STrib: MIAC rivals plot ouster of St. Thomas

Well if you want to get technical, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio, Maryland, and New Jersey are Big Ten states with only one P5 team in the state. If you expand to include the Big East as a “P” in basketball, then indeed Minnesota and Maryland are the only ones.

I suppose an argument could be made that Navy is a pretty major football program. But that’s as close as it gets. Johns Hopkins has DI lacrosse.
 


Well if you want to get technical, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio, Maryland, and New Jersey are Big Ten states with only one P5 team in the state. If you expand to include the Big East as a “P” in basketball, then indeed Minnesota and Maryland are the only ones.

I suppose an argument could be made that Navy is a pretty major football program. But that’s as close as it gets. Johns Hopkins has DI lacrosse.

Georgetown is one I'd say close enough to be considered in state for Maryland. MN has been spoiled by lack of competition and has led to some entitlement in my opinion. Competition typically brings in a better product. It might benefit the U and keep them more accountable.
 

Well if you want to get technical, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio, Maryland, and New Jersey are Big Ten states with only one P5 team in the state. If you expand to include the Big East as a “P” in basketball, then indeed Minnesota and Maryland are the only ones.
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True as to borders, but Georgetown is about a 25 minute drive from Maryland.
 

Well if you want to get technical, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio, Maryland, and New Jersey are Big Ten states with only one P5 team in the state. If you expand to include the Big East as a “P” in basketball, then indeed Minnesota and Maryland are the only ones.

I suppose an argument could be made that Navy is a pretty major football program. But that’s as close as it gets. Johns Hopkins has DI lacrosse.

True, I was including the Big East as a "P" conference. One could successfully argue with relation to hoops, they are in the Top 5, well ahead of the Pac 12.
 


It's pretty well established the St. Olaf president is the main guy behind this. He didn't like getting beat 97-0 in football, and now we're here.

Agreed. Bad behavior fosters more bad behavior and human nature can't help itself. I would also guess there's a lot of stuff below the surface that none of us know about that is driving this, and if we did know about it, we would roll our eyes and sigh.

Having played basketball in the MIAC, I can tell you that from a competitive standpoint, there always has been the have's and the have nots. That's not new. What's new IMO is the money aspect; others in this thread have referenced it, but the lower-tier athletic schools (ST OLAF, Carleton, Macalester) have administrations that generally do not like sports (for the most part always been the case). ST Thomas, ST Johns, Bethel, and some of the others have administrations that like sports and invest in programs, hiring good coaches, recruiting, financial aid for athletes, etc. Losing by 60+ points in football doesn't help but it's a money thing and the options are secede from the union or boot one school out of the union.
 

Agreed. Bad behavior fosters more bad behavior and human nature can't help itself. I would also guess there's a lot of stuff below the surface that none of us know about that is driving this, and if we did know about it, we would roll our eyes and sigh.

Having played basketball in the MIAC, I can tell you that from a competitive standpoint, there always has been the have's and the have nots. That's not new. What's new IMO is the money aspect; others in this thread have referenced it, but the lower-tier athletic schools (ST OLAF, Carleton, Macalester) have administrations that generally do not like sports (for the most part always been the case). ST Thomas, ST Johns, Bethel, and some of the others have administrations that like sports and invest in programs, hiring good coaches, recruiting, financial aid for athletes, etc. Losing by 60+ points in football doesn't help but it's a money thing and the options are secede from the union or boot one school out of the union.

It couldn't just maybe be put a little more resources into your sports so you don't get killed as often? Think about how many MN high school kids could play at some of these MIAC schools that aren't already playing college sports, or are going somewhere else. I guess if Olaf, Carleton, and Mac don't want to put any effort into something, why would you get upset when you get smoked?

There are plenty of kids that could fit their athletic and academic mold, they just don't care about athletics at all, which is fine. You can call it values or whatever and that's fine but Christ at least make something somewhat watchable.
 
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Maryland doesn't have another P5 team.

I think of Maryland as an ACC interloper. In the good old days of the 80's & 90's Georgetown played their home games in Landover, MD.
 

Agreed. Bad behavior fosters more bad behavior and human nature can't help itself. I would also guess there's a lot of stuff below the surface that none of us know about that is driving this, and if we did know about it, we would roll our eyes and sigh.

Having played basketball in the MIAC, I can tell you that from a competitive standpoint, there always has been the have's and the have nots. That's not new. What's new IMO is the money aspect; others in this thread have referenced it, but the lower-tier athletic schools (ST OLAF, Carleton, Macalester) have administrations that generally do not like sports (for the most part always been the case). ST Thomas, ST Johns, Bethel, and some of the others have administrations that like sports and invest in programs, hiring good coaches, recruiting, financial aid for athletes, etc. Losing by 60+ points in football doesn't help but it's a money thing and the options are secede from the union or boot one school out of the union.

Carleton and St. Olaf wouldn't be considered lower-tier athletic schools in the MIAC. Over the last five years Carleton's average conference finish in the Learfield Director's Cup is 2nd and St. Olaf's is 4th. If you were putting the MIAC in tiers based on athletic performance over the past 5 years it would be:

Tier 1: St. Thomas
Tier 2: Carleton, Gustavus, St. John's, St. Olaf, St. Ben's, Augsburg
Tier 3: Bethel, St. Kate's, Hamline, Concordia, Macalester
Tier 4: St. Mary's
 



Georgetown is one I'd say close enough to be considered in state for Maryland. MN has been spoiled by lack of competition and has led to some entitlement in my opinion. Competition typically brings in a better product. It might benefit the U and keep them more accountable.

I knew I was forgetting someone! Yes, Georgetown counts as "P" competition for Maryland, especially since the main UMD campus is closer to DC than Baltimore.

So yeah, pretty much leaves Minnesota.


Actually pretty interesting how well the Big East and Big Ten line up, when you look at it.
Nebraska - Creighton
Wisconsin - Marquette
Northwestern/Illinois - DePaul (OK, not a great example)
IU/Purdue - Butler
OSU - Xavier
Penn St - Villanova
Maryland - Georgetown
Rutgers - Seton Hall (and St John's just across the river)


If the Big Ten ever picked up UConn for expansion, there would be Providence as well.

Conceivably, decades from now, St Thomas and maybe Drake could be a pair? They need to pick-up St Louis U as a bridge to Creighton.
 

Agreed. Bad behavior fosters more bad behavior and human nature can't help itself. I would also guess there's a lot of stuff below the surface that none of us know about that is driving this, and if we did know about it, we would roll our eyes and sigh.

Having played basketball in the MIAC, I can tell you that from a competitive standpoint, there always has been the have's and the have nots. That's not new. What's new IMO is the money aspect; others in this thread have referenced it, but the lower-tier athletic schools (ST OLAF, Carleton, Macalester) have administrations that generally do not like sports (for the most part always been the case). ST Thomas, ST Johns, Bethel, and some of the others have administrations that like sports and invest in programs, hiring good coaches, recruiting, financial aid for athletes, etc. Losing by 60+ points in football doesn't help but it's a money thing and the options are secede from the union or boot one school out of the union.

The interesting thing would be if St Olaf, Carleton, and MAC left to form something like the NESCAC in the north central part of the country. Someone referenced this idea either in this thread or the version on the football forum. Maybe Hamline, Augie, St Kate's, and St Mary's would go too?

The others generally seem interested in spending big (relative to DIII) in sports and being nationally competitive.
 

I think of Maryland as an ACC interloper. In the good old days of the 80's & 90's Georgetown played their home games in Landover, MD.

It's going to take decades/generations for the Big Ten's investment in Maryland/DC to payoff in full.

If they could grasp their hands around U of Virginia, that would help. Won't be for some time though, with the ACC's Grant of Rights for TV rights.
 

The interesting thing would be if St Olaf, Carleton, and MAC left to form something like the NESCAC in the north central part of the country. Someone referenced this idea either in this thread or the version on the football forum. Maybe Hamline, Augie, St Kate's, and St Mary's would go too?

The others generally seem interested in spending big (relative to DIII) in sports and being nationally competitive.

St. Norbert is leaving the Midwest Conference for the Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference beginning in 2020. With St. Norbert's departure, I imagine the MWC would welcome Carelton, Mac, and St. Olaf back with open arms. Those three would help in planning logistics for baseball, softball, basketball, and volleyball. It's not likely to happen, which is too bad for the MWC. The conference has seen too many schools come and go over the past 15 years.
 



STrib: Augsburg president 'reluctantly supports' removing St. Thomas from MIAC

Augsburg President Paul Pribbenow believes a consensus has formed among MIAC schools to remove St. Thomas from the conference and "reluctantly supports" that decision, according to e-mails obtained by the Star Tribune.

In an exchange with an Augsburg supporter, Pribbenow wrote that several schools have threatened to leave the MIAC in recent years. He said he wants "the MIAC to remain as whole as is possible," even if it means St. Thomas must be expelled.

"My sense is that we have reached a consensus that will keep 12 schools together in the MIAC and that we will support St. Thomas's efforts to find a new conference home," Pribbenow replied to the Augsburg supporter, who wrote to express his opposition to removing St. Thomas. "I can assure you that if we had not reached this *consensus, the MIAC would have imploded, leaving all of us in a far less attractive position."

The Star Tribune reported last month that some MIAC presidents were moving to oust St. Thomas from the league it helped found 99 years ago. At an April 18 meeting, the presidents of the MIAC's 13 member schools deferred any decision on the Tommies' future in the conference, saying they would continue discussions at future meetings.

Pribbenow's assistant said he was out of town and referred a request for further comment to a college spokesperson, who did not respond to an e-mail. A phone call and e-mail to Carleton President Steven Poskanzer were answered by athletic department spokesman Dave Pape, who said his school would not be commenting publicly.

The presidents at other MIAC schools, including St. Thomas, St. Olaf, Hamline and Gustavus, did not respond to e-mails and phone calls requesting comment.

http://www.startribune.com/augsburg...ists-to-remove-st-thomas-from-miac/509752432/

Go Gophers!!
 

Hearing rumors St Kate’s wants st Thomas to stay.

If st Kate’s and Concordia want UST to stay, it is pretty tough to get 9 votes.
Pretty clear that St Johns and Bethel want UST to stay
 

If they can’t get 9 votes, the conference may break up anyways. But UST, St. John’s, bethel, Concordia, st Kate’s, and the others who choose to stay would get to keep the MIAC name and brand.

If people dropped out, there may be others who want to join to raise their profile such as Iowa or Wisconsin private colleges.
 

If they can’t get 9 votes, the conference may break up anyways. But UST, St. John’s, bethel, Concordia, st Kate’s, and the others who choose to stay would get to keep the MIAC name and brand.

If people dropped out, there may be others who want to join to raise their profile such as Iowa or Wisconsin private colleges.
Universities from outside Minnesota kind of negates the use of MIAC as a conference name.
 

Universities from outside Minnesota kind of negates the use of MIAC as a conference name.

For sure.

That’s why the big ten changed their name.
That’s why the SEC refused to invite Missouri.




Keeping the conference name and brand is more about maintaining conference records, tradition, and prestige than about the name.
At the D1 level it is about money. Probably not true at the d3 level.
 

For sure.

That’s why the big ten changed their name.
That’s why the SEC refused to invite Missouri.




Keeping the conference name and brand is more about maintaining conference records, tradition, and prestige than about the name.
At the D1 level it is about money. Probably not true at the d3 level.

Holy balls, you actually think a piss ant D3 conference in Minnesota is going to worry about worthless records when only 5 schools are left? And comparing a limp dick D3 conference to the SEC and B1G is funny.
But hey, keep pimping that thought about the MIAC.
 

Holy balls, you actually think a piss ant D3 conference in Minnesota is going to worry about worthless records when only 5 schools are left? And comparing a limp dick D3 conference to the SEC and B1G is funny.
But hey, keep pimping that thought about the MIAC.

I wasn’t comparing the conferences. I was comparing your quibble with names.


UST, St. John’s, bethel, and Concordia want to stick together.

St. John’s would rather win their 34th MIAC football title than their first _______ conference title.

Is that simple enough to understand?


The reporting is lacking and has many gaps in info so it is tough to know exactly what is happening. But the reporting has me believing there is a group of more than 2 schools at the bottom who are saying boot st Thomas or we are out. So the conference is breaking up in some form. So now it’s a matter of how many are going each direction (1 up?, 3-5 down?) and who gets to keep what from the old conference.



Yes the 5 schools who hold all the records care about the records. Believe it or not but the MIAC does mean something to many people in the state and the twin cities. Which is why both papers and KfAn have devoted time to covering it. There are listeners and readers out there.
 
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Good Lord, please let this thread die!

Oops...
 


Holy balls, you actually think a piss ant D3 conference in Minnesota is going to worry about worthless records when only 5 schools are left? And comparing a limp dick D3 conference to the SEC and B1G is funny.
But hey, keep pimping that thought about the MIAC.

I disagree completely, there is as much tradition and history if not more in the MIAC than the SEC or the B1G, just because scale is smaller does not mean the people care less, I think they care more about that than the average B1G or SEC fan.
 


UST, St. John’s, bethel, and Concordia want to stick together.

Then do it, in DII.

Bethel probably belongs there all the same as ST. It wants to grow it’s church school brand, grow the size of the school, be a comprehensive university. That’s DII.

Concordia would be a bit out of place institutionally, but heir football team would be fine. Would get the Moorhead St rivalry back.

SJ combined with SB is the second largest enrollment in the MIAC. Very silly not to combine them. Would be fun watching them beat St Cloud in football, to go along with trouncing them in attendance.
 

Then do it, in DII.

Bethel probably belongs there all the same as ST. It wants to grow it’s church school brand, grow the size of the school, be a comprehensive university. That’s DII.

Concordia would be a bit out of place institutionally, but heir football team would be fine. Would get the Moorhead St rivalry back.

SJ combined with SB is the second largest enrollment in the MIAC. Very silly not to combine them. Would be fun watching them beat St Cloud in football, to go along with trouncing them in attendance.

We are having two different discussions.
You’re discussing what teams should do.
I am discussing what is happening.
 

Some guy - you seem to be advancing the idea that the conference is going to "break up."

Maybe this is semantics, but if St. Thomas leaves, and the rest of the schools stay, I do not see that as "breaking up." I see that as one team leaving - or being forced to leave. The MIAC did not "break up" when UMD left.

If we believe the Augsburg President, he sees it as trying to save the conference and prevent a break-up. And the cost of saving the conference is the expulsion of St. Thomas. Now, if three or four teams left, you could call that a "break-up." But, it certainly appears that a majority of the teams in the MIAC are in agreement. when all is said and done, I believe there will still be an MIAC conference. it may have a slightly different configuration, but the conference will continue to exist.
 

I am discussing what is happening.

In your mind, that is. You don’t have an iota of a clue what is happening, at the moment. Just like the rest of us, you’ll find out the decision when it is announced.
 

SON, save your fingers.

Some guy is only here to tell everyone that they’re wrong, with no evidence. Then when he turns out to be wrong, he’ll piss off into the night.
 

SON, save your fingers.

Some guy is only here to tell everyone that they’re wrong, with no evidence. Then when he turns out to be wrong, he’ll piss off into the night.

For sure.
I have no idea what I’m talking about. Nor does anyone. Even the reporters don’t.
Nobody has any sources. Even for the strib it’s almost all hearsay

The hearsay i hear is that there are 4 at the bottom threatening to cut and run if you don’t cut st Thomas. The 4 at the top (including st Thomas) would rather keep st Thomas in. Now it is all posturing. We will see how it works out.


I do actually know from people high up at UST in the last fundraising that as of about 2013 there was no desire to move beyond d3. They decided to Build Top of the line d3 facilities rather than d1 facilities. This may have all changed post-dienhart
 




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