KFAN Korzo says Coffee will NEVER return to Minnesota

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Bob_Loblaw said:
You don't think our roster could have been managed better? Are you kidding me?

Marcus Carr's waiver was an absolute crap shoot. Everyone knew it, people were about 50/50 on this board as to whether or not he'd get a waiver. You act as if Pitino should have no way of knowing that we'd be without Carr.

We had a team with 1 PG on the roster. IW had not set the world on fire and his development was a bit of a hope and prayer. It looked it could go either way at the beginning of the year, but it going poorly was always a possibility with IW.
Carr was a crap shoot.

We didn't have even a mediocre PG as a safety net.

Could you imagine our lack of depth if Gabe would have been just a typical FR (if he was as far along as Omersa)?
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I don't disagree with your main point, but I don't see how you can question Pitino's roster management with hypotheticals like "what if one of the player's he recruited and coached was actually bad".
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Yep and many have failed.

We knew there was a decent chance we wouldn't have this year. We didn't and we were w/o a PG. That's Pitino's fault.
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Pitino had more than zero options for PG other than Coffey...he chose not to give IW more than a short leash. But there was a good passer on the bench this season

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Keyser Söze said:
I don't disagree with your main point, but I don't see how you can question Pitino's roster management with hypotheticals like "what if one of the player's he recruited and coached was actually bad".
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I don't.

I was just pointing out that sometimes people are slightly better than expected (Gabe) and sometimes they are slightly worse than expected (IW).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You don't think our roster could have been managed better? Are you kidding me?

Marcus Carr's waiver was an absolute crap shoot. Everyone knew it, people were about 50/50 on this board as to whether or not he'd get a waiver. You act as if Pitino should have no way of knowing that we'd be without Carr.

We had a team with 1 PG on the roster. IW had not set the world on fire and his development was a bit of a hope and prayer. It looked it could go either way at the beginning of the year, but it going poorly was always a possibility with IW.
Carr was a crap shoot.

We didn't have even a mediocre PG as a safety net.

Could you imagine our lack of depth if Gabe would have been just a typical FR (if he was as far along as Omersa)?
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Yeah, you're right, should've brought Tre Jones on board. Heck, we should've beefed up the front court with Zion as well
 


MDGopherFan said:
Pitino had more than zero options for PG other than Coffey...he chose not to give IW more than a short leash. But there was a good passer on the bench this season

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I wish I would have seen the same IW that so many posters on here talk about.
 

Tommy Flanagan said:
Yeah, you're right, should've brought Tre Jones on board. Heck, we should've beefed up the front court with Zion as well
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You think because I wanted a roster with a capable PG that I think Pitino should have gotten Zion? Really? Is that really what you think?

I would have settled for an average or slightly worse than average college PG. But you're right, that's pie in the sky. I dream too big.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You think because I wanted a roster with a capable PG that I think Pitino should have gotten Zion? Really? Is that really what you think?

I would have settled for an average or slightly worse than average college PG. But you're right, that's pie in the sky. I dream too big.
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Coffey wasn't good enough for you?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You think because I wanted a roster with a capable PG that I think Pitino should have gotten Zion? Really? Is that really what you think?

I would have settled for an average or slightly worse than average college PG. But you're right, that's pie in the sky. I dream too big.
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It's clear you cant stand Richard and want him gone. We understand. Move along.....
 





Bob_Loblaw said:
He was great. He just was a wing and we played him at PG because our roster was mismanaged.
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Imagine replaying the last season - only, instead of 2 transfers sitting out the season in Carr and Willis, one of those spots had instead gone to a FR PG, a Juco PG or a Grad Transfer PG who was good enough to play at least 10-15 minutes a game.

Could that have made the difference in 1 or 2 more victories - leading to a better seed in the Conf tournament, and a better seed in the NCAA tournament?

That is directly due to roster management - or mismanagement. If you're going to give the coach credit for moves/recruits that worked, you also have to be willing to criticize moves/recruits that didn't work as well.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I wish I would have seen the same IW that so many posters on here talk about.
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Reread my comment...I said good passer. I did not say great shooter, amazing passer, etx but IW showed flashes as a PG; he just never got the playing time to grow. We can have difference of opinion there, but Pitino did have options to free up Coffey from that load.

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Bob_Loblaw said:
You think because I wanted a roster with a capable PG that I think Pitino should have gotten Zion? Really? Is that really what you think?

I would have settled for an average or slightly worse than average college PG. But you're right, that's pie in the sky. I dream too big.
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It was sarcasm. Not sure what some people want on here. Im a huge Gopher fan but we are not the mecca of basketball. Pitino has recruited 3 highly rated point guards(Jarvis, Dorsey, IW) and one that came from a top program (Nate Mason). They didn't all work out. We are not the type of program yet that can just run out and grab a player of need. The hope was to have Carr and IW. It didn't work. If Pitino would have brought in another point, we wouldn't have gotten Carr, or we would not have gotten Stull. Then some on here would complain about his roster management that we have too many point guards and not enough SGs.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Imagine replaying the last season - only, instead of 2 transfers sitting out the season in Carr and Willis, one of those spots had instead gone to a FR PG, a Juco PG or a Grad Transfer PG who was good enough to play at least 10-15 minutes a game.

Could that have made the difference in 1 or 2 more victories - leading to a better seed in the Conf tournament, and a better seed in the NCAA tournament?

That is directly due to roster management - or mismanagement. If you're going to give the coach credit for moves/recruits that worked, you also have to be willing to criticize moves/recruits that didn't work as well.
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If IW had taken the next step and built on his last 10-15 games of his freshman season as we all expected he would, the Gophers would have had a more than competent starter at the point. Dupree and Amir could have been utilized for the other ten minutes. An approval of the Carr waiver would have just been a bonus at that point.

The development of IW is the bigger issue in my opinion. Whether that falls on Pitino or IW or both is where the culpability lies more so than this "roster mismanagement" conversation.
 

golfing18now said:
If IW had taken the next step and built on his last 10-15 games of his freshman season as we all expected he would, the Gophers would have had a more than competent starter at the point. Dupree and Amir could have been utilized for the other ten minutes. An approval of the Carr waiver would have just been a bonus at that point.

The development of IW is the bigger issue in my opinion. Whether that falls on Pitino or IW or both is where the culpability lies more so than this "roster mismanagement" conversation.
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Nailed it. At least the part in bold. The opportunity was there, and Washington failed to seize it.

In response to your last sentence, the culpability lies primarily with Washington.

If IW goes on to light up the college basketball world elsewhere, I'm obviously wrong.

JTG
 

golfing18now said:
If IW had taken the next step and built on his last 10-15 games of his freshman season as we all expected he would, the Gophers would have had a more than competent starter at the point. Dupree and Amir could have been utilized for the other ten minutes. An approval of the Carr waiver would have just been a bonus at that point.

The development of IW is the bigger issue in my opinion. Whether that falls on Pitino or IW or both is where the culpability lies more so than this "roster mismanagement" conversation.
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This

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Bob_Loblaw said:
He was great. He just was a wing and we played him at PG because our roster was mismanaged.
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Who was Virginia’s pt guard last night? Please people start understanding the idea of position-less basketball.
 


manderson1984 said:
Who was Virginia’s pt guard last night? Please people start understanding the idea of position-less basketball.
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You mean players who can flex to multiple positions and not positionless basketball, yes?

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manderson1984 said:
Who was Virginia’s pt guard last night? Please people start understanding the idea of position-less basketball.
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Lol. People playing out of position is a thing, whether you want to believe it or not.
 

Keyser Söze said:
Lol. People playing out of position is a thing, whether you want to believe it or not.
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Players don’t limit themselves to a “position” anymore. Most offenses aren’t numbered 1-5 either. Wings, and a post/2 posts at most. Offenses involve actions that are mainly read based. Good shots are only based on an individuals skill sets not because of the “position” they play. Amirs skills allow him to be a ball dominant wing. Who cares if it does doesn’t involve him bringing the ball up in a non transition offensive possession?
 


Can someone go out back and put this thread out of its misery? It's genesis was a lazy talking head poaching his Gopher-hoops takes from anonymous trolls on the Internet.

Either Coffey gets assurances from a NBA team that he has a chance to maker their roster or he doesn't and he returns to Minnesota where he can make one last tournament push as a senior.

Any other speculation is bogus
 

manderson1984 said:
Players don’t limit themselves to a “position” anymore. Most offenses aren’t numbered 1-5 either. Wings, and a post/2 posts at most. Offenses involve actions that are mainly read based. Good shots are only based on an individuals skill sets not because of the “position” they play. Amirs skills allow him to be a ball dominant wing. Who cares if it does doesn’t involve him bringing the ball up in a non transition offensive possession?
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I understand what you're trying to say, but people take this a little too far sometimes. Certain roles need to be filled. You can't just throw any random combo of 5 players on the floor and call it good. Every team needs at least one guy on the floor who can consistently handle the ball under pressure and initiate the offense. For communication purposes, let's apply a label to this guy. How about, say, "point guard". Amir was forced to play "point guard" even though he struggles with those things sometimes, therefore, he played out of position.
 

Keyser Söze said:
I understand what you're trying to say, but people take this a little too far sometimes. Certain roles need to be filled. You can't just throw any random combo of 5 players on the floor and call it good. Every team needs at least one guy on the floor who can consistently handle the ball under pressure and initiate the offense. For communication purposes, let's apply a label to this guy. How about, say, "point guard". Amir was forced to play "point guard" even though he struggles with those things sometimes, therefore, he played out of position.
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Who was Virginia’s PG then? They must have 3 of them in playing at once. What about James Harden or Durant? I’m saying Amir had those skills and did just fine. Sure it’d be nice to have him on the wing, but he’s wanted to and played that type of “position” in your words his whole basketball career except for his first two years in college.
 

Lakers612 said:
Can someone go out back and put this thread out of its misery? It's genesis was a lazy talking head poaching his Gopher-hoops takes from anonymous trolls on the Internet.

Either Coffey gets assurances from a NBA team that he has a chance to maker their roster or he doesn't and he returns to Minnesota where he can make one last tournament push as a senior.

Any other speculation is bogus
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Unfortunately I don't think they were trolling when they posted those rumors.
 

Lakers612 said:
Can someone go out back and put this thread out of its misery? It's genesis was a lazy talking head poaching his Gopher-hoops takes from anonymous trolls on the Internet.

Either Coffey gets assurances from a NBA team that he has a chance to maker their roster or he doesn't and he returns to Minnesota where he can make one last tournament push as a senior.

Any other speculation is bogus
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It’s only bogus because you disagree with the concept that perhaps Coffee does not like the chemistry, his role, and the fact that there is zero upside for him not to start making some money playing either in the NBA, D league, or Europe.
 

manderson1984 said:
Who was Virginia’s PG then?
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Mostly Ty Jerome from what I saw, but I only watched like 1 and a half of their games

manderson1984 said:
They must have 3 of them in playing at once.
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No one said only 1 player was allowed to handle the ball. There is a difference between position flexibility and saying positions don't exist.

manderson1984 said:
What about James Harden or Durant?
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...what about them?


I guess if we had Murphy breaking the press by himself and initiating the offense every play while Isaiah Washington posted up on the block, they wouldn't have been playing out of position, because playing out of position isn't a thing :rolleyes:


I'm not saying Amir playing PG was a disaster, but he's better at shooting off the catch than off the dribble and he struggles to get by smaller/quicker defenders. He's great in transition when he has a full head of steam, but when he tries to get by someone from a standstill position like you often have to at PG, he struggles because he doesn't have an explosive first step. This can make the offense stagnant.

If a player is forced to play a role where they are playing to their weaknesses instead of playing to their strengths, they are playing out of position.
 

I'm going to break up this post and address it accordingly

millions2spare said:
It’s only bogus because you disagree with the concept that perhaps Coffee does not like the chemistry, his role,
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wrong. it's bogus because no reputable journalist has reported it. not one. I'm not going to base my opinions and perceptions of the program off of an anonymous Gopherhole post. The anti-Pitino posters on this board have gotten enough wrong this year for me to understand the quality of their "inside sources" and hot takes.

millions2spare said:
[It’s only bogus because you disagree with] the fact that there is zero upside for him not to start making some money playing either in the NBA, D league, or Europe.
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notice how in my post I said Coffey will go if he "gets assurances from a NBA team that he has a chance to make their roster." I didn't say he needed to be selected in the NBA draft in order for him to pull the trigger. There are a lot of players on two-way contracts in the NBA/G-League right now that are making an impact and earning themselves a roster spot in the NBA.

I can definitely see a team telling Coffey, "hey, we might not select you in the 2nd round, but we will make you a high-priority undrafted free agent and you will have the opportunity to compete for one of our two-way contracts."

If that's the case then I expect Coffey to think long and hard about returning to college.
 
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