Tre Williams' Mom critical of fans who are critical of Pitino's in-state recruiting

The blue bloods recruit the best players in the nation or abroad. It doesn’t matter if they live in Antarctica. We are not a blue blood and top players in the country aren’t going to give us a foot in the door. If we want to get better we have to keep the top in state talent which has been difficult to do. Her comparison is not even logical.

It is the coaches job to find really good players no matter where they are from, develop them and to build them into a team. The U has found the majority of the best players in school history from out of state.
 

I totally get where Tre Williams mother is coming from. Message boards can be dangerous and damaging to recruits. Grant it some of the worst posts are from trolls.
 

She is right. Yes it would be great to get awesome in state recruits, but kids seem to like to go elsewhere, especially if it is blueblood. I'm from chicago and played baseball at minnesota. I cant say enough about minnesota and Minneapolis, but I'm not from there so I cant speak for people that live there.
 

I can definitely understand her concerns I mean just look at last season on how fans treat 2 players differently. Coffey running the point falling down time and time again turning the ball over and over. Fans don’t say a word about it because he was from Minnesota. IW comes in makes plays easy baskets for others picks up the pace of play then takes one bad shot and everyone rips him to shreds! Definitely double standards with where guys are from.
 

Great assessment. One is a borderline NBA-level player. The other is going to be headed to a low-major program so he can get some minutes.
 


I can definitely understand her concerns I mean just look at last season on how fans treat 2 players differently. Coffey running the point falling down time and time again turning the ball over and over. Fans don’t say a word about it because he was from Minnesota. IW comes in makes plays easy baskets for others picks up the pace of play then takes one bad shot and everyone rips him to shreds! Definitely double standards with where guys are from.

I disagree. IW was an enigma to both fans and coaches. But the overall sentiment on this board was displeasure toward Pitino for not playing him more.

The perception that a Minnesota kid should stay home and become a hometown "hero" is nonsense. Once the players see the court, the best players get the most attention/adulation regardless of where they grew up before hitting the court at the U of M. Go back and read some of the game day threads when Joey King (Minnesota kid) played here. It was brutal. Compare that to the comments geared toward Bobby Jackson (non-Minnesota kid). Performance is what matters the most.
 

It is the coaches job to find really good players no matter where they are from, develop them and to build them into a team. The U has found the majority of the best players in school history from out of state.

Of course we have. We can’t get the highest rated kids from MN to stay home.
 

I disagree. IW was an enigma to both fans and coaches. But the overall sentiment on this board was displeasure toward Pitino for not playing him more.

The perception that a Minnesota kid should stay home and become a hometown "hero" is nonsense. Once the players see the court, the best players get the most attention/adulation regardless of where they grew up before hitting the court at the U of M. Go back and read some of the game day threads when Joey King (Minnesota kid) played here. It was brutal. Compare that to the comments geared toward Bobby Jackson (non-Minnesota kid). Performance is what matters the most.

I don't recall King getting ripped much, but I do think being a MN kid mattering to fans is over-stated. It matters a little on the margins but that's it.
 




I don't recall King getting ripped much, but I do think being a MN kid mattering to fans is over-stated. It matters a little on the margins but that's it.

Yeah. I think Al Nolen and Rodney Williams were pretty underrated by Gopher fans.

Even now.
 

What was that practice facility for again? Five star recruits were going to be banging on the door to get in. Oops.
 

Of course we have. We can’t get the highest rated kids from MN to stay home.

I'm actually curious as to what EXACTLY the folks who complain the most about Pitino not locking down the highest rated Minnesota kids think he should be doing or telling them? I hear the term full-court press. What, EXACTLY does everybody think that entails? Let's say that I'm a top 50 high school senior from Minnesota. Although I'm kind of interested in playing at home, I'm not absolutely not locked into it. Playing in front of friends and family at home is not in the top 2-3 things I'm concerned with. I'm not as worried about the Gophers as I am about myself and my playing career/education. With those parameters, what EXACTLY do posters believe that Pitino MUST tell me or promise me to convince me to stay home. Obviously, you don't want to commit any NCAA violations. I'd honestly like to hear specifically what you would say or do if you were the one recruiting me to stay in Minnesota.
 

I'm actually curious as to what EXACTLY the folks who complain the most about Pitino not locking down the highest rated Minnesota kids think he should be doing or telling them? I hear the term full-court press. What, EXACTLY does everybody think that entails? Let's say that I'm a top 50 high school senior from Minnesota. Although I'm kind of interested in playing at home, I'm not absolutely not locked into it. Playing in front of friends and family at home is not in the top 2-3 things I'm concerned with. I'm not as worried about the Gophers as I am about myself and my playing career/education. With those parameters, what EXACTLY do posters believe that Pitino MUST tell me or promise me to convince me to stay home. Obviously, you don't want to commit any NCAA violations. I'd honestly like to hear specifically what you would say or do if you were the one recruiting me to stay in Minnesota.
Ya go to UMN or your parents and loved ones may mysteriously go missing...[emoji6][emoji16][emoji41]
 



:clap:
Ya go to UMN or your parents and loved ones may mysteriously go missing...[emoji6][emoji16][emoji41]

I guess that, technically, that isn't an NCAA violation. :) But I am honestly curious as to what the folks who bag on this subject the most would actually say or do to get "me-the top 50 recruit" to play for the Gophers under the parameters I described. I'm a little skeptical that anyone will be able to come up with anything that these guys, who do this for a living, haven't thought of and/or tried. Remember, if you're major/best selling point is that I should stay because I'm from Minnesota and it's my home state university, you're definitely losing me.
 

Define highest rated. Only #1?

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Program changers like Hurt, Suggs, Trey and Tyus etc. it’s the golden age of MN basketball talent. I’m not saying we need to get them all to stay home. It would be nice to get a few and take the program to the next level.
 

I'm actually curious as to what EXACTLY the folks who complain the most about Pitino not locking down the highest rated Minnesota kids think he should be doing or telling them? I hear the term full-court press. What, EXACTLY does everybody think that entails? Let's say that I'm a top 50 high school senior from Minnesota. Although I'm kind of interested in playing at home, I'm not absolutely not locked into it. Playing in front of friends and family at home is not in the top 2-3 things I'm concerned with. I'm not as worried about the Gophers as I am about myself and my playing career/education. With those parameters, what EXACTLY do posters believe that Pitino MUST tell me or promise me to convince me to stay home. Obviously, you don't want to commit any NCAA violations. I'd honestly like to hear specifically what you would say or do if you were the one recruiting me to stay in Minnesota.

Im not a recruiter and I don’t know what I would say. I would need to write an essay and formulate my thoughts. If Fleck were the basketball coach I bet you he could convince one of the Blue chips to stay home. Personally I think it’s the style of play, maybe it has to do with fan base. I remember when the barn used to be rocking and you could feel the excitement.
 

:clap:

I guess that, technically, that isn't an NCAA violation. :) But I am honestly curious as to what the folks who bag on this subject the most would actually say or do to get "me-the top 50 recruit" to play for the Gophers under the parameters I described. I'm a little skeptical that anyone will be able to come up with anything that these guys, who do this for a living, haven't thought of and/or tried. Remember, if you're major/best selling point is that I should stay because I'm from Minnesota and it's my home state university, you're definitely losing me.

Pretty standard pitch is to show them how they will be used, ask them if they want to be part of something that has never been done here. Show them the other pieces you have. Talk to them about the incredible development that they will get here. That the U is a tremendous school in a great city. Show them the historic Williams arena, show them the available playing time. Show the player you care about them as people on and off the court. Show how they fit your offensive and defensive styles, tell them what is expected. There in lies the issues as everyone else shows them these things and compares themselves to us. Any coach will highlight every category including winning and development. When people say full court press, the best they can do is be in attendance early and constant. It is really super difficult which highlights the coaches ability or lack there of to be a fantastic coach. These kids are smart and highly competitive and are always talking about how great a coach so and so is and you prove it by winning. Unless they want to stay home you get them early or you lose them to a better program. This is why you need the keenest eye to unearth players no one else sees their value. Look at UVA, they can not recruit like Duke but they get early, recruit to a identity and find fits. They started a freshman point guard rated 300 plus with one offer to UC Davis ! They missed on their 1st 5 point guard choices.
 

Program changers like Hurt, Suggs, Trey and Tyus etc. it’s the golden age of MN basketball talent. I’m not saying we need to get them all to stay home. It would be nice to get a few and take the program to the next level.
Like Coffey, Oturu, Kalscheur, etc?

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Program changers like Hurt, Suggs, Trey and Tyus etc. it’s the golden age of MN basketball talent. I’m not saying we need to get them all to stay home. It would be nice to get a few and take the program to the next level.

You wonder what would have happened if the 2009-2010 team hadn't gotten blown up and made a Sweet 16 or better and Tubby hadn't given up.
 

Ultimately, the vast % of blue-chip players tend to choose schools with established programs - schools that are almost guaranteed to start the season in the top 20. Schools that will play most of their games on Nat'l TV in big showcase games.

And - to be clear - schools that have a realistic shot of winning a national championship.

What can Pitino - or any coach outside of the inner circle - say to get a blue-chip kid to buck the tide?

Pitino can offer playing time. And - for the rare kid who might consider it - a chance to be a trailblazer and help put a program in the national spotlight.

But that is a tough sell when Calipari or Coach K can show off the final four banners, National Titles, and the roster of #1 draft picks.

The deck is stacked against programs like MN.

Sad, but true.
 

Ultimately, the vast % of blue-chip players tend to choose schools with established programs - schools that are almost guaranteed to start the season in the top 20. Schools that will play most of their games on Nat'l TV in big showcase games.

And - to be clear - schools that have a realistic shot of winning a national championship.

What can Pitino - or any coach outside of the inner circle - say to get a blue-chip kid to buck the tide?

Pitino can offer playing time. And - for the rare kid who might consider it - a chance to be a trailblazer and help put a program in the national spotlight.

But that is a tough sell when Calipari or Coach K can show off the final four banners, National Titles, and the roster of #1 draft picks.

The deck is stacked against programs like MN.

Sad, but true.

And for some reason we get pissed when Pitino doesnt get these guys. All he can do is recruit them and make a big push for them. If they decide to go elsewhere then nothing you can do.
 

Like Coffey, Oturu, Kalscheur, etc?

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If you think Coffey is a program changer I’d beg to differ. Everyone you listed above is not nearly as good as the aforementioned. I like Gabe and Oturu. Coffey is so inconsistent. He has a few good games in a row and then disappears for just as many if not more.
 

Of the 27 guys rated as five stars on 24/7 sports 11 chose their home state school with four still undecided. so that is nearly half the guys who chose to stay home. Playing at home is a big draw but I think more important is the belief in the coach.
 

Ultimately, the vast % of blue-chip players tend to choose schools with established programs - schools that are almost guaranteed to start the season in the top 20. Schools that will play most of their games on Nat'l TV in big showcase games.

And - to be clear - schools that have a realistic shot of winning a national championship.

What can Pitino - or any coach outside of the inner circle - say to get a blue-chip kid to buck the tide?

Pitino can offer playing time. And - for the rare kid who might consider it - a chance to be a trailblazer and help put a program in the national spotlight.

But that is a tough sell when Calipari or Coach K can show off the final four banners, National Titles, and the roster of #1 draft picks.

The deck is stacked against programs like MN.

Sad, but true.

Find 3 and 4 star guys that are 5 star kids. The math on a 5 star is a joke. In any year there are about 25. After Duke, Kentucky, UNC ,Kansas, UCLA, ARIZONA ARE DONE THAT LEAVES ABOUT 10. Now you still have IU, MSU, CUSE, Michigan, now Memphis, Auburn, Tenn, Texas, Oregon fighting for the rest. But there is another way. You identify early guys way undervalued because their intangibles were not measured. So you find a Brogdon, Harris, Hunter, Jerome and you find out later that those guys out perform 22 of those 25 five stars in their class ! This takes a keen eye and a incredible connection of personalities and values, they fit what you do well. Fans would serve themselves well by trowing away the internet rankings. There is only one guy of all the sites that is any good at it and that is Eric Bossy. Coaches never use those rankings but they do talk with Eric on what he sees in the bushes.
 

Of the 27 guys rated as five stars on 24/7 sports 11 chose their home state school with four still undecided. so that is nearly half the guys who chose to stay home. Playing at home is a big draw but I think more important is the belief in the coach.

Let's take a closer look at those five-star players, and where they ended up.

I'm only seeing nine who chose their home state school (based on their high school), as opposed to 13 who went elsewhere. Five are still uncommitted, but of those five, only one is considered to have a 50% of remaining at home.

Of those nine that stayed home, one went to blue blood Duke, while three went to perennially strong teams Arizona, Texas and Florida. You could consider Indiana a legacy blue blood. That means only three non-powerhouse schools kept five-star players at home (Memphis, Georgia and USC, which kept two Californians at home).

Stayed home
Memphis
Georgia
Arizona*
USC (2)
Indiana*
Duke*
Texas*
Florida*

Of the 13 five-stars that went out-of-state, only two went to teams that weren't blue bloods or perennial powers (Washington and Tennessee).

Elsewhere
Duke (2)*
Washington
Kentucky (3)*
Arizona*
Florida*
Villanova (2)*
Tennessee
North Carolina*
West Virginia*

Looking at this, I see nothing that leads me to blame Pitino for the alleged lack of success recruiting in-state kids. (I use "alleged" because I'm quite happy to see Coffey, Oturu, Kelscher, Omersa and the elder Hurt in Gopher uniforms.)

I'll go further. I fully expect the Gophers to be knocking on the door of the perennial powerhouse club in the next 3-4 years. If the 2017-18 season hadn't been derailed by injuries, we'd already be halfway there.

I'm as disappointed as anyone we haven't had more kids stay home, but you have to acknowledge that keeping those guys is the exception, rather than the norm.

JTG
 
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If you think Coffey is a program changer I’d beg to differ. Everyone you listed above is not nearly as good as the aforementioned. I like Gabe and Oturu. Coffey is so inconsistent. He has a few good games in a row and then disappears for just as many if not more.
I'm just pointing out the weakness of your argument. None of these players are a guaranteed program transformer; Coffey, Oturu, etc were all highly recruited, highly anticipated recruits. Tre went to Duke and wasnt cutting down a net from a championship despite having one of the most loaded team in recent years. Had he gone to MN there isnt assurances that the Gophers are transformed. I'd rather see Pitino get talent from around the country and pull in an occasional top MN recruit that actually dreams of playing for the U than getting bent out of shape for losing some to other programs.

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Im not a recruiter and I don’t know what I would say. I would need to write an essay and formulate my thoughts. If Fleck were the basketball coach I bet you he could convince one of the Blue chips to stay home. Personally I think it’s the style of play, maybe it has to do with fan base. I remember when the barn used to be rocking and you could feel the excitement.

Quinn Carroll and Bryce Benhart say hello.
 

Let's take a closer look at those five-star players, and where they ended up.

I'm only seeing nine who chose their home state school (based on their high school), as opposed to 13 who went elsewhere. Five are still uncommitted, but of those five, only one is considered to have a 50% of remaining at home.

Of those nine that stayed home, one went to blue blood Duke, while three went to perennially strong teams Arizona, Texas and Florida. You could consider Indiana a legacy blue blood. That means only three non-powerhouse schools kept five-star players at home (Memphis, Georgia and USC, which kept two Californians at home).

Stayed home
Memphis
Georgia
Arizona*
USC (2)
Indiana*
Duke*
Texas*
Florida*

Of the 13 five-stars that went out-of-state, only two went to teams that weren't blue bloods or perennial powers (Washington and Tennessee).

Elsewhere
Duke (2)*
Washington
Kentucky (3)*
Arizona*
Florida*
Villanova (2)*
Tennessee
North Carolina*
West Virginia*

Looking at this, I see nothing that leads me to blame Pitino for the alleged lack of success recruiting in-state kids. (I use "alleged" because I'm quite happy to see Coffey, Oturu, Kelscher, Omersa and the elder Hurt in Gopher uniforms.)

I'll go further. I fully expect the Gophers to be knocking on the door of the perennial powerhouse club in the next 3-4 years. If the 2017-18 season hadn't been derailed by injuries, we'd already be halfway there.

I'm as disappointed as anyone we haven't had more kids stay home, but you have to acknowledge that keeping those guys is the exception, rather than the norm.

JTG

Good post


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I'm just pointing out the weakness of your argument. None of these players are a guaranteed program transformer; Coffey, Oturu, etc were all highly recruited, highly anticipated recruits. Tre went to Duke and wasnt cutting down a net from a championship despite having one of the most loaded team in recent years. Had he gone to MN there isnt assurances that the Gophers are transformed. I'd rather see Pitino get talent from around the country and pull in an occasional top MN recruit that actually dreams of playing for the U than getting bent out of shape for losing some to other programs.

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Imagine if Tyus and Rashad stayed home, add them to what he had then, and I’m willing to bet we could have made it through to the elite 8. Imagine the excitement and buzz it would have created among fans and future recruits. Maybe a Hurt and Trey would have been more apt to stay home. In my opinion we would have had a better shot at landing them. I can’t speculate about Suggs because he hasn’t committed to anyone. Yeah i’m speculating but it’s not hard to imagine the effect it would have had on future recruits, the direction of the program, and bringing the barn back to a filled house where it was one of the toughest arenas to play. It’s not that I dislike Pitino or hate Pitino. I’m not a supporter of Pitino. I don’t think he is the right coach to get us there. It’s been six years and his B1G record is not good. His overall record is a bit inflated because of non conference games. I love the U, and I also want them to be better than they are. We don’t need to be a blue blood, but we could be right below that. There’s no reason that we can’t be a Syracuse, Gonzaga, UConn, Villanova, Ohio state, and Maryland. Maybe my expectations are too high though. That’s how I feel.
 
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