STrib: MIAC rivals plot ouster of St. Thomas

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Siouxfan said:
Providence has less than 40% of UST’s endowment and enrollment, but they have done fine in basketball and hockey, even exceeding the Gophers a lot.

When posters here say I’m a dopehead, it just proves how small minded they are.

Most major cities have multiple schools that are DI. Minnesota has but one for the whole state.
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St. Thomas can have success at the D-1 level, that isn't what people are skeptical about.

It's the part where a secret society of St. Thomas Illuminati used the Jedi mind trick to get the rest of the MIAC Presidents to take the heat for their secret plan.
 

WoodburyTim said:
St. Thomas can have success at the D-1 level, that isn't what people are skeptical about.

It's the part where a secret society of St. Thomas Illuminati used the Jedi mind trick to get the rest of the MIAC Presidents to take the heat for their secret plan.
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Let's be clear, they are the Knights Templar, not the Illuminati. You trying to start a gang war??? [emoji3166]
 

Siouxfan said:
Posted this several weeks ago in the BBall forum, but St Thomas is heading for at least the MVC and maybe the Atlantic 10 or Big East.

St Thomas is no longer a liberal arts school with allegiance to the MIAC. Think they asked to get kicked out so that would satisfy the fans that want to stay DIII.

St Thomas looks like Creighton or Loyola Chicago or Marquette. It’s not Macalester or St Olaf but a STEM, law and business school now and needs to upgrade its standing in those areas nationally.

Hockey can go DI immediately and the other sports will follow by eight years per NCAA rules.

Ideally, an 6000 seat arena should be built near Allianz Field for hockey and basketball. Maybe their rink at Mendota Heights can be expanded, but that’s not a central area, while Allianz is on the metro line.

See St Thomas joining the NCHC with Arizona St. It might take a few years but Arizona St is only now building its on campus arena.

St Thomas will spend eight years in the NSIC DII per rules and then seek DI. The Summit League will offer them, but the MVC offers them after they finish the transition, as the MVC is too stuck up to offer a DII school. The Big East would be the real prize as St Louis U has a major endowment and would like another school out west, Dayton is too close to Xavier so Dayton doesn’t meet the Big East specs. The Twin Cities offers a huge TV market that the Big East would want.

Could foresee some UST games at XCel Center.

The MIAC has been so secretive as they want to do St Thomas a favor. The Gophers will have some local competition.

Private schools in the north most often offer non scholarship DI, like Drake, Valpo, Georgetown etc, so that should not be an issue for the Gophers.
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Goph33 said:
I didn’t call you a dope head and I’m not close minded. I think you brought up a lot of great points. Yes MN should be able to have more than 1 d1 considering Iowa has 4. Yes, st Thomas has a big enough enrollment for probs mid major d1. However, MIAC schools didn’t kick St Thomas out as a favor as they already don’t like them and they risked and did get them terrible media publicity. Also UST was happy d3. UST didn’t want to leave the MIAC because if they did they’d need to cut several sports. Also rumored Caruso (fb coach)doesn’t really want to deal with athletic scholarships and it would cost the school a lot of money considering the expensive tuition...UST definitely could afford it though.
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Especially considering his experience at the dakotas as a coordinator he has likely passed on opportunities to move to Division II and/or FCS jobs.

He wants to be a d3 coach. At least he did 4-5 years ago.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Yes, Mac is competitive in several other sports in the MIAC and actually has an athletic budget near the top of the conference. For whatever reason, their football has seldom been competitive with the top half of the MIAC in recent memory (they had some tough teams for a brief time in the 80s). It probably comes down to the high number of student athletes required to field a good D3 football team (often way over 100) and Mac's high academic standards which preclude that in this market. Mac pulled its football team out of the MIAC for good reason and I doubt they want to return at this point.

There are competitive football teams at high academic schools out east (Johns Hopkins comes to mind and MIT to a lesser extent) but it might not be realistic in this market.
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MAC is an odd football program for D3 football.

They recruit fewer Minnesota kids than any other Minnesota d3 football program because there just aren’t enough MN kids who are d3 caliber football players who have the combination of grades for MAC and desire to go to MAC.

Some odd ducks in your classes at MAC
 


Some guy said:
MAC is an odd football program for D3 football.

They recruit fewer Minnesota kids than any other Minnesota d3 football program because there just aren’t enough MN kids who are d3 caliber football players who have the combination of grades for MAC and desire to go to MAC.

Some odd ducks in your classes at MAC
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Don't rip on Macalester too hard. Lee Nystrom was an absolute stud on some underperforming Macalester teams during his four years on campus. Actually played in the pros for Green Bay. Great player. Of course, that has nothing to do with the current conversation. Sorry, I'll leave now.

PS--For what it's worth. St. Thomas has always had a solid pipeline into the Catholic high schools in Wisconsin and Illinois and you'll see that if you check their rosters. Nothing wrong with that.
 
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So UST hired a former DI AD. Coincidence?

So this board knows the UST strategic plan?

So we should always trust the media to know everything and ask the right questions?
 

Siouxfan said:
So UST hired a former DI AD. Coincidence?

So this board knows the UST strategic plan?

So we should always trust the media to know everything and ask the right questions?
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Read into it as much as your heart desires. UST is his and his wife's alma mater, and it was a chance to move back home.
 

50PoundHead said:
Don't rip on Macalester too hard. Lee Nystrom was an absolute stud on some underperforming Macalester teams during his four years on campus. Actually played in the pros for Green Bay. Great player. Of course, that has nothing to do with the current conversation. Sorry, I'll leave now.

PS--For what it's worth. St. Thomas has always had a solid pipeline into the Catholic high schools in Wisconsin and Illinois and you'll see that if you check their rosters. Nothing wrong with that.
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Not really ripping MAC there. There own coaches would tell you they spend more time recruiting the coasts than Minnesota.

Which is odd for d3
 



PMWinSTP said:
Read into it as much as your heart desires. UST is his and his wife's alma mater, and it was a chance to move back home.
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And take them DI. If you have a well paying job, you don’t slip back to grammar school just because you went there.

UST won’t go scholarship football, so Caruso will just have to deal with scholarships in DII. But they have a nice field in Allianz and will still play St John’s in football.

If the MIAC presidents were so sore with UST, they would have been expressed I much more sore earlier, rather when there is suddenly an opening with Augustana leaving soon.

UST has lost most of its liberal arts credentials anyway as it is a STEM, business and law school. It doesn’t have much academic alignment with Hammline, Macalester and St Olaf.
 

Some guy said:
Not really ripping MAC there. There own coaches would tell you they spend more time recruiting the coasts than Minnesota.

Which is odd for d3
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I was mostly kidding. Mac has had some decent players even when they were getting waxed weekly. They just didn't have enough of them, which reinforces your point. I just wanted to point out that Nystrom was an extremely good football player.

Most every MIAC team has had a guy in at least a tryout camp at the pro level with a number of guys going on to play in the regular season in the NFL.
 

Siouxfan said:
UST has lost most of its liberal arts credentials anyway as it is a STEM, business and law school. It doesn’t have much academic alignment with Hammline, Macalester and St Olaf.
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Do you even know what UST has for a curriculum? This is false. UST requires tons of liberal arts classes. Yes they are known for business and engineering but they definitely are a liberal arts school in terms of the classes they require.
 

Maybe law school, med school and MBA, but they are are far sight from getting the %’s of grad students in the hard sciences or SJW soft and fake sciences of the MIAC.
Goph33 said:
Do you even know what UST has for a curriculum? This is false. UST requires tons of liberal arts classes. Yes they are known for business and engineering but they definitely are a liberal arts school in terms of the classes they require.
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Goph33 said:
Do you even know what UST has for a curriculum? This is false. UST requires tons of liberal arts classes. Yes they are known for business and engineering but they definitely are a liberal arts school in terms of the classes they require.
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He has no idea what he is talking about.

Meanwhile, even if it wasn’t a liberal arts school (it is), that would still have no bearing either way on what level of sport they should play
 

Some guy said:
He has no idea what he is talking about.

Meanwhile, even if it wasn’t a liberal arts school (it is), that would still have no bearing either way on what level of sport they should play
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A national STEM university does not want to.be DIII. There are tons of liberal arts schools that are DIII, and little notoriety is gained from that. UST wants to be known more nationally instead of just Minnie. The MSP media is incapable of critical thinking. UST itself was the source of most of the MSP media stories becahse UST wants to go beyond DIII.

The MIAC isn't threatened in the least by UST staying or leaving. The MIAC admin are always a mess anyways.

UST is much more like Creighton, Marquette, Loyola Chi, or DePaul than MIAC schools and its finally acting like it soon.

MIAC schools hate the STEM and business emphasis that UST has.
 
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Siouxfan said:
A national STEM university does not want to.be DIII. There are tons of liberal arts schools that are DIII, and little notoriety is gained from that. UST wants to be known more nationally instead of just Minnie. The MSP media is incapable of critical thinking. UST itself was the source of most of the MSP media stories becahse UST wants to go beyond DIII.

The MIAC isn't threatened in the least by UST staying or leaving. The MIAC admin are always a mess anyways.

UST is much more like Creighton, Marquette, Loyola Chi, or DePaul than MIAC schools and its finally acting like it soon.

MIAC schools hate the STEM and business emphasis that UST has.
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flat,550x550,075,f.u1.jpg
 

Siouxfan said:
So UST hired a former DI AD. Coincidence?

So this board knows the UST strategic plan?

So we should always trust the media to know everything and ask the right questions?
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St. Olaf has an AD with a D1 background as well.

I have no idea if St. Thomas wants to go D1 or what their strategic vision is, but I don't think the fact that UST hired an AD with a D1 background means much. If UST applies for a waiver from the NCAA to move directly to D1 (not even sure if it's possible) then I might put on a tin foil hat with you.

The media isn't really asking any questions at this point. Or they aren't pushing very hard for answers, because it's D3 and they don't really care that much. The coverage has been extremely one-sided, but that's mainly because there is an easy narrative to follow and the other schools aren't really doing anything to combat it.
 

Some guy said:
He has no idea what he is talking about.

Meanwhile, even if it wasn’t a liberal arts school (it is), that would still have no bearing either way on what level of sport they should play
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I haven't followed this part of Siouxfan's deal either. Their academic focus has little or noting to do with the level of athletic competition.
 

St Thomas will get major name recognition from moving to DI, including hockey. That could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising outside the Twin Cities, where it is known now. UST's growth can continue then.
St Olaf has name recognition outside Minnie from the Golden Girls, but that is fading, and it's mostly a Hick kind of publicity.

Live in TN, and Belmont's recognition has exploded since they went DI. Nashviille and Middle Tennessee have Belmont, Vanderbilt, Lipscomb, TN St, Middle Tennessee St, Austin Peay St,,and Tn Tech down the road and all are DI. Belmont is a music industry sçhool that helps Nashville's sound. Meanwhile, Minnesota secondary and private schools are just pissing away opportunity.
 
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Just an FYI I go to UST and the hen Ed’s I need to graduate are
3 theologies, 3 foreign language, 2 philosophies, 1 science with lab, 1 math, 1 history, and I believe like 1 fine arts and another. So yeah st Thomas is liberal arts education. However, it is most well known for engineering, business, and grad school
 

You guys do realize that even the U of MN requires students in College of Science and Engineering majors to take a certain amount of liberal arts courts, right?? Feel free to peruse, for example: https://cse.umn.edu/college/four-year-plans

So, yep, there you go, the University of Minnesota is really a liberal arts college, just like the University of St Thomas.
 

As far as DI goes, I have absolutely no idea if this "waiver" thing is legit. I guess we'll find out. My gut says no, but I also don't think it's impossible.

What I do know: both DII Northern Sun and DI Summit League would take St Thomas. As is. Zero questions asked. SO LONG as the school made the commitment to meet the minimum requirements, per the NCAA and the respective conference rules, of being at that level. There are certain minimum requirements regarding total number of scholarships offered, in DI. I'm pretty sure that's true. Not as sure on DII. But then each conference might have minimums, in the vein of ensuring a floor of competitiveness and financial commitment.

If ST has rich alumni that want a move up to happen, now is as good an opportunity as they're like to see in their lives. So either pony up, and make it happen, or deal with what happens otherwise.


As far as DIII options go, the Wisconsin conference just doesn't feel like a reasonable fit. Doesn't mean that isn't exactly what will happen. Just doesn't seem right.

American Rivers would be a better fit, but not sure if they have any interest.

Independent is off the table. And guessing UMAC is off the table.
 

Gophers_4life said:
You guys do realize that even the U of MN requires students in College of Science and Engineering majors to take a certain amount of liberal arts courts, right?? Feel free to peruse, for example: https://cse.umn.edu/college/four-year-plans

So, yep, there you go, the University of Minnesota is really a liberal arts college, just like the University of St Thomas.
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Every college requires some but the U doesn’t to the extent of st Thomas.
 

Goph33 said:
Every college requires some but the U doesn’t to the extent of st Thomas.
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Sure.

An actual liberal arts college only offers liberal arts classes, and only offers liberal arts majors. ST is, unquestionably, not that, and wants to be the opposite of that, as it has done for some time.


Of course that doesn't prove that they shouldn't be allowed to stay in DIII, per se, but it does show that they aren't a good fit for the MIAC anymore, in conjunction with location, enrollment, etc.
 

Allianz Field will never be a permanent home for any team but Minnesota United FC. Bank on it.
 


Gophers_4life said:
Sure.

An actual liberal arts college only offers liberal arts classes, and only offers liberal arts majors. ST is, unquestionably, not that, and wants to be the opposite of that, as it has done for some time.


Of course that doesn't prove that they shouldn't be allowed to stay in DIII, per se, but it does show that they aren't a good fit for the MIAC anymore, in conjunction with location, enrollment, etc.
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Woah I just learned macalester and st Olaf are not liberal arts schools
 




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