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  1. #1

    Default STrib: MIAC rivals plot ouster of St. Thomas

    per STrib:

    There have been complaints from selected MIAC rivals for nearly a decade over the enrollment gap and the athletic success that considerably favors St. Thomas. Now those complaints have turned into a full-fledged effort to have St. Thomas expelled from the league.

    There will be a meeting of the 13 school presidents on April 18 to decide whether to move forward with this action, according to sources close to the situation. The school presidents would then take a final vote in late May, with nine votes required to expel St. Thomas. If it passes, the Tommies could be forced out after the 2020-21 school year.

    First, however, the MIAC schools must vote to change the league bylaws. Currently, the lone reason for expelling a school is unethical or illegal conduct, and there are no such claims against St. Thomas. The anticipated strategy for the anti-St. Thomas votes would be to add a clause — perhaps a limit on enrollment — and then declare St. Thomas as not fitting the league’s profile, two sources said.

    St. Thomas has 6,200 undergraduates, double the number of St. Olaf, the next-largest of the nine football-playing schools.

    http://www.startribune.com/miac-riva...mas/508145182/

    Go Gophers!!


  2. #2

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    These things happen in high school all the time. Not sure I've ever seen it on the college level. Usually it's the other direction. Conferences compete to attract better teams. Seems bizarre to me. Don't all conferences have teams that float around the top most of the time in most sports? Sounds like petty jealousy. For 30 years, St. Thomas had slightly smaller enrollments but bigger than the rest, and a lot of advantages in terms of location and football was middling. No gripes then. They upgraded their coaching. Maybe all teams that hire really good coaches should get bounced from the league.

  3. #3

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    Glenn Caruso is underemployed which is the primary issue and why this has reached this point. I think the rest of the MIAC could handle dominance in basketball, but their performance in both sports has made it a tough sell to the other schools.

    BTW was Olaf complaining when Meidt was HC?
    Last edited by goldengophers; 04-05-2019 at 10:43 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Man View Post
    These things happen in high school all the time. Not sure I've ever seen it on the college level. Usually it's the other direction. Conferences compete to attract better teams. Seems bizarre to me. Don't all conferences have teams that float around the top most of the time in most sports? Sounds like petty jealousy. For 30 years, St. Thomas had slightly smaller enrollments but bigger than the rest, and a lot of advantages in terms of location and football was middling. No gripes then. They upgraded their coaching. Maybe all teams that hire really good coaches should get bounced from the league.
    Amen.

    If you can't beat 'em, kick 'em out of your conference. Weak, weak move by the MIAC presidents.

    Not surprised at all St. Olaf and Carleton are two of the main schools behind this push to punt Tommies out of the MIAC. Wussies.

  5. #5

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    I would have thought a more sensible option would be for football to break into divisions.

  6. #6

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    It's just that St. Thomas is an odd fit with the MIAC. Much larger in terms of enrollment (and yes, that matters in D3 sports) and spend a lot more money on athletics than the other schools. The other schools have different philosophies when it comes to athletics and it is becoming increasingly clear that UST isn't a good fit. There is nothing wrong with the way UST approaches things, it just doesn't align with the rest of the conference.

    Carleton, Macalester, and St. Olaf have been looking into forming an athletics conference with the other ACM schools (Luther, Grinnell, Cornell, Coe, Ripon, Lawrence, Beloit, Lake Forest, Knox, Monmouth, and Colorado College) for years and the only hold-up is that they'd have to travel 3-4 hours to most schools vs the 45 min or less commute they have to most right now. If there isn't a change made I could see the MIAC breaking up in the coming years.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ope3 View Post
    I would have thought a more sensible option would be for football to break into divisions.
    It's not just about football, it's applies to pretty much all sports.

  8. #8

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    A few questions come to mind, having attended a MIAC school that excelled in some sports:
    There are a lot of mid-majors with enrollment levels less than St. Thomas.
    Why is the U the only D1 in Minnesota?
    Isn't St. Thomas more comparable to Drake than St. Olaf? or Carleton?
    I think it would be great if St. Thomas became a mid major program, and it fits their focus.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight View Post
    A few questions come to mind, having attended a MIAC school that excelled in some sports:
    There are a lot of mid-majors with enrollment levels less than St. Thomas.
    Why is the U the only D1 in Minnesota?
    Isn't St. Thomas more comparable to Drake than St. Olaf? or Carleton?
    I think it would be great if St. Thomas became a mid major program, and it fits their focus.
    St. Thomas likely goes Big East if they ever become D1.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldengophers View Post
    St. Thomas likely goes Big East if they ever become D1.
    I don't think they'd make that kind of jump right off the bat. Going from D3 (even though they already are more similar to some D2 programs in many sports) to a Power 6 conference would be a huge leap, and there would be a ton of money involved. Missouri Valley would make a lot of sense with Drake/Loyola/Valpo as fairly comparable schools.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzle22 View Post
    It's not just about football, it's applies to pretty much all sports.
    True, but football is the sport that poses a health risk. St Thomas 3rd string would (and does) mop up the Oles & Knights starters.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight View Post
    A few questions come to mind, having attended a MIAC school that excelled in some sports:
    There are a lot of mid-majors with enrollment levels less than St. Thomas.
    Why is the U the only D1 in Minnesota?
    Isn't St. Thomas more comparable to Drake than St. Olaf? or Carleton?
    I think it would be great if St. Thomas became a mid major program, and it fits their focus.
    Will not happen. That conversation happens outside the university once in a while and people with no connection think its a good idea. Few if any in the university have the same idea. It's a massive undertaking in time and money that they don't, understandably, want to invest. St. Cloud, Duluth, and Mankato would be far better candidates for mid-major D-1 sports than St. Thomas.

  13. #13

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    St. Thomas and the schools on the lower end of the MIAC are simply playing different games, reflecting different and both entirely defensible philosophies; it's simply not a good fit any more, and I think the St. Thomas people have to know that. The question is whether they can avoid having this blow up the entire conference in every sport.

    IIRC, St. Thomas actually did a study on moving up and decided it wasn't really feasible for them. An obvious reason would be facilities - they would need to expand their football and basketball facilities quite a bit, and they are landlocked and in a pretty much constant state of war with St. Paul neighborhood groups as it is over their expansions (and the problems caused by their drunken students).

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzle22 View Post
    It's just that St. Thomas is an odd fit with the MIAC. Much larger in terms of enrollment (and yes, that matters in D3 sports) and spend a lot more money on athletics than the other schools. The other schools have different philosophies when it comes to athletics and it is becoming increasingly clear that UST isn't a good fit. There is nothing wrong with the way UST approaches things, it just doesn't align with the rest of the conference.

    Carleton, Macalester, and St. Olaf have been looking into forming an athletics conference with the other ACM schools (Luther, Grinnell, Cornell, Coe, Ripon, Lawrence, Beloit, Lake Forest, Knox, Monmouth, and Colorado College) for years and the only hold-up is that they'd have to travel 3-4 hours to most schools vs the 45 min or less commute they have to most right now. If there isn't a change made I could see the MIAC breaking up in the coming years.
    Even if they don't align, why should the conference care what one individual member's values are? Or do they just want to kick them out so they can have a crappy league with inflated records that get destroyed in the playoffs?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzle22 View Post
    It's just that St. Thomas is an odd fit with the MIAC. Much larger in terms of enrollment (and yes, that matters in D3 sports) and spend a lot more money on athletics than the other schools. The other schools have different philosophies when it comes to athletics and it is becoming increasingly clear that UST isn't a good fit. There is nothing wrong with the way UST approaches things, it just doesn't align with the rest of the conference.

    Carleton, Macalester, and St. Olaf have been looking into forming an athletics conference with the other ACM schools (Luther, Grinnell, Cornell, Coe, Ripon, Lawrence, Beloit, Lake Forest, Knox, Monmouth, and Colorado College) for years and the only hold-up is that they'd have to travel 3-4 hours to most schools vs the 45 min or less commute they have to most right now. If there isn't a change made I could see the MIAC breaking up in the coming years.
    One could argue the endowment of Macalester and Carleton is just as "unfair" as UST having a higher enrollment. I work at an ACM school and don't understand how enrollment = success. UST's an urban school that benefits from the metro population.

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