JUCO football's cloudy future

BleedGopher

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per Axios Sports:

From Mike: Troubling financials, negative press and NCAA rules have put the future of junior college football (or JUCO) on shaky ground. Several programs have shut down in recent years, and the fear is that this trend will continue.

Why it matters: Junior college football has long been a lifeline for players who might have otherwise fallen through the cracks, while also serving as a farm system for Division I's top programs.

Lifeline: Four junior college players have gone on to win the Heisman (Cam Newton, O.J. Simpson, Roger Staubach, Mike Rozier), and eight participated in Super Bowl LIII. Aaron Rodgers played JUCO ball. So did Alvin Kamara.

Farm system: An estimated 800 JUCO players join FBS programs each year, with about one-fifth of them joining Power 5 schools. Perennial powerhouse Oklahoma, for instance, has signed 18 JUCO players over the last five years.

What's happening: Junior colleges face significant hurdles just to stay afloat, and those hurdles have gotten higher in recent years.

Dwindling financial support is putting cash-strapped schools even deeper in the red. Itawamba Community College in Mississippi spent $666,806 on football in 2016-17 but only made $17,346 in ticket sales — the program's only revenue source.

New FBS transfer rules mean that players who would have previously transferred to JUCO are transferring to other D-I schools, instead.

A negative perception of JUCO culture has been made infinitely worse by Netflix's Last Chance U. The Hard Knocks-esque show focuses on the drama and, thus, doesn't tell the full story. It has also been mired in controversy.

What's next: A class action lawsuit is being filed that could lead to the reinstatement of one of the recently shuttered programs, and plenty of administrators and coaches across the country are working to fix the system.

The bottom line: Junior college football is devouring itself. Fewer programs mean more travel. More travel means less money. And less money means less football.

Go Gophers!!
 

Yikes. I wasn't aware of this. I wonder if juco ball falters, lower academic tier DII schools will fill the void? Either way: fewer teams, less opportunity.
 

When they speak of dwindling financial support does that mean reduced state funding or enrollment or is it a result of increased overhead, administration, counselors, etc.
 

I've read similar articles about DII sports. Give out scholarships, don't have TV deals, don't sell a ton of tickets (usually), etc. and its hard to survive. Makes sense JUCOs would be the same way.
 

Yikes. I wasn't aware of this. I wonder if juco ball falters, lower academic tier DII schools will fill the void? Either way: fewer teams, less opportunity.

Are there any JUCOs in the Twin Cities Metro that still have football? Golden Valley Lutheran doesn't exist anymore. Lakewood (Now Century) and InverHills dropped their programs years ago. IIRC correctly Anoka Ramsey doesn't, I think even Normandale did. Not sure about North Hennepin.
 



It's not just JUCOs, football participation and programs are slowly dropping each year. It's not a "fall of a cliff" decrease, but it's happening. The big players in the space (e.g., the Power 5 and the NFL) are going to have to start supporting the lower levels to keep those teams financially viable and the participation numbers up. BTW, there's other sports industries that are already doing this. For example in skiing, the Vail's and Aspen's of the world are making big investments in small Midwestern areas (e.g., Afton Alps).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/capita...raditions-from-around-the-globe/#6db3d4a7e068
 

It's not just JUCOs, football participation and programs are slowly dropping each year. It's not a "fall of a cliff" decrease, but it's happening. The big players in the space (e.g., the Power 5 and the NFL) are going to have to start supporting the lower levels to keep those teams financially viable and the participation numbers up. BTW, there's other sports industries that are already doing this. For example in skiing, the Vail's and Aspen's of the world are making big investments in small Midwestern areas (e.g., Afton Alps).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/capita...raditions-from-around-the-globe/#6db3d4a7e068

What’s going on in the ski industry is not good. In my experience these industry consolidations invariably end in higher costs for the end users. Window rates have skyrocketed while the corporate entities cater slightly cheaper multi-resort season passes to the well heeled and willing to travel. They are hurting independent hills and making skiing, real estate, amenities etc at larger resorts prohibitively expensive for infrequent skiers, young people, young families. I have noticed smaller crowds...and higher prices.
 

What’s going on in the ski industry is not good. In my experience these industry consolidations invariably end in higher costs for the end users. Window rates have skyrocketed while the corporate entities cater slightly cheaper multi-resort season passes to the well heeled and willing to travel. They are hurting independent hills and making skiing, real estate, amenities etc at larger resorts prohibitively expensive for infrequent skiers, young people, young families. I have noticed smaller crowds...and higher prices.

Yep, skiing is hurting. I was just trying to point out that it's not unheard of for the rich folks in a sport to help out the lower tiers in keeping the sport going. Without the Vails and Aspens of the world, a lot of the Midwest areas would have gone the route of Snow Crest and Birch Park. In some cases it's direct investment (e.g., Afton) and in others its basically donation of ski lifts and such (e.g., Lutsen). I'm hoping the NFL and P5 will help out with less profitable venues, like High Schools and Middle School programs. Right now I don't hear any talk on that happening...
 



per Axios Sports:


Lifeline: Four junior college players have gone on to win the Heisman (Cam Newton, O.J. Simpson, Roger Staubach, Mike Rozier), and eight participated in Super Bowl LIII. Aaron Rodgers played JUCO ball. So did Alvin Kamara.

To be picky, Staubach went to a military academy in New Mexico, which in IMHO is different from a JC.

ky
 

All Arizona JUCOs have eliminated football due to budget cuts, too bad too as they had a pretty deep tradition at some of those schools. I'm guessing they won't be the only state doing so either.
 

I think Rochester Tech and ND Science in Wahpeton still have their programs, and those churn out a good number of DI players each year?
 

When there are college tuition debt problems nationwide I have a tough time in My own mind justifying public Juco, division II, and division III sports.



Last chance U has hurt Perception of Juco football.
I’ve seen anecdotal evidence of last chance u convincing multiple parents not to let their kid play High a school football.
 



Let the NFL start a minor league. They can buy out the AAF & use that maybe? The truth is a lot of football players have no business stepping on a college campus & without diving into the data, it feels like that's magnified with Jucos. Just pay the guys to play football.
 

Let the NFL start a minor league. They can buy out the AAF & use that maybe? The truth is a lot of football players have no business stepping on a college campus & without diving into the data, it feels like that's magnified with Jucos. Just pay the guys to play football.

The US, by far and wide, has romanticized the association between sports teams and schools.

Even here in the Twin Cities, for a lot of sports, it matters far more what club you play for during most of the year ... but there is still this specially carved out timeframe in the year so that players can go play for their high school teams.


Not 100%, but a lot of other places in the world ... sports is its own thing, with only clubs, and it has nothing to do with school.
 

The US, by far and wide, has romanticized the association between sports teams and schools.

Even here in the Twin Cities, for a lot of sports, it matters far more what club you play for during most of the year ... but there is still this specially carved out timeframe in the year so that players can go play for their high school teams.


Not 100%, but a lot of other places in the world ... sports is its own thing, with only clubs, and it has nothing to do with school.

Agreed 100%. I've got kids playing club sports at a high level. Some kids are even skipping High School now to focus on club season. I've long suggested we turn the NCAA into a club league. Kids would play for the club that represents the U of M. They could either have the education, room, board & perks as it works today, or choose a club provided apartment (off-campus), company car & $500 a week. Of course the details would have to be ironed out, but that's the gist of it. Why pretend some of these guys are actual "student-athletes"?

My college roommate was a tutor at the U, then later Miami Fla & Colorado St. There were unqualified students at all three, but Miami Fla was in a class by itself! He has stories of guys who were functionally illiterate. Guys who read at a 4th grade level. Guys lighting up joints during tutoring sessions. His guys didn't even go to class. He went to class instead, took notes, then made copies of the notes for the players & briefed them on how to answer likely test questions in the athletic tutoring offices. No reason those guys should have been on a college campus pretending to be students, just so they could play ball. Watch "Last Chance U" to get an idea of where some of these guys are coming from academically. It's a farce and everyone knows it.
 

The difficulty with dissociating the athletes from school and schooling is that those things are why the sport is as popular as it is. The alumni (mainly), their families, and other fans tired of professional sports support the teams and pay the bills via tickets and tv eyeballs.

If you create a second tier pro league those warm fuzzies go away.

More importantly I think a majority of athletes use their networks, internships, and yes book education as springboards to a better life after football. If you take that away you are figuratively and literally taking a winning lottery ticket away from thousands of athletes and worst of all hurting some of the ill-advantaged. Be careful what you wish for.
 

Some kids are even skipping High School now to focus on club season.
This is a horrible development. It is a disservice to almost everyone involved. Except, of course, those making money off all the will-never-be pro athletes.
 

This is a horrible development. It is a disservice to almost everyone involved. Except, of course, those making money off all the will-never-be pro athletes.

It’s the parents’ faults for paying those fees.
 

Juco? Do people actually go to juco games? I'm thinking dozens of spectators going to a game and sitting on the players bench with over salted popcorn and a very syruppie soda in a paper cup. And, admission! What admission price. They are sitting on the players bench.
 

This is a horrible development. It is a disservice to almost everyone involved. Except, of course, those making money off all the will-never-be pro athletes.

Disagree. The coaching and dedication of teammates at many high schools is part-time and inconsistent (even with good intentions) if one is lucky, and sometimes terrible if unlucky. If the student athlete lives in a district that doesn't offer the level of play or social experience desired, club programs can fill that void. It's no different from joining a golf club, tennis club, health club, swim club, dinner club...
 

Agreed 100%. I've got kids playing club sports at a high level. Some kids are even skipping High School now to focus on club season. I've long suggested we turn the NCAA into a club league. Kids would play for the club that represents the U of M. They could either have the education, room, board & perks as it works today, or choose a club provided apartment (off-campus), company car & $500 a week. Of course the details would have to be ironed out, but that's the gist of it. Why pretend some of these guys are actual "student-athletes"?

My college roommate was a tutor at the U, then later Miami Fla & Colorado St. There were unqualified students at all three, but Miami Fla was in a class by itself! He has stories of guys who were functionally illiterate. Guys who read at a 4th grade level. Guys lighting up joints during tutoring sessions. His guys didn't even go to class. He went to class instead, took notes, then made copies of the notes for the players & briefed them on how to answer likely test questions in the athletic tutoring offices. No reason those guys should have been on a college campus pretending to be students, just so they could play ball. Watch "Last Chance U" to get an idea of where some of these guys are coming from academically. It's a farce and everyone knows it.

You chose extremes from one end of the spectrum and used that as "evidence" that the system is broken. There are hundreds and thousands of athletes who used college athletics to get good educations and propel them to good jobs and fulfilling lives. I am one of those and am close friends with countless others. And because you have some anecdotal evidence that some don't take advantage of a powerful opportunity we should scrap the system and have college age kids play in a minor league where maybe 5 or 10% might ever play in a major association for a living and the rest head back to a job at a factory if they are lucky? No thanks, I'll take the education I got and the life it got me.
 

You chose extremes from one end of the spectrum and used that as "evidence" that the system is broken. There are hundreds and thousands of athletes who used college athletics to get good educations and propel them to good jobs and fulfilling lives. I am one of those and am close friends with countless others. And because you have some anecdotal evidence that some don't take advantage of a powerful opportunity we should scrap the system and have college age kids play in a minor league where maybe 5 or 10% might ever play in a major association for a living and the rest head back to a job at a factory if they are lucky? No thanks, I'll take the education I got and the life it got me.

There’s a law preventing minor league athletes from going to college, once they’ve called it quits on their sports???
 

There’s a law preventing minor league athletes from going to college, once they’ve called it quits on their sports???

I don't think I really need to explain the difference between a free education and one you have to pay for, do I?
 

I don't think I really need to explain the difference between a free education and one you have to pay for, do I?

Do I need to explain the difference between a free "education", where you're required to spend 20hrs per week minimum with team activities, probably more like 60hrs a week in-season, and you're often so exhausted physically and mentally that the education gets your last energy, and so you're actively encouraged to take an "easy" major ....... and going to school like a normal student, where you can prioritize your studies and even have some time left over to be a regular social student?

Also, can't you save some of your earnings in the minor league to pay for school?
 

The US, by far and wide, has romanticized the association between sports teams and schools.

Even here in the Twin Cities, for a lot of sports, it matters far more what club you play for during most of the year ... but there is still this specially carved out timeframe in the year so that players can go play for their high school teams.


Not 100%, but a lot of other places in the world ... sports is its own thing, with only clubs, and it has nothing to do with school.

From a football standpoint there is really no such thing as club football.

You can count 7 on 7 maybe, but 7 on 7 leagues aren’t real football and college coaches know that.
 

The difficulty with dissociating the athletes from school and schooling is that those things are why the sport is as popular as it is. The alumni (mainly), their families, and other fans tired of professional sports support the teams and pay the bills via tickets and tv eyeballs.

If you create a second tier pro league those warm fuzzies go away.

More importantly I think a majority of athletes use their networks, internships, and yes book education as springboards to a better life after football. If you take that away you are figuratively and literally taking a winning lottery ticket away from thousands of athletes and worst of all hurting some of the ill-advantaged. Be careful what you wish for.

Yup.

Even in sports with club leagues where club leagues are more important. Schools teams often draw bigger crowds
 

Disagree. The coaching and dedication of teammates at many high schools is part-time and inconsistent (even with good intentions) if one is lucky, and sometimes terrible if unlucky. If the student athlete lives in a district that doesn't offer the level of play or social experience desired, club programs can fill that void. It's no different from joining a golf club, tennis club, health club, swim club, dinner club...

Do you pay 10k per year to join the health club while being sold on the idea that you’ll get a college scholarship?

A lot of parents are. Not all parents are doing themselves a disservice.
For a large amount of parents they are doing AAU because someone told them something.

Ironically if they put those thousands of dollars into college saving accounts they’d actually get themselves a half ride or better from their own cash
 

From a football standpoint there is really no such thing as club football.

You can count 7 on 7 maybe, but 7 on 7 leagues aren’t real football and college coaches know that.

This is true. Football is very much dominated by high schools, from grades 9-12, I would guess almost everywhere in the country. Really no clubs, at least not in the cities, that I know of.

I don't think it's a poverty thing either? Because there are lots and lots of club basketball teams. I don't know how many of those pay full cost, though. Bball requires substantially fewer numbers, so might be easier to let a few kids not pay full price, as opposed to 40+.
 

Yup.

Even in sports with club leagues where club leagues are more important. Schools teams often draw bigger crowds

But the very key thing, in my opinion, is that he conflated two separate things, right in his first sentence: school and schooling.

In my opinion, the popularity of school sports comes from alumni and fans of the school brand. Not necessarily because the players are students at the school.
 




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