Tre Williams' Mom critical of fans who are critical of Pitino's in-state recruiting

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golfing18now said:
Recruiting Minnesota kids should be viewed in two different tiers. The first tier of players (ranked in the top 40 or so nationally) are no more likely to commit here than a blue blood. It doesn't matter who the coach is. I'm talking about the Tyus/Tre/Hurt/Suggs level recruit. We fixate on those kids because of their talent but how much evidence do we need to see that those kids don't stay and play for their home school? We have had one kid sign here in the last twenty five years at that level (Humphries) and it was a complete disaster. Pitino has done a good job recruiting the next tier of Minnesota players in the 50-200 range (Oturu/Coffey/Jarvis/Omersa/Kalscheur/Hurt). We have also seen a number of those kids leave the State and not exactly look like program changing players. The goal should be to find players like Tre Williams in the top 50-200ish (Murphy/Mason) level. We just need more of them to fill out a roster.
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Smart post! I would argue that the state of the program, long term will make those top 40 guys go one way or another. We have had this recent surge of guys but there have not been that many over the years. Off the top of my head I would list:

90's El Amin, Jacobson, Pryz (if Pryz was top 40?) 2/3
2000-2009 Boone, Rickert, Hump, Royce 2/4
2010 - Tyus, Tre, Trent, Hurt 0-4

Now look at that history- Boone, Jacobson and El Amin were four year players. The rest left college as fast as they came. Not really a way to build a program.
 

Wasn't Rodney a 5* at one point? And I'm pretty sure Amir was close before the injury.

It does seem like eons ago when Dutcher had the #1 recruiting class in the country. With no Minnesotans.
 

if Pitino signed some 5* or high 4* kid from out-of-state, virtually no one would complain.

The issue is when the top MN kids leave the state and the Gophers wind up with 3* level kids who are perceived as less talented than the MN kids who turned down the Gophers - or didn't even consider the Gophers.

I'm not saying it's easy. But we have talked endlessly about some of Pitino's issues with roster management. The way to change the dialogue is to bring in better talent.

I realize Murphy was hurt in the NCAA game, but compare the Gophers' roster to Michigan State. Is anyone going to claim the Gophers have better overall talent?

I don't hate Pitino. but at some point, if the Gophers are going to be a serious player in the B1G, he has to bring in better talent. I don't care if the players come from MN or Timbuktu - just bring in better talent, and all the questions and second-guessing will go away.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I think we have all been universally happy that Tre Williams committed here.

That said, I think his mom is a little off base. The U of MN's only chance at a top 20 player is if he is local. It's probably not even a real chance.

Duke isn't recruiting outside of the state of North Carolina because they aren't landing the best in-state kids. They are recruiting outside of North Carolina because they don't have room for the in-state kids.

I understand where Tre's mother is coming from and I wish she wouldn't take it as a slight. As far as message boards go, this is a pretty benign group. People are annoyed that the coach isn't landing the best in-state kids in '19 or '20. Those subtle complaints are simply part of college basketball. It's part of every single fan base in college sports. This board is not toxic, IMO.
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+1. If a program like MN fails to recruit in-state kids, they become Nebraska. No one is saying they must comprise the entire team or that you have to get the top guy every year, but it must be the base of your roster.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
if Pitino signed some 5* or high 4* kid from out-of-state, virtually no one would complain.

The issue is when the top MN kids leave the state and the Gophers wind up with 3* level kids who are perceived as less talented than the MN kids who turned down the Gophers - or didn't even consider the Gophers.

I'm not saying it's easy. But we have talked endlessly about some of Pitino's issues with roster management. The way to change the dialogue is to bring in better talent.

I realize Murphy was hurt in the NCAA game, but compare the Gophers' roster to Michigan State. Is anyone going to claim the Gophers have better overall talent?

I don't hate Pitino. but at some point, if the Gophers are going to be a serious player in the B1G, he has to bring in better talent. I don't care if the players come from MN or Timbuktu - just bring in better talent, and all the questions and second-guessing will go away.
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This is the biggest thing about the argument. If the gophers were getting 5* guys from other states nobody would care. The hometown 5* guys are our only real chance at getting any and we aren't getting them. If its 3* in state vs 3* out state nobody really cares. We've had plenty of good 3* and 4* out of state guys come through the program that many of us would rather have than the equal "ranked" in state guys.

But when it comes to 5* guys our best chance is keeping local kids home and it isn't happening.
 


tmvander said:
This is the biggest thing about the argument. If the gophers were getting 5* guys from other states nobody would care. The hometown 5* guys are our only real chance at getting any and we aren't getting them. If its 3* in state vs 3* out state nobody really cares. We've had plenty of good 3* and 4* out of state guys come through the program that many of us would rather have than the equal "ranked" in state guys.

But when it comes to 5* guys our best chance is keeping local kids home and it isn't happening.
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But it isn't happening anywhere. Do the research. It's not a valid criticism. Every program not named Duke/Kansas/Kentucky/North Carolina and a few others would have the same complaint.
 

golfing18now said:
But it isn't happening anywhere. Do the research. It's not a valid criticism. Every program not named Duke/Kansas/Kentucky/North Carolina and a few others would have the same complaint.
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Won't argue that...but I would argue that it is a team's best chance at getting one...local kid or some sort of tie to the university.
 

I think part of the perception that Pitino is failing in Mn recruiting is that every MN coach before him has gotten a 5 star Mn kid. Tubby had Royce, Monson had Rickert and hump. Clem had Pryzbilla and Jacobson. So far Pitino is 0 for with plenty more opportunities than the others.
 

PlayRoyce said:
I think part of the perception that Pitino is failing in Mn recruiting is that every MN coach before him has gotten a 5 star Mn kid. Tubby had Royce, Monson had Rickert and hump. Clem had Pryzbilla and Jacobson. So far Pitino is 0 for with plenty more opportunities than the others.
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That's fair.

I would say that the program has lost more and more luster over time so that kids- in this day and age are more likely to leave town for the shiniest program. Plus we live in the era of the Lebron James posse where kids grow up thinking that you get together with other stars and you set up an all star squad to win. I think it is tougher, given the current state of things, recruiting, AAU, etc. to keep those hometown kids without real family loyalty to the hometown squad or unless the hometown team is a contender.
 



If everyone needs to be nice to Pitino. Tre's mom is going to help deliver Suggs. We dont want to piss her off.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I think we have all been universally happy that Tre Williams committed here.

That said, I think his mom is a little off base. The U of MN's only chance at a top 20 player is if he is local. It's probably not even a real chance.

Duke isn't recruiting outside of the state of North Carolina because they aren't landing the best in-state kids. They are recruiting outside of North Carolina because they don't have room for the in-state kids.

I understand where Tre's mother is coming from and I wish she wouldn't take it as a slight. As far as message boards go, this is a pretty benign group. People are annoyed that the coach isn't landing the best in-state kids in '19 or '20. Those subtle complaints are simply part of college basketball. It's part of every single fan base in college sports. This board is not toxic, IMO.
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This board is toxic! How many "Anti-Pitino" type threads have we had just this season? Dozens! Just about every "game" thread gets very toxic.
 

alchemy2u said:
This board is toxic! How many "Anti-Pitino" type threads have we had just this season? Dozens! Just about every "game" thread gets very toxic.
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It's all relative. Have you been to other fan boards?
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
If everyone needs to be nice to Pitino. Tre's mom is going to help deliver Suggs. We dont want to piss her off.
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Perhaps Tre's mom and Eric Curry's mom should head up recruiting from now on.
 




alchemy2u said:
This board is toxic! How many "Anti-Pitino" type threads have we had just this season? Dozens! Just about every "game" thread gets very toxic.
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There has to be a middle ground between "Pitino is the worst coach in the world" and "Pitino is the best coach in the world." Nothing is that black and white.

Again, there is a lot that I like about Pitino. He seems like a decent guy. I'd like to sit down and have dinner with him or just shoot the sh*t.

But that does not mean that I suspend any critical judgement of his performance as the Gopher coach. There are aspects that he needs to improve in. Saying someone needs to get better is not the same as saying "I hate him" or "fire him."
 

Keyser Söze said:
It's all relative. Have you been to other fan boards?
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They are mostly the same. The complaining is pointless as it relates to recruiting. Fans keep referencing 5 stars but After Murph finished his career i would rate him as out performing nearly every 5 star in his class. Fans everywhere do this. The flip side is lets say we get Suggs or Hurt , those same fans will guarantee a final 4. I actually ignore the recruit ranking and i am more interested where coaches rank recruits, how much did they win when i look back.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
There has to be a middle ground between "Pitino is the worst coach in the world" and "Pitino is the best coach in the world." Nothing is that black and white.

Again, there is a lot that I like about Pitino. He seems like a decent guy. I'd like to sit down and have dinner with him or just shoot the sh*t.

But that does not mean that I suspend any critical judgement of his performance as the Gopher coach. There are aspects that he needs to improve in. Saying someone needs to get better is not the same as saying "I hate him" or "fire him."
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Of course, critical judgment is everyone's prerogative. But many times it goes way beyond inform, critical judgment and gets right down into irrational hostility.
 

Although Tre's mom makes a good point, I'm not sure if she does herself any favors taking shots at the base of lifelong Gopher fans before her son even suits up for the first time. Maybe she needs to build an emotional bank account with our fanbase before calling them out like this.

Her point, of course, is well taken. No argument from me that we will take all comers who want to be Gophers no matter where they're from. That said, the amount of talent being produced around here--not to mention the under-the-radar sleepers we can identify--is an opportunity that this program owes itself and us to exploit. As I've pointed out before, the 1997 team was what it was in great part because of Jacobson, Thomas and Winter. The Final Eight team several years earlier isn't the same without Lynch and Bob Martin. Successful Gopher teams are practically always going to have some local component.
 

SPEGOPHER said:
Thrilled her son is committed here, but she is way off base. Comparing Duke and NC to us in recruiting strategy is apples to oranges. The gophers do not have anything close to national appeal for recruits like the blue blood schools. Schools like MN need in-state talent to come here because that is our best chance to get recruits above our pay grade (coffee, Oturo, etc.) and stay for the duration of their college career (Jelly, Gilbert, Martin, Jamir). Of course, no rational fan would care where our players came from if Pitino was bringing in highly-rated out of state talent. The problem is he isn’t, this year especially. Those out of state whiffs just magnify his in state misses, because, for example, if WSU can convince Sheffield to stay home, how come Pitino can’t keep any of our boys home with our brand new facility?

He has time to fix the mess that is our current roster (with non-MN kids it would appear) but I don’t get how more people aren’t concerned about the number of recruiting battles Pitino has lost this year. He seems to be a charismatic young coach with a brand new facility. Especially for a coach who isn’t exactly a X & O guru, I’d expect recruiting to be much stronger in year 7. All that said, I Hope and think Tre will have an outstanding career here.
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It just never ends...[emoji849]

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

Bad Gopher said:
Although Tre's mom makes a good point, I'm not sure if she does herself any favors taking shots at the base of lifelong Gopher fans before her son even suits up for the first time. Maybe she needs to build an emotional bank account with our fanbase before calling them out like this.

Her point, of course, is well taken. No argument from me that we will take all comers who want to be Gophers no matter where they're from. That said, the amount of talent being produced around here--not to mention the under-the-radar sleepers we can identify--is an opportunity that this program owes itself and us to exploit. As I've pointed out before, the 1997 team was what it was in great part because of Jacobson, Thomas and Winter. The Final Eight team several years earlier isn't the same without Lynch and Bob Martin. Successful Gopher teams are practically always going to have some local component.
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Good insight, Bad. I like her spunk and I agree with her assessment, but she needs to build up some capital first. Glad to have her enthusiasm on board.
 

Just got off the phone with AJ Barker's Mom's best friend and she agrees with Tre's Mom.
 


Holy Man said:
Good insight, Bad. I like her spunk and I agree with her assessment, but she needs to build up some capital first. Glad to have her enthusiasm on board.
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Disagree! She makes an outside observation about some of the whining that goes on about the program. She is entitled to her opinions just as you are to yours.

It is dangerous for a parent to start a dialogue with the faceless trolls of the internet. It can only lead to no good.

Can we just show some class, and let her slide on this one? If your Mom went on the internet and defended your choice to become a sanitation engineer, would you want people to pick her apart?


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alchemy2u said:
Disagree! She makes an outside observation about some of the whining that goes on about the program. She is entitled to her opinions just as you are to yours.

It is dangerous for a parent to start a dialogue with the faceless trolls of the internet. It can only lead to no good.

Can we just show some class, and let her slide on this one? If your Mom went on the internet and defended your choice to become a sanitation engineer, would you want people to pick her apart?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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That would be a job for recycling...[emoji57]
 


alchemy2u said:
Disagree! She makes an outside observation about some of the whining that goes on about the program. She is entitled to her opinions just as you are to yours.

It is dangerous for a parent to start a dialogue with the faceless trolls of the internet. It can only lead to no good.

Can we just show some class, and let her slide on this one? If your Mom went on the internet and defended your choice to become a sanitation engineer, would you want people to pick her apart?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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With you all the way on this one and believe me it does nothing but good to have parents supporting.
 

The blue bloods recruit the best players in the nation or abroad. It doesn’t matter if they live in Antarctica. We are not a blue blood and top players in the country aren’t going to give us a foot in the door. If we want to get better we have to keep the top in state talent which has been difficult to do. Her comparison is not even logical.
 

So recruits read these boards? It doesn't matter if it's mama or dada reading it, the stuff gets back to the player.


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Bob_Loblaw said:
I think we have all been universally happy that Tre Williams committed here.

That said, I think his mom is a little off base. The U of MN's only chance at a top 20 player is if he is local. It's probably not even a real chance.

Duke isn't recruiting outside of the state of North Carolina because they aren't landing the best in-state kids. They are recruiting outside of North Carolina because they don't have room for the in-state kids.

I understand where Tre's mother is coming from and I wish she wouldn't take it as a slight. As far as message boards go, this is a pretty benign group. People are annoyed that the coach isn't landing the best in-state kids in '19 or '20. Those subtle complaints are simply part of college basketball. It's part of every single fan base in college sports. This board is not toxic, IMO.
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Bingo. This is why parents shouldn't read message boards.
 


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