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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2727Gopher View Post
    Probably the most serious charges the people involved in this will face is tax evasion - this was a fake charity, and the people who paid into it and then deducted it on their taxes are (allegedly) guilty of tax fraud.

    Yep, but I was thinking more along the lines of money laundering. It’s hard to believe the numbers- bribes of 500k -1.2M when many people can be turned for far less or some other quid pro quo to gain admission to a school (donation, favors, business collaboration, etc) but who knows?


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Some guy View Post
    Well then you aren’t very smart considering the fbi has hundreds of active investigations.

    You’re so right. Good point.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean S View Post
    Beat cops do it multiple times a day.
    FBI agents do it the same way.
    The phone rings. They answer. They key in some information into a database. Somebody else gets flagged to make a few calls. Yep. They can do more than one at a time.
    Do you guys work? No, one cannot generate more man hours out of thin air. Yes, you can have irons in the fire but one cannot work on them simultaneously or give quality work without man hours. This isn’t a difficult concept.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Some guy View Post
    Do you think it is possible to investigate two things at the same time
    By the government? Is that a joke? How in the world would anyone have any faith in the FBI from what we've seen in the last several years? Holy wowzers.
    - Respect is the ultimate currency

  5. #35

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    .

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Chitown Gopher View Post
    So when does the NCAA announce penalties against the U for this transgression?
    Nobody had to bribe anyone to get admitted to Minnesota.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogee Oglethorpe View Post
    By the government? Is that a joke? How in the world would anyone have any faith in the FBI from what we've seen in the last several years? Holy wowzers.
    LOL - Thanks for the morning laugh. That whole agency has really looked bad the last few years. It has gone from being well respected to a complete joke!

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean S View Post
    Beat cops do it multiple times a day.
    FBI agents do it the same way.
    The phone rings. They answer. They key in some information into a database. Somebody else gets flagged to make a few calls. Yep. They can do more than one at a time.
    And you would expect them to circular file frivolous "crimes" in order to not dilute resources the same way I would expect the FBI to do the same.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post
    No, I donÂ’t.

    Hey, itÂ’s great they clapped these guys and if any of them go on to serve time it could be a deterrent for others but letÂ’s be real - there are probably more important issues that could be looked into. I mentioned one, and I recall things in the news like hotline tips regarding firearms and mental illness that werenÂ’t followed up on (due to lack of manpower/hours IÂ’d imagine) prior to the Florida high school mass shooting...could go on.

    Anyone that has ever held a busy job will tell you that no, it isnÂ’t possible to be in two places at once.
    The "they should spend their time on more important stuff!" argument is faulty logic that could be applied to literally everyone.

    If your boss finds you cleaning up your desk does he yell at you to get back to work on more important things?

    Not to mention the FBI has people that specifically work on human trafficking, kidnapping, serial kilers, and yes, FRAUD.

    It is completely unsurprising that when they get wind of a nationwide multi-million dollar fraud case they will prosecute it to the full.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tato2001 View Post
    The "they should spend their time on more important stuff!" argument is faulty logic that could be applied to literally everyone.

    If your boss finds you cleaning up your desk does he yell at you to get back to work on more important things?

    Not to mention the FBI has people that specifically work on human trafficking, kidnapping, serial kilers, and yes, FRAUD.

    It is completely unsurprising that when they get wind of a nationwide multi-million dollar fraud case they will prosecute it to the full.
    Absolutely. What the heck do you guys do for a living?

    Ok, I think I see your point - you’re saying an investigator will put one investigation on the back burner/on delay in favor of another. Fine. Financial crimes require a lot of expertise, sleuthing and time. As I’ve said before there absolutely should have been prosecution here but one doesn’t need to look far to see other things where a much lighter approach was taken. Things that make you go hmm.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparlimb View Post
    Right. I get Harvard and Yale. You get a degree there (assuming these kids could hack it) and it means something. But USC? You couldn't instead go to UC Riverside or UC San Diego? Is it that much nicer? And maybe giving the kid the 500 grand and teaching them how to invest would have been a lot smarter of an idea. You can nearly live off the interest of 500 grand...
    Interesting question. USC admits about 40% more freshman than U of M, but it has about 5X the number of applicants, so its selection rate is a lot lower. On paper it looks pretty tough to get accepted because of the sheer number of applicants. USC average admission SAT is slightly higher than U of M (1400 v 1360) as is the ACT (32 v 28) but the average GPA is lower (3.73 v 3.82).

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post
    Ok, I think I see your point - you’re saying an investigator will put one investigation on the back burner/on delay in favor of another. Fine. Financial crimes require a lot of expertise, sleuthing and time. As I’ve said before there absolutely should have been prosecution here but one doesn’t need to look far to see other things where a much lighter approach was taken. Things that make you go hmm.
    Given the limited resources law enforcement agencies have to investigate and prosecute wrongdoing, one of the strategies they use to encourage voluntary compliance with the criminal laws is the prosecution of high profile people in way that will guarantee intensive and widespread coverage by the news media. "Perp walks" were invented to help increase media interest and exposure of crimes and criminal suspects. That is why Felicity Huffman was arrested early in the morning at her house with a gun pointed at her rather than at the courthouse. The FBI wasn't going to pass up that opportunity by allowing her to voluntarily turn herself in. This case was guaranteed to become Topic A in every news outlet in America. It was a slam dunk for the FBI. There was no way they weren't going to pursue it in the way they did no matter what else they have to investigate.
    Last edited by Cruze; 03-14-2019 at 12:48 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruze View Post
    Given the limited resources law enforcement agencies have to investigate and prosecute wrongdoing, one of the strategies they use to encourage voluntary compliance with the criminal laws is the prosecution of high profile people in way that will guarantee intensive and widespread coverage by the news media. "Perp walks" were invented to help increase media interest and exposure of crimes and criminal suspects. That is why Felicity Huffman was arrested early in the morning at her house with a gun pointed at her rather than at the courthouse. The FBI wasn't going to pass up that opportunity by allowing her to voluntarily turn herself in. This case was guaranteed to become Topic A in every news outlet in America. It was a slam dunk for the FBI. There was no way they weren't going to pursue it in the way they did no matter what else they have to investigate.
    To my surprise I totally agree with you. Some of this is PR and definitely should give pause to the less psychotic parents out there from pursuing similar strategies. The FBI’s non-partisan reputation, non-political reputation has taken a large public hit in recent years. The soak the rich angle is brilliant, actually. And, it’s easier politically than prosecuting donors and possible employers in the financial industry.

  14. #44
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    Harvard admits alumni donations/bribes give legacy applicants a boosted chance of admission. Alert the FBI?

    https://www.npr.org/2018/11/04/66362...s-like-harvard

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post
    Harvard admits alumni donations/bribes give legacy applicants a boosted chance of admission. Alert the FBI?

    https://www.npr.org/2018/11/04/66362...s-like-harvard
    No, don’t notify the FBI. While that may be unseemly, or unfair, it certainly doesn’t rise to the level of fraud. Not even close. Harvard is well within their rights to make giving a factor in admissions.

    When I google fraud the two definitions that pop up are:


    “wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
    "he was convicted of fraud””

    ...and

    “a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.”

    The second definition is so apropos that it looks like it could have been written with EXACTLY this case in mind. Basing admission decisions on donations doesn’t fit either definition. Not even remotely.

    In fact, You could make an argument that it’s no different than admitting athletes or smart people: they are all admitted based on their perceived ability to benefit the university, in your example not through good sports teams or academic achievement, but through financial support.

    In the criminal case at hand, there is no claimed financial support, and the academic and athletic accomplishments are straight up fake. Their admission was based on misrepresented potential benefit to the university. That’s precisely what makes it fraudulent.

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