Minnesota Basketball: The case for Richard Pitino

BleedGopher

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per Dudley:

The NCAA Tournament is upon us, and the storylines that go with it are everywhere. The Gophers are in the field, and that is a great thing for the program in the short-term. However, a long-term question is still the elephant in the room. What is the future of Richard Pitino at the University of Minnesota?

First, let’s straighten one thing out. There are indeed questions about Pitino’s job. If you’re one of the people who was calling for his head prior to the two wins over Purdue, it’s likely you would still like to see him gone. If two games were enough to change your mind, you might want to reconsider your process for developing opinions on sports.

There are so many layers to this. You’ll hear the haters say “He’s got a .364 winning percentage in Big Ten play.” Or, “He’s missed out on all of the great local talent.” Let’s take an in-depth look at the journey of this program over the past three seasons.

The .364 winning percentage means absolutely nothing to me. Let me tell you why. Pitino took over a Big Ten program at 30 years of age. That’s right 30. Everyone should have expected some troubles in conference play at the beginning of his tenure. What I’m concerned with is year four. Do you remember what this team looked like just two years ago? They finished fourth in the Big Ten and earned a five-seed in the NCAA Tournament. It was undoubtedly one of the best seasons in program history, especially if you’re not counting the seasons that were striped away due to academic fraud. Do you remember what this team looked like going into last season? Projected to finish second in the conference. Ranked in the top-15 nationally. The Gophers had arrived. They were finally all the way back from the scandal that had decimated the program 20 years earlier. Then came January 3, 2018. The Gophers were 12-3 to start the highly anticipated season, and had a game against a lowly Illinois team that night at the Barn. The Gophers won that night, but little did we all know it was the beginning of the end. Amir Coffey injured his shoulder on that evening and was never the same, missing significant time. Two day later, sexual assault allegations were brought against Reggie Lynch and he never played for the program again. Eric Curry was already out for the season with a torn ACL. Dupree McBrayer was playing on one leg. Nate Mason had received awful medical advice, and was playing through a very severe hip injury. In short, what could have went wrong went wrong in the 2017-18 season. You can’t hold last season against Pitino.

Fast forward to this season. The national Pundits were completely off the Gophers. No one predicted them to be a 10-seed in the NCAA Tournament. Despite ups and downs this season, this team is playing its best basketball in March. Pitino has gotten a ton out of this group despite some awful luck. Just imagine if Mason would have gotten better medical advice. He would have sat out last year, and been part of this group. What if Jarvis Johnson was the senior point guard of this team? The DeLaSalle product was a huge get for Pitino, but is unable to play due to a heart condition. Consider the NCAA denying Marcus Carr’s waiver. This team would be significantly better if just one of those three breaks would have went its way. It’s not Richard Pitino’s fault that this team doesn’t have a point guard. It really has just been bad luck.

https://www.isportsweb.com/2019/03/19/minnesota-basketball-the-case-for-richard-pitino/

Go Gophers!!
 

I agree with all of this. But the fact that he missed on/mismanaged Washington and has recruited some duds and has an empty recruiting boat right now is very concerning. I think both he and tubby have had some bad luck but at some point you have to change the momentum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I agree with all of this. But the fact that he missed on/mismanaged Washington and has recruited some duds and has an empty recruiting boat right now is very concerning. I think both he and tubby have had some bad luck but at some point you have to change the momentum

I really don't see it that way. Washington isn't a miss..yet. Mismanaged??...would you like him to play the second best point guard..... that can't guard very well and can't shoot the 3?
 

per Dudley:

The NCAA Tournament is upon us, and the storylines that go with it are everywhere. The Gophers are in the field, and that is a great thing for the program in the short-term. However, a long-term question is still the elephant in the room. What is the future of Richard Pitino at the University of Minnesota?

First, let’s straighten one thing out. There are indeed questions about Pitino’s job. If you’re one of the people who was calling for his head prior to the two wins over Purdue, it’s likely you would still like to see him gone. If two games were enough to change your mind, you might want to reconsider your process for developing opinions on sports.

There are so many layers to this. You’ll hear the haters say “He’s got a .364 winning percentage in Big Ten play.” Or, “He’s missed out on all of the great local talent.” Let’s take an in-depth look at the journey of this program over the past three seasons.

The .364 winning percentage means absolutely nothing to me. Let me tell you why. Pitino took over a Big Ten program at 30 years of age. That’s right 30. Everyone should have expected some troubles in conference play at the beginning of his tenure. What I’m concerned with is year four. Do you remember what this team looked like just two years ago? They finished fourth in the Big Ten and earned a five-seed in the NCAA Tournament. It was undoubtedly one of the best seasons in program history, especially if you’re not counting the seasons that were striped away due to academic fraud. Do you remember what this team looked like going into last season? Projected to finish second in the conference. Ranked in the top-15 nationally. The Gophers had arrived. They were finally all the way back from the scandal that had decimated the program 20 years earlier. Then came January 3, 2018. The Gophers were 12-3 to start the highly anticipated season, and had a game against a lowly Illinois team that night at the Barn. The Gophers won that night, but little did we all know it was the beginning of the end. Amir Coffey injured his shoulder on that evening and was never the same, missing significant time. Two day later, sexual assault allegations were brought against Reggie Lynch and he never played for the program again. Eric Curry was already out for the season with a torn ACL. Dupree McBrayer was playing on one leg. Nate Mason had received awful medical advice, and was playing through a very severe hip injury. In short, what could have went wrong went wrong in the 2017-18 season. You can’t hold last season against Pitino.

Fast forward to this season. The national Pundits were completely off the Gophers. No one predicted them to be a 10-seed in the NCAA Tournament. Despite ups and downs this season, this team is playing its best basketball in March. Pitino has gotten a ton out of this group despite some awful luck. Just imagine if Mason would have gotten better medical advice. He would have sat out last year, and been part of this group. What if Jarvis Johnson was the senior point guard of this team? The DeLaSalle product was a huge get for Pitino, but is unable to play due to a heart condition. Consider the NCAA denying Marcus Carr’s waiver. This team would be significantly better if just one of those three breaks would have went its way. It’s not Richard Pitino’s fault that this team doesn’t have a point guard. It really has just been bad luck.

https://www.isportsweb.com/2019/03/19/minnesota-basketball-the-case-for-richard-pitino/

Go Gophers!!

Seems like an entirely sane assessment. I've never understood how last year's injuries and Lynch fiasco are blamed on Pitino.

JTG
 

I really don't see it that way. Washington isn't a miss..yet. Mismanaged??...would you like him to play the second best point guard..... that can't guard very well and can't shoot the 3?

Yes, I’d like him to have played Washington sixth man minutes. I think Washington’s shooting is partially the result of lack of confidence from always getting his minutes yanked around. But he created offense better than anybody else on the team for others. And I think his bad defense was overplayed. It was bad true but not cataclysmic. I think it was a miss only because pitino couldn’t handle or figure out how to use him. I think he’ll be a good player at his next stop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



Right... That's it.

chicken-egg discussion. He is a confidence/streak shooter and he proved that last year when he finished the last 10 games pretty well. His playing time got jacked with for several reasons: Poor defense, over dribbling and too many shots (and missed shots). As a result his confidence lowered and his shooting got worse.

I wish that Pitino would have given him a couple of starts right after he had the big assist game(s) just to see what he would have done with the reward. Hard to say what has happened behind the scenes, so the whole thing is tough to judge.
 

I agree with Dudley. Replacing Pitino would be a mistake.
 

I'm not even going to get into the long paragraph, because I don't care to expend the energy and we've already had those conversations on here multiple times. I'll just say that I don't agree with plenty of it and leave it at that. I know some feel the same and others don't.

The second part, about "national pundits" being completely off on the Gophers is flat out wrong. The preseason predictions for the Gophers from various sources:
B1G media poll - 9th
ESPN - 7th
Andy Katz - 7th (also predicted we'd make the NCAA tournament)
Sports Illustrated - 8th
Sporting News - 8th
GopherHole Message board poll most common answer was 9 or 10 conference wins.

None of those are drastically off compared to what actually happened.
 



None of those are drastically off compared to what actually happened.

And yet most people weren't calling for his head at the beginning of the season. So, why the change in attitude if, as you're suggesting, expectations were at least met this year?

I'm as disappointed in the winning percentage as anyone and certainly feel Pitino could have done better in some areas as he as. My biggest gripe has been his recruiting misses and lack of a pg and shooters on this team. But, he's done enough to keep his job as far as I'm concerned. If it weren't for last year's bad luck with all the injuries (and Reggie Lynch being a moron), we'd be going on 3 straight years being invited to the NCAA tourney - which hasn't happened here since...???
 

There is obviously more to it than this. Someone who coaches or plays can tell you a whole lot more about Pitino’s coaching tactics than I can.

/thread

As impactful as a gopherholer writing it.

No one can convince me to look at Pitino's tenure and be any more than "meh". I also am not calling for his firing. He's the perfect representative for Minnesota sports. A bunch of "ya buts" and a couple "but if's" and mediocre at best results with a shining example or two of what could be.

Richard Pitino is the PERFECT coach for Minnesota Basketball and I ****ing hate it.
 

some of this article is slant (many predictions were in line with where we finished though in the setting of not predicting a tournament for us and overall a down B10). Some is pretty accurate to me (hard to blame Reggie being a moron/sleezeball on Pitino). Some is just ignored (he has had recruiting misses, but every coach does). I feel like he's earned another year based on what's happened this year. If he misses the tournament next year (tons will depend on his transfers, if he can land anyone this spring, and development of his young guys), it will be very difficult to keep him around unless he's inked some stellar guys next year and the hype around the team is back.
 

So this guy's point is, if we ignore four of his six seasons, he looks ok. And if his argument is we overachieved this year, isnt it a problem that a 10 seed and a losing big ten record are considered overachieving in year 6? He should keep his job into next year, but by the end of next year, he better have at least one tournament win to his name.
 



Maybe it is wishful thinking and our basketball program just will never be consistently great, but my issue with Pitino is the lack of a consistent winner and/or any sort of potential. What has he shown to say we are suddenly going to be much better or will suddenly be a top even 6 B10 team? Recruiting has never spiked, our offense is still abysmal, we have had little to no player development. Yes injuries hurt, but they can't be a crutch all the time. Look at say Xavier, 2017 they lost their best player a few weeks before the tourney, 11 seed, made a run to the Elite 8. Injuries happen to a lot of teams, you need some depth, which we have never had. Every year we have at least 1-2 players that just can't play or find a role, that is a big problem. And I fully understand the U will never get the Tyus/Tre/Jalen Suggs' of the world, but outside of those guys going to blue bloods we need to keep the other talent here. How nice would it be Theo John to play 15-20 min a game? or Sacar Anim to play 20 min or Geno Crandall to play PG.

Would we take the next step with say Mussellman, Hoiberg or Craig Smith? I have no idea, but I bet Texas Tech didn't plan on being a top 10 team two years in a row after hiring Chris Beard, and there they are!
 

And yet most people weren't calling for his head at the beginning of the season. So, why the change in attitude if, as you're suggesting, expectations were at least met this year?

I'm as disappointed in the winning percentage as anyone and certainly feel Pitino could have done better in some areas as he as. My biggest gripe has been his recruiting misses and lack of a pg and shooters on this team. But, he's done enough to keep his job as far as I'm concerned. If it weren't for last year's bad luck with all the injuries (and Reggie Lynch being a moron), we'd be going on 3 straight years being invited to the NCAA tourney - which hasn't happened here since...???

I'm not sure there has been much of a change in attitude. Meeting expectations doesn't do much if those expectations aren't very high to begin with. I think some people have been frustrated with the overall body of work, and fulfilling the preseason prediction of finishing in the middle of the conference doesn't really move the needle.

I thought at the beginning of the year that he needed to make the NCAA tourney to keep his job, so I think he's probably done enough. That being said, barring a good run in the NCAAs I'll feel the same way going into next year.

And I never think about it in terms of the ifs and buts. Every program deals with bad luck/injuries/suspensions/transfers/etc
 

I still apply the "eye test" to teams. when you watch them, do they look like they have a plan, and can follow that plan?

For whatever reason, the Gophers - 6 years into the Pitino era - still go through these offensive black holes. almost every game, there is a 4- or 5-minute stretch where they look clueless.

when that happens, 1st, you need a leader on the floor who can recognize what's happening, and try to get the team out of it. And, the coach needs to be ready to call a time out, make a substitution, something - anything - to change the momentum.

That is my biggest issue with Pitino, and I just don't know if time is going to fix it.
 

I continue to be annoyed at calling people who question whether the coach is the right person for the job going forward as "haters." I've read a lot of pages in this forum, and that term would not apply to anyone here.
 

Two years ago Pitino built a team that defied expectations that resulted in him being BTN coach of year with several all big ten players. Last year was an abberation(that had huge expectatations if the bottom hadn’t fallen out) this year they made the tourney in a loaded big ten - next year if the right pieces are added we will be young but very talented. The future is bright and with the nucleus returning for years to come.
 

Two years ago Pitino built a team that defied expectations that resulted in him being BTN coach of year with several all big ten players. Last year was an abberation(that had huge expectatations if the bottom hadn’t fallen out) this year they made the tourney in a loaded big ten - next year if the right pieces are added we will be young but very talented. The future is bright and with the nucleus returning for years to come.

3 starters returning is usually a good thing
 

I mean I think we can kind of all be reasonable and meet in the middle of the road...He should have had what was 3 tourney teams and I know you have to build the roster to handle the ups and downs, so its not like he completely sucked or was awesome. If we make the tourney last year I guarantee the attitude is different.

The way I view it is as this...Pitino has put some solid teams that are actually fairly good even considering the multiple roster whiffs we have had. My hope is that he can continue to develop players as I think that player development has been fairly solid and we can elevate our recruiting just a touch. I'm not even saying we need to get guys like Tre, Reid, Rashad, Hurt, Suggs....I am saying lets maybe prioritize some of these guys that are 150-200 ranked recruits. Solid players that you have watched that probably don't have the craziest offer list but they fit what you do. This sounds kind of odd, I get that, but why are we getting people who are marginal B1G players or guys that are really solid? Doesn't seem to really be any in-between. Maybe we need some guys that are 4 year bench players but can actually contribute for a couple years as an upperclassmen. I feel like a lot of teams have that but we don't.

I would just like to see him sustain tourney appearances. We were there this year, lets get back another, and things will start to get better. I think that consistency is going to be how we pull out of this as a program. I just want us to make it a few in a row before we fire a coach for not winning a tourney game...there is very rarely poor teams in the tourney. Any tourney win is like a top 25 win. He has shown that he is capable, lets not take a gamble on poor odds in hoping we find a great coach.
 

Yes, I’d like him to have played Washington sixth man minutes. I think Washington’s shooting is partially the result of lack of confidence from always getting his minutes yanked around. But he created offense better than anybody else on the team for others. And I think his bad defense was overplayed. It was bad true but not cataclysmic. I think it was a miss only because pitino couldn’t handle or figure out how to use him. I think he’ll be a good player at his next stop.


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Is it possible that some or even much of the blame might be on IW himself? Do we ever lay the blame on the player? Or is it all on the coaching staff?

If it is all on the coaching and Pitino's mismanagement then perhaps we should also give Pitino credit for the development of players like Mason (far exceeded his ranking), the development of Murphy (likely one of the most underappreciated Gopher players ever), the development of Gabe (much better player than we anticipated), and now Coffey/Oturu (big strides the last half of this year).

It would be nice if we called it both ways.
 

Maybe it is wishful thinking and our basketball program just will never be consistently great, but my issue with Pitino is the lack of a consistent winner and/or any sort of potential. What has he shown to say we are suddenly going to be much better or will suddenly be a top even 6 B10 team? Recruiting has never spiked, our offense is still abysmal, we have had little to no player development. Yes injuries hurt, but they can't be a crutch all the time. Look at say Xavier, 2017 they lost their best player a few weeks before the tourney, 11 seed, made a run to the Elite 8. Injuries happen to a lot of teams, you need some depth, which we have never had. Every year we have at least 1-2 players that just can't play or find a role, that is a big problem. And I fully understand the U will never get the Tyus/Tre/Jalen Suggs' of the world, but outside of those guys going to blue bloods we need to keep the other talent here. How nice would it be Theo John to play 15-20 min a game? or Sacar Anim to play 20 min or Geno Crandall to play PG.

Would we take the next step with say Mussellman, Hoiberg or Craig Smith? I have no idea, but I bet Texas Tech didn't plan on being a top 10 team two years in a row after hiring Chris Beard, and there they are!

Three thoughts on Pitino and your comments above....

1. Pitino made big mistakes the first couple years. In retrospect, I think he should have probably tried to build from year one instead of trying to fit to Tubby's players and patching with mis-fit options. Additionally, he tried too hard to recruit like Florida/Louisville and ultimately had to go with fall back options like Konate/Diedhiou which really hurt him. As he has often said, his year three was really about starting over. Looking from that point forward, I think his trajectory has been fairly good. Year three was a bottoming out. Year four was a really nice finish. Year five would have been a tournament team if not for losing four of this top six players. I realize this is a "what if/yeah but" comment, but you aren't be honest with yourself if you don't recognize the extreme hand he was dealt. Year six was probably a point guard away from being very good too, but ended up being "ok".

2. Pitino hasn't been an awful player developer. Granted he hasn't placed anybody in the NBA, but we have seen a number of players get better under his watch. (see my previous post).

3. Pitino has recruited Minnesota just fine. He has six players on the roster right now from Minnesota when you include Jarvis. How many players would make you happy? Ten players from Minnesota? All these guys are big "misses" until we see them for two years at other schools and realize they aren't transformational players and all of a sudden we don't want them back -- see the other threads on players like Sims/Nikko/Illikainen/John/Anim. The key is to get players that buy in and make themselves solid big ten players like Mason/Murphy, regardless of where their address resides.
 

per Dudley:

The NCAA Tournament is upon us, and the storylines that go with it are everywhere. The Gophers are in the field, and that is a great thing for the program in the short-term. However, a long-term question is still the elephant in the room. What is the future of Richard Pitino at the University of Minnesota?

First, let’s straighten one thing out. There are indeed questions about Pitino’s job. If you’re one of the people who was calling for his head prior to the two wins over Purdue, it’s likely you would still like to see him gone. If two games were enough to change your mind, you might want to reconsider your process for developing opinions on sports.

There are so many layers to this. You’ll hear the haters say “He’s got a .364 winning percentage in Big Ten play.” Or, “He’s missed out on all of the great local talent.” Let’s take an in-depth look at the journey of this program over the past three seasons.

The .364 winning percentage means absolutely nothing to me. Let me tell you why. Pitino took over a Big Ten program at 30 years of age. That’s right 30. Everyone should have expected some troubles in conference play at the beginning of his tenure. What I’m concerned with is year four. Do you remember what this team looked like just two years ago? They finished fourth in the Big Ten and earned a five-seed in the NCAA Tournament. It was undoubtedly one of the best seasons in program history, especially if you’re not counting the seasons that were striped away due to academic fraud. Do you remember what this team looked like going into last season? Projected to finish second in the conference. Ranked in the top-15 nationally. The Gophers had arrived. They were finally all the way back from the scandal that had decimated the program 20 years earlier. Then came January 3, 2018. The Gophers were 12-3 to start the highly anticipated season, and had a game against a lowly Illinois team that night at the Barn. The Gophers won that night, but little did we all know it was the beginning of the end. Amir Coffey injured his shoulder on that evening and was never the same, missing significant time. Two day later, sexual assault allegations were brought against Reggie Lynch and he never played for the program again. Eric Curry was already out for the season with a torn ACL. Dupree McBrayer was playing on one leg. Nate Mason had received awful medical advice, and was playing through a very severe hip injury. In short, what could have went wrong went wrong in the 2017-18 season. You can’t hold last season against Pitino.

Fast forward to this season. The national Pundits were completely off the Gophers. No one predicted them to be a 10-seed in the NCAA Tournament. Despite ups and downs this season, this team is playing its best basketball in March. Pitino has gotten a ton out of this group despite some awful luck. Just imagine if Mason would have gotten better medical advice. He would have sat out last year, and been part of this group. What if Jarvis Johnson was the senior point guard of this team? The DeLaSalle product was a huge get for Pitino, but is unable to play due to a heart condition. Consider the NCAA denying Marcus Carr’s waiver. This team would be significantly better if just one of those three breaks would have went its way. It’s not Richard Pitino’s fault that this team doesn’t have a point guard. It really has just been bad luck.

https://www.isportsweb.com/2019/03/19/minnesota-basketball-the-case-for-richard-pitino/

Go Gophers!!

Very good assessment of the situation.


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I hope they keep him around regardless of what happens in the tourny this year. I do however think they need to hire an assistant that specializes in inbounding the ball. We have got to be the worst team ever at inbounding.
 

I support Pitino. Wish Washington got more minutes. He should certainly play in front of Stull. I am very interested to see what he brings in this spring and how the team looks. He will certainly have a challenge to be competitive next year.
 

So this guy's point is, if we ignore four of his six seasons, he looks ok. And if his argument is we overachieved this year, isnt it a problem that a 10 seed and a losing big ten record are considered overachieving in year 6? He should keep his job into next year, but by the end of next year, he better have at least one tournament win to his name.

Spot on. Nicely done.
 

I want to try keeping some stability for a change. Between Gopher basketball and football we hire a new flashy coach, get disappointed in five years, fire the coach, rinse, repeat. Everyone expects hiring the right coach will be like flipping a switch to turn the U into a national powerhouse but sadly it doesn't work that way. In college sports, it takes four years just to get a program full of your own recruits! Swap coaches all you want but a program like Minnesota isn't going to have everything "click" immediately just because of a coaching change.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

I think that the combination of horrible roster management, lack of offensive identity / plan, and concerning recruiting would give Coyle ample reason to let Pitino go. That being said, if there isn’t a coach that Coyle has lined up, or Pitino has an inside track on next year’s in-state recruits, then I would be totally okay with the decision to bring him back.
 

I watch a lot of college basketball, more than I should and many if not most teams have "bad breaks" along the way. Some cope with them and some don't. I can't recall a program or it's fans that gives complete passes to the coach on a season, or Pitino's case a career, if some guys get injured, suspended or don't pan out. Strange.

That being said, I think Pitino might have done enough to save his job. Next year I think will have to be a year though that he outperforms the expectations and that is regardless of whether someone gets hurt. Because if we are waiting for a year were everything goes absolutely right to evaluate Pitino then that is just silly.
 

And yet most people weren't calling for his head at the beginning of the season. So, why the change in attitude if, as you're suggesting, expectations were at least met this year?

I'm as disappointed in the winning percentage as anyone and certainly feel Pitino could have done better in some areas as he as. My biggest gripe has been his recruiting misses and lack of a pg and shooters on this team. But, he's done enough to keep his job as far as I'm concerned. If it weren't for last year's bad luck with all the injuries (and Reggie Lynch being a moron), we'd be going on 3 straight years being invited to the NCAA tourney - which hasn't happened here since...???

Why is the expectation to be 7th 8th in year 6?

Does anyone know?

So if someone predicts 10th next year heading into the season and we finish 8th or 9th, I guess we have yet another successful season.
 




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