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MennoSota said:
He played against weak-ass competition in and around Rochester. Even his baby brother couldn't get out from under the scrub competition.
If you didn't see it, you weren't reading the recruiting topics for Michael on the GH. Many, like you now, couldn't spot a true shooter if the ACME neon sign were blinking at it. Michael never fixed his problem and at this level it got magnified.
One thing to point out about Pitino is that he has not recruited shooters (or if he has, they have rarely come) other than Gabe. I'm not sure why it's so hard for Minnesota to recruit shooters, but it is.
In any case, it was obvious Michael Hurt was going to struggle to shoot at this level.
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Jamir Harris was widely considered one of the best shooters of his class.

EDIT: should have read the entire thread before posting.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I would say beyond recruiting, it is more an issue of roster management. Recruiting two 'project' big men in the same year. having two transfers sitting out a year in the same season and not available.

I see people saying "the team doesn't have a bench," or "the team doesn't have a true point guard" and presenting that as reasons why the team didn't do better. Well, who is responsible for the bench? who recruits or doesn't recruit point guards? who decides whether to bring in transfers who have to sit out? The head coach and assistant coaches.

people are giving Pitino a pass on issues that he created or contributed to.

Look, I am NOT saying "fire the coach." I'm just saying hold the coach accountable for issues that he is directly responsible for.
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To be honest with you, I don't mind having a guy or two sitting out as a transfer. The 12th and 13th guys on the roster aren't going to play much, if at all. Why not have them in the program for a year without burning a year of eligibility if you identify the right players?
 

RolGnav said:
Well, name one player that didn't have "it" as a freshman that he made into an All-B10 player? Mason already had "it" as a freshman. Murphy already had "it" as a freshman. Sometimes, talent and determination just takes a person to the next level. Did LeBron have a hall of fame coach or something in High School to make him great? Gabe has "it." Oturu has "it." Did Pitino have that much to do with them being good already? He was brilliant enough to recruit them, yes. But just natural progression should make them even better and even all-b10 in a couple years. I could have coached those players from my couch and they'd still end up as All-B10. Yes, Pitino gets some credit, but with that, you have to also admit that there are some that have showed little to no improvement... like Hurt.
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If you have decided you are in the glass half empty mentality on Pitino, it is almost impossible to give him any credit for developing a player. The "it" factor. But if a player doesn't develop, then Pitino couldn't bring it out of him and the blame falls on him. Seems a little too convenient for me. Does work both ways.

By the way, at one point early in his Gopher career we talked about the "low motor Murphy". Haven't heard that recently. Maybe the "it" factor took awhile to surface.
 

MennoSota said:
Yep, I'm drawing a blank on the kid. He must have been memorable.
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Or you're not paying attention. I'm getting old and have short term memory issues, and even I can remember players from last year.
 

golfing18now said:
To be honest with you, I don't mind having a guy or two sitting out as a transfer. The 12th and 13th guys on the roster aren't going to play much, if at all. Why not have them in the program for a year without burning a year of eligibility if you identify the right players?
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Theoretically, I am with you. Our success in managing that in recent years has been bad, though. We have been caught short-handed at least twice in the last three years, and arguably three years in a row from injuries, suspensions, and end of the bench guys who really can't fill holes even in a desperate situation. Especially now, we need bodies that can compete right away. Big bodies. Count me as one who will be severely disappointed if we end up with sit out transfers in places of real need again this year. The sit out transfer can be helpful if you know you have enough bodies in front of them that meet the needs. We don't have that in the front court.
 


Holy Man said:
Or you're not paying attention. I'm getting old and have short term memory issues, and even I can remember players from last year.
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Good for you. The kid made no memory on me. Clearly he was stellar.
 


manderson1984 said:
There is a better bit to play than this.
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Honestly, I don't recall the kid. Clearly he was an amazing recruit who had Steph Curry range and accuracy, but I somehow missed him.
I'm glad y'all got to see him before he went pro.
 

Holy Man said:
Theoretically, I am with you. Our success in managing that in recent years has been bad, though. We have been caught short-handed at least twice in the last three years, and arguably three years in a row from injuries, suspensions, and end of the bench guys who really can't fill holes even in a desperate situation. Especially now, we need bodies that can compete right away. Big bodies. Count me as one who will be severely disappointed if we end up with sit out transfers in places of real need again this year. The sit out transfer can be helpful if you know you have enough bodies in front of them that meet the needs. We don't have that in the front court.
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Depending on how class shapes out, I would be ok with one sit out transfer

Last year we had:
Stull- Basically worthless. Hit 2 big 3's vs sconi though, that alone almost made him worth it
Washington-Still has potential, but didn't really contribute
Omersa- Potential, but not a contributor
Matz- Occasional contributor

Carr/Willis-Transfer-Sit out

This year we lose:
Matz, Stull, Murphy, and Mcbrayer

Carr- I think can equal Mcbrayer's production
Willis- At very least can match Stull's production, but hopefully exceed
Omersa- With development can provide minutes Matz did

And that's not even touching our 4 scholarships

Of course filling Murphy role is a huge hole not yet accounted for, the hope being development of Oturu, Gabe, and Amir back to SF with Carr at PG help balance that out.

Can washington provide minutes, he has skill set
Can Omersa develop into serviceable big man
filling 3 spots-I am hopeful at least one JUCO or Grad Transfer big man
 



MennoSota said:
Honestly, I don't recall the kid. Clearly he was an amazing recruit who had Steph Curry range and accuracy, but I somehow missed him.
I'm glad y'all got to see him before he went pro.
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Talk about going to the extreme. No one said he was a great player. Just that saying Gabe is the only shooter Pitino has brought in is untrue. Harris was considered a very good shooter in HS. He looked pretty good at times. Sounds like he got home sick so he transferred.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Talk about going to the extreme. No one said he was a great player. Just that saying Gabe is the only shooter Pitino has brought in is untrue. Harris was considered a very good shooter in HS. He looked pretty good at times. Sounds like he got home sick so he transferred.
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Nice response. You're much kinder than I would have been.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Talk about going to the extreme. No one said he was a great player. Just that saying Gabe is the only shooter Pitino has brought in is untrue. Harris was considered a very good shooter in HS. He looked pretty good at times. Sounds like he got home sick so he transferred.
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If Harris was a great shooter how did he end up leaving? He obviously wasn't that great. Was he Dupree McBrayer good? [emoji41]
My point being the kid obviously wasn't that good of a shooter.
 

MennoSota said:
If Harris was a great shooter how did he end up leaving? He obviously wasn't that great. Was he Dupree McBrayer good? [emoji41]
My point being the kid obviously wasn't that good of a shooter.
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Was that your point? I don't remember you saying that right away...
 



MennoSota said:
If Harris was a great shooter how did he end up leaving? He obviously wasn't that great. Was he Dupree McBrayer good? [emoji41]
My point being the kid obviously wasn't that good of a shooter.
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What does one have to do with the other?

With all due respect, I think you are getting push back because you made a comment about Pitino not having recruited any good shooters in six years but yet you are struggling to remember the two freshman from last year.
 

golfing18now said:
What does one have to do with the other?

With all due respect, I think you are getting push back because you made a comment about Pitino not having recruited any good shooters in six years but yet you are struggling to remember the two freshman from last year.
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It's more that he's not good at trolling. Harris came in with a rep of being a good shooter. Him and Dupree had a similar % the year Harris was here (around 34%) and we don't consider Dupree a good shooter.
 

MennoSota said:
If Harris was a great shooter how did he end up leaving? He obviously wasn't that great. Was he Dupree McBrayer good? [emoji41]
My point being the kid obviously wasn't that good of a shooter.
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Are you implying that being a good shooter prevents you from being able to transfer?

He was viewed as one of the best shooters in his class by scouts (at least one called him the best three point shooter in the country), but you're the only one qualified to judge such things, so I guess they should have asked you.

Maybe he had issues with his guide hand that didn't give him problems in high school, but did once he got to college? :rolleyes:
 

MennoSota said:
If Harris was a great shooter how did he end up leaving? He obviously wasn't that great. Was he Dupree McBrayer good? [emoji41]
My point being the kid obviously wasn't that good of a shooter.
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Harris was a good shooter, he just wasn't a good player. It's hard to be effective when you're only a 6-2 knockdown shooter and don't have point guard skills or quickness, are a poor finisher, don't have much of a mid range game, can't create your own shot and get lost on defense. He was a good shooter but didn't bring anything else to the table.
 


manderson1984 said:
It's more that he's not good at trolling. Harris came in with a rep of being a good shooter. Him and Dupree had a similar % the year Harris was here (around 34%) and we don't consider Dupree a good shooter.
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Harris was a better shooter than Dupree that year. The problem is that Jamir is 6-2 and couldn't create his own shot whereas Dupree is 6-5 and can. Because of that, Jamir had to take a lot of contested 3's and deep 3's to get his shot off. If Dupree had the shooting skills of Jamir, he would have an all big ten player.
 

MennoSota said:
Honestly, I don't recall the kid. Clearly he was an amazing recruit who had Steph Curry range and accuracy, but I somehow missed him.
I'm glad y'all got to see him before he went pro.
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He didn't really work out, but it kind of says more about you that you can't recall him being on the team.

He played more minutes last year than Stockman, Stull, or Hurt played this year.
 

manderson1984 said:
Was that your point? I don't remember you saying that right away...
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My point was Pitino has not recruited good shooters.
Harris completely slips my mind. Perhaps he was good, but I don't recall seeing him play let alone make a shot.
I recall Hurt (not a great shot), McBrayer (not a great shot) Washington (not a great shot) Coffey (not a great shot) Omersa, Oturu, Murphy, etc., (not great shooters). Stull was supposedly a good shooter. We rarely saw him get space to shoot.
This is on Pitino. That's my point.
 

MennoSota said:
If Harris was a great shooter how did he end up leaving? He obviously wasn't that great. Was he Dupree McBrayer good? [emoji41]
My point being the kid obviously wasn't that good of a shooter.
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The Gophers can't hold him hostage. If he is home sick and wants to transfer closer to home, Pitino can't really stop him. He shot 35% from 3 as a freshman. For comparison, McBrayer made 25% as a freshman. Not every good shooter comes in and has a big impact right away. Do you consider Ryan Cline for Purdue a good shooter? Harris had just about as many made 3 pointers per game last year as Cline did as a freshman.
 

GophersInIowa said:
The Gophers can't hold him hostage. If he is home sick and wants to transfer closer to home, Pitino can't really stop him. He shot 35% from 3 as a freshman. For comparison, McBrayer made 25% as a freshman. Not every good shooter comes in and has a big impact right away. Do you consider Ryan Cline for Purdue a good shooter? Harris had just about as many made 3 pointers per game last year as Cline did as a freshman.
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Harris isn't here. My point still stands.
Richard has not done a good job of recruiting shooters. I think it actually compliments Richard that he was able to be this successful, this year, with such deficiencies on the floor. I just hope he can start to recruit a few true shooters soon.
 

Thankfully Richard missed out on Illikainen. A lot of posters were bummed when we didn't land him.
 

rickyupchurch said:
Thankfully Richard missed out on Illikainen. A lot of posters were bummed when we didn't land him.
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Yes, I've thought that a number of times myself. That's part of why I never get invested in high school or prep recruits. You never know whether they are going to come here or be that good even if they do, so obsessing over them seems like a lot of wasted energy to me.
 
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