza or maybe end up like Jeff Hagen very solid.

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickDornsby View Post
    Richard’s system went from initially press and run to defense and run a bit to...run only when we can.

    Of course, personnel is a big factor but we’re never going to be a team that consistently runs up-and-down successfully. If someone wants to speed up the pace, Coffey obliged and had great games. If not, we’ll continue to lose by missing more shots, turning it over a bit more, and fouling a bit too much on defense...but we will have some exciting fast break alley oops.
    You are framing it like all of our troubles are due to us running. Have you saw what some of his squads can do with a capable big man and athletic guards? See the team that won him B1G COY. We don't have to commit to a system of running every single game or slowing it down every single game. There are styles that fall in between. I don't get what your complaint is, we have been doing something in between those two styles for the majority of his tenure. Yes offense was rough at times last year, we need another shooter/slasher that can score.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnGopher View Post
    You are framing it like all of our troubles are due to us running. Have you saw what some of his squads can do with a capable big man and athletic guards? See the team that won him B1G COY. We don't have to commit to a system of running every single game or slowing it down every single game. There are styles that fall in between. I don't get what your complaint is, we have been doing something in between those two styles for the majority of his tenure. Yes offense was rough at times last year, we need another shooter/slasher that can score.
    The problem isn’t due to running as we don’t do it much anymore.

    You need elite players to run/press in most major conferences...I’m not sure we’ll ever get that. But every year we go after the same “type” and end up not being a running team anyways. We still will run more than Wisconsin but we play half court basketball against 10 or 11 of the B10 teams anyways since we are forced to...yet we insist on getting guys for a style we don’t even really play.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickDornsby View Post
    Richard’s system went from initially press and run to defense and run a bit to...run only when we can.

    Of course, personnel is a big factor but we’re never going to be a team that consistently runs up-and-down successfully. If someone wants to speed up the pace, Coffey obliged and had great games. If not, we’ll continue to lose by missing more shots, turning it over a bit more, and fouling a bit too much on defense...but we will have some exciting fast break alley oops.
    I disagree with your second point. If all the guys are eligible last year I would guarantee we ran far more, just like we would this year if Amir was back. You just need adequate depth and Pitino has not obtained that through his own recruiting misses or guys messing up

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by upnorthkid View Post
    I disagree with your second point. If all the guys are eligible last year I would guarantee we ran far more, just like we would this year if Amir was back. You just need adequate depth and Pitino has not obtained that through his own recruiting misses or guys messing up
    This is the exact point. “If nobody gets hurt and everything is right we have the group to execute the system.” How often is that happening?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickDornsby View Post
    This is the exact point. “If nobody gets hurt and everything is right we have the group to execute the system.” How often is that happening?
    Honestly I’d expect it this year unless Pitino fully decides he’s not in on doing it

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by upnorthkid View Post
    Honestly I’d expect it this year unless Pitino fully decides he’s not in on doing it
    I can see it but now we have a fairly youthful team trying to speed up experienced B10 teams. Could turn out like Illinois last year.

  10. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickDornsby View Post
    The problem isn’t due to running as we don’t do it much anymore.

    You need elite players to run/press in most major conferences...I’m not sure we’ll ever get that. But every year we go after the same “type” and end up not being a running team anyways. We still will run more than Wisconsin but we play half court basketball against 10 or 11 of the B10 teams anyways since we are forced to...yet we insist on getting guys for a style we don’t even really play.
    I'm not sure what you are saying, lets recruit less athletic kids? Athletic ability can trump skills as skills can athletic ability as well. Need athletes to defend in the B1G. If you just want better recruits I get that but we have been recruiting fairly well the last few years.

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickDornsby View Post
    I can see it but now we have a fairly youthful team trying to speed up experienced B10 teams. Could turn out like Illinois last year.
    Do you not understand you modify a system to fit what you have for players, and try to get players that are the best fit that you can get? Who should we be recruiting then? All you are saying is you don't like the prospects that we get. What are we lacking other than more threats from deep? We have taken some tough hits over the years with injuries/off the court, but when Pitino has the team we should have, we do pretty solid.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnGopher View Post
    Do you not understand you modify a system to fit what you have for players, and try to get players that are the best fit that you can get? Who should we be recruiting then? All you are saying is you don't like the prospects that we get. What are we lacking other than more threats from deep? We have taken some tough hits over the years with injuries/off the court, but when Pitino has the team we should have, we do pretty solid.
    Pitino has done a decent job at modifying the system but the problem is that he has to modify almost every single year.

    He realized a few years ago that he can’t run Wisconsin or Beilein’s Michigan out of the gym so he’s forced to play slow for a large portion of the Big 10 slate, especially since the bench is always thin for one reason or another. Yet every year he’s recruiting to be Rick’s Louisville or Roy’s UNC when that simply wont happen here unless Rick starts funneling cash to his son’s recruits.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnGopher View Post
    I'm not sure what you are saying, lets recruit less athletic kids? Athletic ability can trump skills as skills can athletic ability as well. Need athletes to defend in the B1G. If you just want better recruits I get that but we have been recruiting fairly well the last few years.

    Athleticism can trump skill if you’re Michigan State on a whole different level than your conference with skilled athletes or if you’re Duke with NBA players that haven’t meshed as a team yet.

    If not, you’re left with the Omersas or the Washingtons or the McBrayers of, “if he just got a better jumper and stopped turning it over so much, we’d have a stud player” and then the player graduates and he has not yet.
    Last edited by RickDornsby; 09-18-2019 at 11:38 AM.

  14. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickDornsby View Post
    Athleticism can trump skill if you’re Michigan State on a whole different level than your conference with skilled athletes or if you’re Duke with NBA players that haven’t meshed as a team yet.

    If not, you’re left with the Omersas or the Washingtons or the McBrayers of, “if he just got a better jumper and stopped turning it over so much, we’d have a stud player” and then the player graduates and he has not yet.
    You haven't said one thing about the type of player or what you feel is generally wrong with the type of player you recruit. Who are these skill guys we should be targeting right now? You just want to complain about who we are targeting because some haven't panned out as well, or we haven't won as much as you would like. Anybody can do that. Right now, would you take Crowl? Who are some others that we should be targeting then that are skill guys instead of athletes? You literally have made no argument, just complained about our recruits.

  15. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickDornsby View Post
    Pitino has done a decent job at modifying the system but the problem is that he has to modify almost every single year.

    He realized a few years ago that he can’t run Wisconsin or Beilein’s Michigan out of the gym so he’s forced to play slow for a large portion of the Big 10 slate, especially since the bench is always thin for one reason or another. Yet every year he’s recruiting to be Rick’s Louisville or Roy’s UNC when that simply wont happen here unless Rick starts funneling cash to his son’s recruits.
    I think Pitino has to and I think he has now come up with a more balanced approach to recruiting. I think early on he made the mistake of believing that he was going to be able to recruit 4 star plus athletes with skills to boot. When it became tough to find the guys he went the athletic route for the most part and he hoped for the best or for improvement on shooting. With his past few classes I think he has found a balance and think that the players he is hard after in this class mostly fit that same mold of being able to run and shoot. He has also stuck with guys that appear to be very high character guys. The trend- in my view- is good.

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