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  1. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by cncmin View Post
    It's always interesting that you only care about "corruption" on one side of a political aisle.
    Which is exactly what you are displaying with this post.


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  2. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    False statement in angry condescending tone, insulting nickname.

    -every jammer post


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    I’m your new obsession, deuce. AOC gets a break from your stalking.



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  3. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiche View Post
    In 2016 and 2020 in contested states a vote for a third party candidate is a vote for Trump.
    Not sure what you're saying here; this is pretty much true in every election, particularly with incumbents. It's without question we got two terms of Barry before Trump.

    In every single election, the loser could always try to point to 3rd party votes as to why they lost. That may or may not be true, but it always makes the loser feel better about losing.

    If the true purpose of voting is for an individual to vote for the person they think is the best candidate, NOBODY should have a problem with anyone else voting 3rd party or anything else.
    - Respect is the ultimate currency

  4. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiche View Post
    I’m your new obsession, deuce. AOC gets a break from your stalking.

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    You flatter yourself too.

  5. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    Which is exactly what you are displaying with this post.


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    Explain. (Note that literally, you are false, again.)

  6. #216
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    The trick in assessing a 3rd-party candidate is trying to figure out how those votes would have been apportioned if they would have gone to one of the two major-party candidates.

    for instance, in Bush V. Gore - IF you think that most of Ralph Nader's votes would have gone to Gore, then you can argue that the people voting for Nader helped elect Bush. Bush won Florida by roughly 500 votes, and Nader received over 97,000 votes in Florida.

    Likewise in Trump v Clinton - in Michigan, Gary Johnson received roughly 170,000 votes, in a state Trump carried by about 10,000 votes. But, it's harder to say whether the Johnson voters would have gone for Trump or Clinton. I don't think that one is as clear-cut. But, you could argue that - if the majority of Johnson voters would have supported Clinton, then Michigan might have gone the other way. The same could be said of Pennsylvania. Again, the number of Johnson voters were far more than the margin of victory for Trump. But, I certainly can't say whether the Johnson voters would have supported Trump or Clinton.

    Bottom line - 3rd party candidates do influence the outcome of elections. I guess the question is whether that was their intent, or an unintended consequence of their campaign.

    And, you could argue that it makes a case for ranked-choice voting.

  7. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by cncmin View Post
    It's always interesting that you only care about "corruption" on one side of a political aisle.
    No, that's you who only cares when one party is guilty. I've taken many GOP'ers to task for their corruption. You on the other hand, didn't you care about this Biden corruption story in Ukraine when I first posted it here, long before Trump ran for office.

    Imagine if Trump & Jr. flew to Ukraine to meet with Burisma, the gas/oil goliath, then less than a month later Don Jr. & Jared Kushner were both named to Burisma's Board of Directors? With no experience or expertise in the gas/oil sector. Then, Burisma apparently laundered billions, much of which ended up in Don Jr's bank account & then Trump had the prosecutor investigating the case fired? That's what happened with Joe Biden, his son Hunter Biden & John Kerry's kid's best friend, Devon Archer (who has since been convicted of fraud in another case). You'd be howling at the moon & screaming for justice. Instead, you ignored it because it involved Democrats, but jumped on board the fake Trump-Russia narrative that you knew was a lie, for 3 years, because Trump is a Republican. You will learn the details of this case, whether you like it or not.
    If at first you don’t succeed, then maybe you just suck. – Kenny Powers

  8. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by short ornery norwegian View Post
    The trick in assessing a 3rd-party candidate is trying to figure out how those votes would have been apportioned if they would have gone to one of the two major-party candidates.

    for instance, in Bush V. Gore - IF you think that most of Ralph Nader's votes would have gone to Gore, then you can argue that the people voting for Nader helped elect Bush. Bush won Florida by roughly 500 votes, and Nader received over 97,000 votes in Florida.

    Likewise in Trump v Clinton - in Michigan, Gary Johnson received roughly 170,000 votes, in a state Trump carried by about 10,000 votes. But, it's harder to say whether the Johnson voters would have gone for Trump or Clinton. I don't think that one is as clear-cut. But, you could argue that - if the majority of Johnson voters would have supported Clinton, then Michigan might have gone the other way. The same could be said of Pennsylvania. Again, the number of Johnson voters were far more than the margin of victory for Trump. But, I certainly can't say whether the Johnson voters would have supported Trump or Clinton.

    Bottom line - 3rd party candidates do influence the outcome of elections. I guess the question is whether that was their intent, or an unintended consequence of their campaign.

    And, you could argue that it makes a case for ranked-choice voting.
    Blaming Nader via the Gore/Bush thing is a sore spot for me. Nader's a damn good man & our country would have been much better off with him instead of the crook Bush, or that limp-d*ck, phony Al Gore.

    Watching the corporate owned DNC & their crony media lackies demonize Nader, an actual Liberal was when I really took npotice of the complete corruption that had occurred in the DNC. Nader's done more for the average American than 99% of current D politicians will in their lifetimes. Nader is a great man, they are corrupt, blood suckers.

    Every single 3rd party candidate in Florida got enough votes to swing the state. Instead of Demonizing Nader, they should have looked inward because it's their fault, not Nader's that they ran such a piss-poor candidate that 250k registered Democrats in Florida voted for Bush. The lesson to be learned was "Don't run a complete loser, who your own voters don't like", but with the help of their corporate media lackeys, they managed to make the lesson "Don't ever vote for anyone except a D, no matter how bad they are or how much you have to compromise you integrity to do it.".
    If at first you don’t succeed, then maybe you just suck. – Kenny Powers

  9. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by Costa Rican Gopher View Post
    No, that's you who only cares when one party is guilty. I've taken many GOP'ers to task for their corruption. You on the other hand, didn't you care about this Biden corruption story in Ukraine when I first posted it here, long before Trump ran for office.

    Imagine if Trump & Jr. flew to Ukraine to meet with Burisma, the gas/oil goliath, then less than a month later Don Jr. & Jared Kushner were both named to Burisma's Board of Directors? With no experience or expertise in the gas/oil sector. Then, Burisma apparently laundered billions, much of which ended up in Don Jr's bank account & then Trump had the prosecutor investigating the case fired? That's what happened with Joe Biden, his son Hunter Biden & John Kerry's kid's best friend, Devon Archer (who has since been convicted of fraud in another case). You'd be howling at the moon & screaming for justice. Instead, you ignored it because it involved Democrats, but jumped on board the fake Trump-Russia narrative that you knew was a lie, for 3 years, because Trump is a Republican. You will learn the details of this case, whether you like it or not.
    Wrong. So very wrong. I care about all corruption, very, very unlike you. And I care about the mounds and mounds of corruption of the current POTUS, of whom you couldn't shower more praise if he was asking you to drink the Kool Aid himself, Cult Follower.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiche View Post
    I’m your new obsession, deuce. AOC gets a break from your stalking.



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    Thank God. Enjoy.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costa Rican Gopher View Post
    Biden is upside down in one of the most serious corruption scandals in modern history. You just haven't heard about it. ..yet. Look into Biden, his son Hunter, Burisma & Biden's firing of the prosecutor investigating the Biden corruption.

    Sent from my LM-X410(FG) using Tapatalk
    History! If only you didn't have a history of posting un-sourced bull $%% "we now know.." I'm sure Qanon got this one right though.

    I remember when you were all about draining the swamp etc. Now you lick the boots of the most corrupt administration in 40 years on a daily basis.
    Last edited by howeda7; 05-12-2019 at 06:56 PM.

  12. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by howeda7 View Post
    History! If only you didn't have a history of posting un-sourced bull $%% "we now know.." I'm sure Qanon got this one right though.

    I remember when you were all about draining the swamp etc. Now you lick the boots of the most corrupt administration in 40 years on a daily basis.
    It's hard to believe people like CRG actually exist.
    Last edited by cncmin; 05-12-2019 at 07:01 PM.

  13. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by howeda7 View Post
    Thank God. Enjoy.
    Lucky me. You get a break for a while.

  14. #224
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costa Rican Gopher View Post
    Blaming Nader via the Gore/Bush thing is a sore spot for me. Nader's a damn good man & our country would have been much better off with him instead of the crook Bush, or that limp-d*ck, phony Al Gore.

    Watching the corporate owned DNC & their crony media lackies demonize Nader, an actual Liberal was when I really took npotice of the complete corruption that had occurred in the DNC. Nader's done more for the average American than 99% of current D politicians will in their lifetimes. Nader is a great man, they are corrupt, blood suckers.

    Every single 3rd party candidate in Florida got enough votes to swing the state. Instead of Demonizing Nader, they should have looked inward because it's their fault, not Nader's that they ran such a piss-poor candidate that 250k registered Democrats in Florida voted for Bush. The lesson to be learned was "Don't run a complete loser, who your own voters don't like", but with the help of their corporate media lackeys, they managed to make the lesson "Don't ever vote for anyone except a D, no matter how bad they are or how much you have to compromise you integrity to do it.".
    I'm not "blaming" Nader. Bass was talking about 3rd-party candidates, so I got curious over whether 3rd-party candidates received enough votes to actually swing an election. Was surprised by what I found - Nader in 2000 and Johnson in 2016 actually received more votes than I remembered.

    Again - not blaming anyone. was just curious about the numbers. And, - as I said in my post - without polling every individual voter, there is no way to know for sure how the Nader voters in 2000 or the Johnson voters in 2016 would have gone. Sure, I suspect some of the Nader voters might have voted for Gore - but there is at least a possibility that some of them were nominal Republicans or Libertarians who might have voted for Bush.

    FWIW, I interviewed Nader about 25 years ago when he gave a speech at UW-Platteville. he gave a small-market radio guy quite a bit of his time, for which I was grateful.

  15. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by cncmin View Post
    Explain. (Note that literally, you are false, again.)
    I mean, you make my points for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by cncmin View Post
    Wrong. So very wrong. I care about all corruption, very, very unlike you. And I care about the mounds and mounds of corruption of the current POTUS, of whom you couldn't shower more praise if he was asking you to drink the Kool Aid himself, Cult Follower.
    You care about the corruption of Trump and GOP, you don't care about corruption of the Dems.

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