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  1. #16
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    I only saw him in the Alabama game but he didn’t remind me of Brees or Russell Wilson, both better IMO and one a Hall of Fame talent.

    He looked like a slot receiver playing QB, with 3 or 4 late prayer passes early in the game that rightfully should have been picked off except for DB hands.. Accuracy was average at best. He is definitely a dynamic runner. One game sample size vs a really good defense but I don’t get the hype. He had really good stats, but at a helmet school with a historically prolific offense. This will be interesting to watch.


  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post
    I only saw him in the Alabama game but he didn’t remind me of Brees or Russell Wilson, both better IMO and one a Hall of Fame talent.

    He looked like a slot receiver playing QB, with 3 or 4 late prayer passes early in the game that rightfully should have been picked off except for DB hands.. Accuracy was average at best. He is definitely a dynamic runner. One game sample size vs a really good defense but I don’t get the hype. He had really good stats, but at a helmet school with a historically prolific offense. This will be interesting to watch.
    He is more similar to Mahomes or Manziel than Wilson or Brees.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by die hard gopher View Post
    He is more similar to Mahomes or Manziel than Wilson or Brees.
    Well, Mahomes has a more protypical build, more of a pocket passer. I’ll buy the Manziel comparison since Murray rushed for over a 1000 yards and like Johnny his ability to extend and then hit some highlight passes helped make him elite in college. I love that ability but as an overall passer... I wonder how he’s going to fare in the NFL.

    Why did he go from a pretty universally-regarded 2nd or even 3rd rounder in late 2018 the top of the draft in a few months, particularly after a pretty underwhelming game vs Alabama? I genuinely didn’t follow that story so I don’t know what changed.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post
    Well, Mahomes has a more protypical build, more of a pocket passer. I’ll buy the Manziel comparison since Murray rushed for over a 1000 yards and like Johnny his ability to extend and then hit some highlight passes helped make him elite in college. I love that ability but as an overall passer... I wonder how he’s going to fare in the NFL.

    Why did he go from a pretty universally-regarded 2nd or even 3rd rounder in late 2018 the top of the draft in a few months, particularly after a pretty underwhelming game vs Alabama? I genuinely didn’t follow that story so I don’t know what changed.
    The biggest thing was that he committed to Football. The 2nd and third round grade was because scouts didn't know if he would stick with football if he was drafted and felt it would be too risky. But choosing FB and measuring over 5-10 and 207 with decent hands has been big for him. Kiper has said he is a top 15 talent but mocked him in the third round back then. Also Mahomes does a lot of damage on throwing on the run when avoid the rush. His ability to throw in the run is what reminds me of Murray.

    I would also say the Alabama game was his worst of the season, or at least of the one's I watched.

  5. #20
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    I know a lot of people can't stand Troy Aikman as an announcer, but when Russell Wilson started in the NFL Joe Buck asked Aikman about height. Aikman basically scoffed at height being a factor. He said while he was tall (6'4") it's not like he could see over other people's helmets, especially as big as some of their linemen were. He said he never felt like it was a huge advantage being tall, since either way it was a matter of finding the passing lanes. But ask any QB talent scout and they will say "height" almost right away.

    And while a lot of QB's are tall, a lot of that is just tall guys with athletic ability get put at QB early since "you need height". I'm convinced in 10-15 years you won't hear that height argument being made anymore.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeville Goldy View Post
    I know a lot of people can't stand Troy Aikman as an announcer, but when Russell Wilson started in the NFL Joe Buck asked Aikman about height. Aikman basically scoffed at height being a factor. He said while he was tall (6'4") it's not like he could see over other people's helmets, especially as big as some of their linemen were. He said he never felt like it was a huge advantage being tall, since either way it was a matter of finding the passing lanes. But ask any QB talent scout and they will say "height" almost right away.

    And while a lot of QB's are tall, a lot of that is just tall guys with athletic ability get put at QB early since "you need height". I'm convinced in 10-15 years you won't hear that height argument being made anymore.
    There is a correlation between height and arm strength?

    College football is full of shorter QBs who have a ton of success in college but they can't translate to the pros.

    With the spread offenses, I wouldn't be surprised to see more 6'0" QBs have success in the NFL, but height will always matter for the position.

  7. #22

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    I think height is 100% a factor.

    The thing is that everything else is more of a factor.

    IMO QBs are just born with those skills and others aren't, and height doesn't change that.

  8. #23

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    I think there's a pretty good chance that the bias against shorter QBs is exactly the reason you don't see more QBs under a certain height in the NFL. It's become a self-perpetuating myth that QBs under a certain height cannot succeed. To succeed, a player has to be given a fair chance. It could be that the built-in prejudices and biases are difficult to overcome.

    I'm old enough to remember very clearly when NFL coaches and scouts and owners seemed to believe that black players were unlikely to be good NFL quarterbacks. I'm pretty certain there were black athletes who would have been excellent quarterbacks but were never given a real chance.

    Conventional thinking is hard to overcome.
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  9. #24

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    I'm sure there are some expert physicist on this board, or at least some that can pretend to be, but I have to think there is a correlation between height and throwing strength. Mind you, just as in most things, there are exceptions. We're seeing it in MLB baseball as well. 15 years ago there were only a handful of tall (6'4"+) pitchers. Now there are only a handful it seems, under 6'0". Greater height often leads to larger hand size as well, and a bigger hand can typically throw a football better. I doubt height has much to do with seeing over the line, and more to do with the mechanical advantages a taller person might have throwing a football.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGopher12 View Post
    I'm sure there are some expert physicist on this board, or at least some that can pretend to be, but I have to think there is a correlation between height and throwing strength. Mind you, just as in most things, there are exceptions. We're seeing it in MLB baseball as well. 15 years ago there were only a handful of tall (6'4"+) pitchers. Now there are only a handful it seems, under 6'0". Greater height often leads to larger hand size as well, and a bigger hand can typically throw a football better as well. I doubt height has much to do with seeing over the line, and more to do with the mechanical advantages a taller person might have throwing a football.
    Now that is logic I could buy. Makes sense. Well put!

    The "seeing over the line" thing never did make any sense to me. No one is tall enough to "see over" a bunch of huge offensive and defensive linemen.
    --------------

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGopher12 View Post
    I'm sure there are some expert physicist on this board, or at least some that can pretend to be, but I have to think there is a correlation between height and throwing strength. Mind you, just as in most things, there are exceptions. We're seeing it in MLB baseball as well. 15 years ago there were only a handful of tall (6'4"+) pitchers. Now there are only a handful it seems, under 6'0". Greater height often leads to larger hand size as well, and a bigger hand can typically throw a football better. I doubt height has much to do with seeing over the line, and more to do with the mechanical advantages a taller person might have throwing a football.
    A pitcher stands on a mound of dirt and throwing downward with gravity. A QB is on a level surface, trying to fight gravity. I don’t think you can make any sort of comparison.
    Gopher football fan since 1924. DNA-wise.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by highwayman View Post
    A pitcher stands on a mound of dirt and throwing downward with gravity. A QB is on a level surface, trying to fight gravity. I donít think you can make any sort of comparison.
    Tall pitchers also throw the ball with more velocity than shorter pitchers.

    It's been studied, there are several places to find it online.

    Oh, and no, pointing to one short pitcher with a huge arm doesn't disprove those studies.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by highwayman View Post
    A pitcher stands on a mound of dirt and throwing downward with gravity. A QB is on a level surface, trying to fight gravity. I donít think you can make any sort of comparison.
    For the record, gravity acts on both footballs and baseballs.

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  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Word View Post
    For the record, gravity acts on both footballs and baseballs.

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    What is this sorcery you speak of?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by die hard gopher View Post
    Yep, avoiding batted down passes is mostly about finding passing lanes in between your offensive lineman, something Kyler does very well.
    Agree...and having linemen that know how to defeat hands.

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