Who are the state tourney favorites? who is hot?

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Some guy said:
When they left Bloomington Kennedy and Jefferson were still in he conference.

They ran away and are now complaining that their section is too tough.
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They didn't run away because of basketball....the were usually top half of the Lake Conference most years before they split up, and that conference was loaded. Jake White played at Wichita State on a Final 4 team and Ross Travis played at Penn State I believe. I think what happened was everyone in the Lake Conference wanted to kick Eden Prairie out, mainly because of football, and Chaska decided to leave because of football also. Especially after they split their school in half. Also the conference Chaska is in has nothing to do with the section they are in. The MSHSL sets up the sections.
 

ethomasp31 said:
They didn't run away because of basketball....the were usually top half of the Lake Conference most years before they split up, and that conference was loaded. Jake White played at Wichita State on a Final 4 team and Ross Travis played at Penn State I believe. I think what happened was everyone in the Lake Conference wanted to kick Eden Prairie out, mainly because of football, and Chaska decided to leave because of football also. Especially after they split their school in half. Also the conference Chaska is in has nothing to do with the section they are in. The MSHSL sets up the sections.
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By the way, I agree that Chaska has flip flopped on their conference choice a lot. To me they would seem to fit better with the South Suburban, but I think they switched mainly because they had just split the school in half and they weren't sure they would be able to compete in Football with the Rosemount's and Lakeville North's. The funny thing is they would probably fit in just fine with the South Suburban schools in football now.
 

ethomasp31 said:
By the way, I agree that Chaska has flip flopped on their conference choice a lot. To me they would seem to fit better with the South Suburban, but I think they switched mainly because they had just split the school in half and they weren't sure they would be able to compete in Football with the Rosemount's and Lakeville North's. The funny thing is they would probably fit in just fine with the South Suburban schools in football now.
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They would’ve fit in fine the last ten years too. But they actually wouldn’t because they’re soft and don’t think they can compete.


Yup. Chaska shouldn’t complain about anything really. A privileged district economically who has put themselves in a position to dominate by choosing who to be paired with in sports. Then the fan comes on here and complains the mshsl gave them too tough of a section. Boo hoo. I feel so bad for them.


You know who I actually feel bad for in that section? Jefferson.
Totally outgunned and have to hang out with all those west metro folk during the section tourney
 

Some guy said:
They would’ve fit in fine the last ten years too. But they actually wouldn’t because they’re soft and don’t think they can compete.


Yup. Chaska shouldn’t complain about anything really. A privileged district economically who has put themselves in a position to dominate by choosing who to be paired with in sports. Then the fan comes on here and complains the mshsl gave them too tough of a section. Boo hoo. I feel so bad for them.


You know who I actually feel bad for in that section? Jefferson.
Totally outgunned and have to hang out with all those west metro folk during the section tourney
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You are coming off great in this thread.:drink:
 



march madness said:
The 5a bracket is entirely seeded from 1-32. There are no sections. Meaning tough sections like the Lake only gets one team to state. In the colorado system Hopkins would probably be a top 4 seed playing one of the bottom teams. Wayzata and Eden Prarie and Edina would also be in the top 15 of the 32 teams. Meaning the best teams all have a shot. In minnesota's system the second best team may not "make state".

I also like Wisconsin I believe who has a seperate tourney for the private schools.
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MSHSL gets approached about it every year for seeding 1-64 in AAAA. It gets voted down every year too. This year they are looking at a different proposal that would still allow sections to normal the first round or two, then they'd reseed. I've been a long proponent that you have all the sections get themselves to the section finals and take the final 16 and shuffle them. It still allows for some regional excitement, but then allows the Wayzatas and Hopkins of the world to be happy as well.
 

Dawson Garcia played last night, I don't think he is 100% but he still looked good. Prior Lake pulled away from a scrappy Jefferson team who didn't play anyone over 6'4". PL now will play Shako for the 3rd time this season, PL was won both games. It's stupid inter-conference teams play in the section, 2AAAA is loaded this year.
 
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abrams said:
Dawson Garcia played last night, I don't think he is 100% but he still looked good. Prior Lake pulled away from a scrappy Jefferson team who did play anyone over 6'4". PL now will play Shako for the 3rd time this season, PL was won both games. It's stupid inter-conference teams play in the section, 2AAAA is loaded this year.
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Interconference teams play in sections in all classes and is significantly more prevalent in out-state and smaller classes. . It's actually quite common and MSHSL actually does a really good job in AAAA of moving them around.
 

manderson1984 said:
MSHSL gets approached about it every year for seeding 1-64 in AAAA. It gets voted down every year too. This year they are looking at a different proposal that would still allow sections to normal the first round or two, then they'd reseed. I've been a long proponent that you have all the sections get themselves to the section finals and take the final 16 and shuffle them. It still allows for some regional excitement, but then allows the Wayzatas and Hopkins of the world to be happy as well.
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Let’s definitely change the whole system to appease the west metro. Doing that has worked so well in football scheduling.
 



abrams said:
Dawson Garcia played last night, I don't think he is 100% but he still looked good. Prior Lake pulled away from a scrappy Jefferson team who didn't play anyone over 6'4". PL now will play Shako for the 3rd time this season, PL was won both games. It's stupid inter-conference teams play in the section, 2AAAA is loaded this year.
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Meh, there are 35 teams in the state that could produce the same record as chaska has against chaska’s schedule.
It is the best section, but people are pretending like the 5th team in the section is a top 10 team. They aren’t.
 

Some guy said:
Let’s definitely change the whole system to appease the west metro. Doing that has worked so well in football scheduling.
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I'd argue the super 32 for football has been a great success. I'd like to see football morph the other 5 classes (not counting 9 man) into 4. I thought it'd be a valuable way to go for basketball too. Do a super 32 or even 48, doing 84-96 in AAA, 96 in AA, put the rest in A. It's not just west metro. The Woodbury, East Ridge, CDH section is a meat grinder too.
 

manderson1984 said:
I'd argue the super 32 for football has been a great success. I'd like to see football morph the other 5 classes (not counting 9 man) into 4. I thought it'd be a valuable way to go for basketball too. Do a super 32 or even 48, doing 84-96 in AAA, 96 in AA, put the rest in A. It's not just west metro. The Woodbury, East Ridge, CDH section is a meat grinder too.
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You clearly don’t know what your talking about.
First of all there is no super 32.

There is 31 because the MSHSL decided it was unfair to make coon rapids play anoka but it wasn’t unfair to make st Francis play coon rapids.

For scheduling, there isn’t 32 or 31, there is 28.
Because of this booster clubs across the metro are short money compared to most years because there are no fans at the games. Teams like lakeville south play against maple grove but not apple valley.

Second of all,
The super 32 (31) is running out of money because no one attends the section crossover games. Sections are low on cash because they’ve destroyed conference and section rivalries.


By all means, ruin big school basketball too
 

Some guy said:
You clearly don’t know what your talking about.
First of all there is no super 32.

There is 31 because the MSHSL decided it was unfair to make coon rapids play anoka but it wasn’t unfair to make st Francis play coon rapids.

For scheduling, there isn’t 32 or 31, there is 28.
Because of this booster clubs across the metro are short money compared to most years because there are no fans at the games. Teams like lakeville south play against maple grove but not apple valley.

Second of all,
The super 32 (31) is running out of money because no one attends the section crossover games. Sections are low on cash because they’ve destroyed conference and section rivalries.


By all means, ruin big school basketball too
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I'm sorry I've offended you and yes, my knowledge of HS, College, and NBA basketball is more than Football. My point was more with the actual competitive balance of HS Football being better. I'd also say with the exception of Apple Valley, Osseo, and PC, that the balance for AAAA basketball is not even and that the final teams are mostly if not all super 31 (again apologize for the glaring and terrible clerical error). Teams of enrollment levels in the bottom half of that class typically do not compete or are even ranked in the top 10 in state. Current case in point right now, that within the top 10 you have Park Center (larger enrollment, F & R lunch population lowers their number), Cretin (they opt up for everything anyways), and Chaska (growing, mostly well to do district) are currently ranked in the top ten that are not within the largest 31 enrollments in the state.

Now for scheduling purposes, we can both agree that district scheduling is not one of the greater things around. That was for the appeasement of out-state teams and Eden Prairie mostly from my understanding. Would you prefer that the MSHSL just go back to the old days and force certain conferences to take in other teams for scheduling or do you have another type of solution? Less classes? I don't and will not ever think their is a need for this for scheduling basketball games as most teams fill their schedules just fine.
 



manderson1984 said:
I'm sorry I've offended you and yes, my knowledge of HS, College, and NBA basketball is more than Football. My point was more with the actual competitive balance of HS Football being better. I'd also say with the exception of Apple Valley, Osseo, and PC, that the balance for AAAA basketball is not even and that the final teams are mostly if not all super 31 (again apologize for the glaring and terrible clerical error). Teams of enrollment levels in the bottom half of that class typically do not compete or are even ranked in the top 10 in state. Current case in point right now, that within the top 10 you have Park Center (larger enrollment, F & R lunch population lowers their number), Cretin (they opt up for everything anyways), and Chaska (growing, mostly well to do district) are currently ranked in the top ten that are not within the largest 31 enrollments in the state.

Now for scheduling purposes, we can both agree that district scheduling is not one of the greater things around. That was for the appeasement of out-state teams and Eden Prairie mostly from my understanding. Would you prefer that the MSHSL just go back to the old days and force certain conferences to take in other teams for scheduling or do you have another type of solution? Less classes? I don't and will not ever think their is a need for this for scheduling basketball games as most teams fill their schedules just fine.
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The MSHSL still does this.
The MSHSL just forced the lake conference to take Buffalo and STMA starting next year I believe. (It might start in two years).

I am in favor of the state high school league being dropped. Start over with a new organization. Over the decades the bureaucrats have slowly been ruining HS football and to a lesser extent basketball.


This isn’t going to happen.


I am not in favor of rigging the playoffs because team X and Y think their section is too hard. Too many bad side effects of doing this for a purely subjective opinion. I am not in favor of the MSHSL having any ties to regular season scheduling in any sport.
 

Chaska is ranked 10th in the state? 21-5 record?!?!
 

Some guy said:
The MSHSL still does this.
The MSHSL just forced the lake conference to take Buffalo and STMA starting next year I believe. (It might start in two years).

I am in favor of the state high school league being dropped. Start over with a new organization. Over the decades the bureaucrats have slowly been ruining HS football and to a lesser extent basketball.


This isn’t going to happen.


I am not in favor of rigging the playoffs because team X and Y think their section is too hard. Too many bad side effects of doing this for a purely subjective opinion. I am not in favor of the MSHSL having any ties to regular season scheduling in any sport.
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STMA, Rogers, and Buffalo all applied to the NW Suburban and only Rogers was accepted. Then STMA and Buffalo asked the M8 to kick them out (most M8s wanted them out as well). They would've been accepted to the Lake, but a few schools (mainly Edina thought the drive was too far). They wanted to make the MSHSL force them into the NWSC or Lake. The MSHSL has been forcing enough teams in the NWSC, so I think they chose Lake this time. The MSHSL only steps in when a team has been denied from a conference 3 times and then they place them. They do their best to stay out of this otherwise besides the district scheduling in football. This again was at the request of outstate schools as well that couldn't get games because the smaller schools didn't want to play them and metro schools wont travel. What is the solution for Eden Prarie who no one would schedule? Or what about Bemidji, Duluth East, Marshall? The MSHSL just didn't make these decisions for fun, they did them with a purpose. If we scrapped (which you admittedly said wouldn't happen) then we'd just go through the same problems that led to these decisions being made in the first place.

I'm not saying the MSHSL is a wonderful organization, but I don't think they are the main cause for HS sports popularity dropping nor are they the main culprit of HS football or bball being "ruined". Change is coming the basketball state tournament soon and I think you'll either see a seeded 16 team tournament at minimum for AAAA (might end up being 32 or 64 even).
 

I’ve heard they may do section games first round then crossover the second round.


Then 3 years later all the ADs will complain about the sections running out of money due to small crowds. Rinse. repeat from 6A football.

The Lake didn’t want STMA and Buffalo. Not because of distances. Minnetonka and Edina didn’t want to be associated with St Michael and buffalo academically. It is bad for their recruiting (not sports recruiting...their open enrollment recruiting). The state placed them.


Quite frankly, I don’t care what happens to eden prairie and Minnetonka not being able to schedule football games.
Bloomington Jefferson doesn’t play Eagan anymore because Jefferson doesn’t have a chance, why should Eagan have to play eden prairie when they don’t have a chance?

Eden prairie and Minnetonka could play each other multiple times if they wanted. They don’t want to because then they might lose to each other. The state high school league should prevent Rosemount from playing Farmington and prevent Burnsville from playing Eagan for the sake of fairness to schools like eden prairie.
It is ridiculous.
What is really ridiculous is making a schedule that sends 9B football players from wayzata to lakeville at 3pm on a Friday when lakeville has 12 similar sized schools within a 15 minute drive of them because we don’t want to make eden praire have to schedule themselves.
 

Some guy said:
I’ve heard they may do section games first round then crossover the second round.


Then 3 years later all the ADs will complain about the sections running out of money due to small crowds. Rinse. repeat from 6A football.

The Lake didn’t want STMA and Buffalo. Not because of distances. Minnetonka and Edina didn’t want to be associated with St Michael and buffalo academically. It is bad for their recruiting (not sports recruiting...their open enrollment recruiting). The state placed them.


Quite frankly, I don’t care what happens to eden prairie and Minnetonka not being able to schedule football games.
Bloomington Jefferson doesn’t play Eagan anymore because Jefferson doesn’t have a chance, why should Eagan have to play eden prairie when they don’t have a chance?

Eden prairie and Minnetonka could play each other multiple times if they wanted. They don’t want to because then they might lose to each other. The state high school league should prevent Rosemount from playing Farmington and prevent Burnsville from playing Eagan for the sake of fairness to schools like eden prairie.
It is ridiculous.
What is really ridiculous is making a schedule that sends 9B football players from wayzata to lakeville at 3pm on a Friday when lakeville has 12 similar sized schools within a 15 minute drive of them because we don’t want to make eden praire have to schedule themselves.
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STMA's achievement in math and reading are actually higher than Edina's, and close to Minnetonkas, Buffalo's is lower, but they are still a good amount above the state average. Both districts are thought of and regarded pretty highly academically so I don't know where you heard that information or why they would think they get to carry that bias. Travel costs do matter to districts though as well. With a lot of these changes, schools are playing just a conference for 9th grade games and helping alleviate some of those issues.

I don't disagree about Eden Prairie, but it wasn't just them. It was plenty of other outstate schools that had issues scheduling football and it had to do with competitive balance which led to our system that we are currently in. The lost of rivalries is a sad biproduct and the MSHSL has looked at allowing one none district game as a way to preserve those rivalries.
 

manderson1984 said:
STMA's achievement in math and reading are actually higher than Edina's, and close to Minnetonkas, Buffalo's is lower, but they are still a good amount above the state average. Both districts are thought of and regarded pretty highly academically so I don't know where you heard that information or why they would think they get to carry that bias. Travel costs do matter to districts though as well. With a lot of these changes, schools are playing just a conference for 9th grade games and helping alleviate some of those issues.

I don't disagree about Eden Prairie, but it wasn't just them. It was plenty of other outstate schools that had issues scheduling football and it had to do with competitive balance which led to our system that we are currently in. The lost of rivalries is a sad biproduct and the MSHSL has looked at allowing one none district game as a way to preserve those rivalries.
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To your first paragraph.

Minnetonka and Edina make their money off recruiting kids from chaska Chan, robinsdale, golden valley, Minneapolis, etc.

I don’t care what STMA’s math and reading scores are because they don’t matter.
Being culturally tied to buffalo and STMA hurts the academic prestige of the lake when you’re trying to recruit kids who might otherwise be going to private schools. I’ve literally had conversations with people who were in the decision making of turning buffalo and STMA down and those people said the Minnetonka and Edina people expressed those very concerns. Eden Prairie, hopkins, and wayzata aren’t as reliant on open enrollment.


Nobody is scheduling alternative 9th grade football schedules. So not sure where you heard that. The only alternative scheduling that occurs is when a team on the varsity doesn’t field a team in a level. For instants many programs no longer have 10th grade teams.
 

Some guy said:
To your first paragraph.

Minnetonka and Edina make their money off recruiting kids from chaska Chan, robinsdale, golden valley, Minneapolis, etc.

I don’t care what STMA’s math and reading scores are because they don’t matter.
Being culturally tied to buffalo and STMA hurts the academic prestige of the lake when you’re trying to recruit kids who might otherwise be going to private schools. I’ve literally had conversations with people who were in the decision making of turning buffalo and STMA down and those people said the Minnetonka and Edina people expressed those very concerns. Eden Prairie, hopkins, and wayzata aren’t as reliant on open enrollment.


Nobody is scheduling alternative 9th grade football schedules. So not sure where you heard that. The only alternative scheduling that occurs is when a team on the varsity doesn’t field a team in a level. For instants many programs no longer have 10th grade teams.
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I get what your saying. I also had conversations with people in the room in those decisions as well, so please don't take it as I was saying you're sources weren't correct as I'm sure they are. I brought up the test scores for a couple reasons. Those scores are something used in recruiting students who are looking to enroll outside of their district. I'm well aware of Minnetonka's and Edina's reliance on open enrollment and my point was that they aren't as far away as some of the people think. You are right though, that for some, any "outstate" ring of the metro isn't good for some elite who are deciding between privates and other options.

M8 and CLC schools would have alternative 9th grade football schedules at times to avoid trips to Duluth, Bemidji, and Moorhead when the MSHSL forced those conferences to take those schools in. Also Anoka-Hennepin district has had a rule that 9th grade teams can't travel outside of the conference in the past. That may have changed with the new football alignments and I would not be aware or sure of that. I'm saying schools could choose to do so if they wanted so to avoid the travel.
 

Was at Prior Lake High School to watch PL vs Shako in the section semi-final game. The place was PACKED to over capacity, people sitting in the aisles, 4 deep around the top walking track . . . packed. Shako was tough in the first half but PL pulled away. Dawson is still gimpy on that foot, Robert Jones was dominate I thought. Dawson had 21 and Robert had 23, Robert looks good against the smaller Shako forwards. Still a miss in my book for the gophers, but who knows how it will play out.
 

Maybe the gophers need to have Robert Jones reconsider his college choice? If Curry cannot get healthy I wouldnt doubt he would battle Omersa to start!
 


I watched both Lakeville North and Eden Prairie the last two nights and that matchup should be an awesome game. Lakeville North is so deep and pretty physical, but Dobbs the PG for Eden Prairie can just control a game. If both teams were playing the night before, I would probably pick Lakeville North. Since this is the opening round of the tournament, I'm going to pick EP to win a great game.

For those who were at Prior Lake last night, I can't imagine a better atmosphere for a sporting event. There is nothing as exciting to attend as high school section basketball.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I watched both Lakeville North and Eden Prairie the last two nights and that matchup should be an awesome game. Lakeville North is so deep and pretty physical, but Dobbs the PG for Eden Prairie can just control a game. If both teams were playing the night before, I would probably pick Lakeville North. Since this is the opening round of the tournament, I'm going to pick EP to win a great game.

For those who were at Prior Lake last night, I can't imagine a better atmosphere for a sporting event. There is nothing as exciting to attend as high school section basketball.
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I agree with your last statement, yet many in the state want to effectively end high school section basketball so prior lake can lose next Wednesday instead of last night
 

Some guy said:
I agree with your last statement, yet many in the state want to effectively end high school section basketball so prior lake can lose next Wednesday instead of last night
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If they seed 1-64, why would that dictate which venues are used and when the games are?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 

Some guy said:
I agree with your last statement, yet many in the state want to effectively end high school section basketball so prior lake can lose next Wednesday instead of last night
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I didn't buy one of the 1500 tickets that were sold in the pre sale at the schools, so I had to get to Prior Lake about 4:30 to wait in line for an hour to get one of the 500 tickets they sold before the game (I heard they actually sold 900 more last night). They didn't start selling tickets until 5:30, but I heard from a friend who works in the school that there was a line already started before 3:00. When I got to Prior Lake High School, there were already about 300-400 people in line for tickets and another 60 in line who had already purchased their tickets waiting to get into the gym. After I bought my ticket, I went upstairs to the end of the line which went to the back of the school. When I walked into the gym, it was pretty much already full by about 6:00. I was lucky, because I found a seat by some people who I knew who weren't from Eden Prairie or Prior Lake either. The atmosphere was electric. Before the game some people in line were talking about how they should have had the game someplace that could handle a crowd of that size. Maybe Concordia or St. Olaf. After the game, I'm glad it was played in Prior Lake's gym. It made for a great experience.
 

AO54 said:
If they seed 1-64, why would that dictate which venues are used and when the games are?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
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Travel....proximity. Maybe even rivalries that have been developed.
 

i like the idea of expanding the state tourney a little bit...maybe only having two divisions instead of 4...you have your 16 teams from each sections and another 16 per bracket....we can decide those teams by using net lol.....no seriously though id be alright with something like this....maybe just have the coaches from the schools that automatically qualified vote (integrity required) ...or press
 

ethomasp31 said:
I didn't buy one of the 1500 tickets that were sold in the pre sale at the schools, so I had to get to Prior Lake about 4:30 to wait in line for an hour to get one of the 500 tickets they sold before the game (I heard they actually sold 900 more last night). They didn't start selling tickets until 5:30, but I heard from a friend who works in the school that there was a line already started before 3:00. When I got to Prior Lake High School, there were already about 300-400 people in line for tickets and another 60 in line who had already purchased their tickets waiting to get into the gym. After I bought my ticket, I went upstairs to the end of the line which went to the back of the school. When I walked into the gym, it was pretty much already full by about 6:00. I was lucky, because I found a seat by some people who I knew who weren't from Eden Prairie or Prior Lake either. The atmosphere was electric. Before the game some people in line were talking about how they should have had the game someplace that could handle a crowd of that size. Maybe Concordia or St. Olaf. After the game, I'm glad it was played in Prior Lake's gym. It made for a great experience.
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Neutral site games are not as fun for high school basketball.



One thing that happened as a consequence of non-section football in 6A there is a lot less energy and excitement for the “section final” round.
It used to be get out of your section and go to state was a huge accomplishment.
Now it isn’t really seen by casual people until final 4 at Us bank because there’s isn’t really a culminating event like a section final. In my opinion, the lack of sections in 6A football has hurt many programs and the sport generally. It has really helped a couple of teams though at the expense of the majority of the teams. That is obviously just my opinion. The team that is my team has been helped by it is the road to the state tourney has gotten easier as a result of no section play.

I hope they don’t do that to basketball.
 

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