Raise your hand if.......

Donate To GopherHole
J

JimmyJamesMD

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
13,435
Reaction score
4,692
Points
113
You thought at the end of the season, our two best players would be Oturu and Gabe K.?

I ain't raising my hand. I was optimistic about those two, but they play with skill, IQ, and aren't afraid of the big moment.

The future is bright with those two. Add in Carr and what I hope to be a healthy Curry, and Coffey, and thats a solid starting lineup for whoever the coach is.

That being said, I think these two frosh being the best players is more to do with the disappointment of the upperclassmen, namely Murphy, McBrayer, and Coffey.

I know Murphy gets accolades and is a great player. But on a top 15 team, he is the hustle player, not the star. He's not getting all of the post feeds he gets on the Gophers. He can bully his way into a double double every game. But when its crunch time, and he's playing against a good player/team, he doesn't have a go to move(s), and can't make the 15 footer, so he gets shut down.

McBrayer is also a big disappointment. Can't go right. Has never gone right. Will never go right. We really needed on this team that could create their own shot. McBrayer never developed into that player. I was expecting a big senior year from him. I know his head might not be in the right place, but just speaking the truth. We need more from a senior.

Coffey - was our best player. But teams have figured him out and now he is struggling. Just like dupress Can't go right. Has never gone right. Will never go right. That is unacceptable for our top ball handler. I hope Papa Coffey as happy that Amir got his fair shake at PG. Cant wait for that experiment to end. He cant create when the team needs him to, rarely sets up other teammates, and cant get a three off to save his life.

When my expectations were reasonably high this year, I was expecting really big years from these 3. JM and AC have had their moments, but they dont come up big when upperclassmen should. Dupree is lucky the roster is so bad or he wouldnt be playing very much.

Looking forward to the continued development Gabe and Dan O.

And shame on Pitino for literally having no bench. An injured Curry cant be your best bench player in your 6th season.
 

The question is will Gabe transfer when we get a new coach
 

When did Pitino ever have a bench (other than perhaps his first year)? It's been a chronic problem of his coaching tenure.

I'm not going to get down on Murphy too much. I thought he would have more trouble than usual tonight. Rutgers' defensive strength clearly is on the inside and they are very good rebounders.
 

I can’t bitch about Murphy either. It’s been guard play plain and simple that has sunk this season.
 

If we have even a pulse this year from McBrayer, we have 3 more big 10 wins.

The guy has been beyond brutal.
 


JimmyJamesMD said:
You thought at the end of the season, our two best players would be Oturu and Gabe K.?

I ain't raising my hand. I was optimistic about those two, but they play with skill, IQ, and aren't afraid of the big moment.

The future is bright with those two. Add in Carr and what I hope to be a healthy Curry, and Coffey, and thats a solid starting lineup for whoever the coach is.

That being said, I think these two frosh being the best players is more to do with the disappointment of the upperclassmen, namely Murphy, McBrayer, and Coffey.

I know Murphy gets accolades and is a great player. But on a top 15 team, he is the hustle player, not the star. He's not getting all of the post feeds he gets on the Gophers. He can bully his way into a double double every game. But when its crunch time, and he's playing against a good player/team, he doesn't have a go to move(s), and can't make the 15 footer, so he gets shut down.

McBrayer is also a big disappointment. Can't go right. Has never gone right. Will never go right. We really needed on this team that could create their own shot. McBrayer never developed into that player. I was expecting a big senior year from him. I know his head might not be in the right place, but just speaking the truth. We need more from a senior.

Coffey - was our best player. But teams have figured him out and now he is struggling. Just like dupress Can't go right. Has never gone right. Will never go right. That is unacceptable for our top ball handler. I hope Papa Coffey as happy that Amir got his fair shake at PG. Cant wait for that experiment to end. He cant create when the team needs him to, rarely sets up other teammates, and cant get a three off to save his life.

When my expectations were reasonably high this year, I was expecting really big years from these 3. JM and AC have had their moments, but they dont come up big when upperclassmen should. Dupree is lucky the roster is so bad or he wouldnt be playing very much.

Looking forward to the continued development Gabe and Dan O.

And shame on Pitino for literally having no bench. An injured Curry cant be your best bench player in your 6th season.
Click to expand...

Yep. As I stated in another thread, what a total disaster it would have been without Kal exceeding expectations. I would guess Ricky is as perplexed as the fans as to how poor Hurt, Stull, IW, and to a lesser extent Dupree have played all year. I think he thought he had a top 5 B10 squad that could make a NCAA run.
 

One thing with Gopher basketball I've noticed is that when I was growing up during the Randy Breuer era, I was sad when the players were graduating and moving on.

Since then it seems more and more that by the time the Seniors are Seniors, I'm not too sad about them moving on.
 






JimmyJamesMD said:
You thought at the end of the season, our two best players would be Oturu and Gabe K.?

I ain't raising my hand. I was optimistic about those two, but they play with skill, IQ, and aren't afraid of the big moment.

The future is bright with those two. Add in Carr and what I hope to be a healthy Curry, and Coffey, and thats a solid starting lineup for whoever the coach is.

That being said, I think these two frosh being the best players is more to do with the disappointment of the upperclassmen, namely Murphy, McBrayer, and Coffey.

I know Murphy gets accolades and is a great player. But on a top 15 team, he is the hustle player, not the star. He's not getting all of the post feeds he gets on the Gophers. He can bully his way into a double double every game. But when its crunch time, and he's playing against a good player/team, he doesn't have a go to move(s), and can't make the 15 footer, so he gets shut down.

McBrayer is also a big disappointment. Can't go right. Has never gone right. Will never go right. We really needed on this team that could create their own shot. McBrayer never developed into that player. I was expecting a big senior year from him. I know his head might not be in the right place, but just speaking the truth. We need more from a senior.

Coffey - was our best player. But teams have figured him out and now he is struggling. Just like dupress Can't go right. Has never gone right. Will never go right. That is unacceptable for our top ball handler. I hope Papa Coffey as happy that Amir got his fair shake at PG. Cant wait for that experiment to end. He cant create when the team needs him to, rarely sets up other teammates, and cant get a three off to save his life.

When my expectations were reasonably high this year, I was expecting really big years from these 3. JM and AC have had their moments, but they dont come up big when upperclassmen should. Dupree is lucky the roster is so bad or he wouldnt be playing very much.

Looking forward to the continued development Gabe and Dan O.

And shame on Pitino for literally having no bench. An injured Curry cant be your best bench player in your 6th season.
Click to expand...

Not raising my hand. Would have thought Murph and Coffee would be. Gabe and O came from great coaching and it showed. Great base of fundamentals.
 

Coffey suffers from playing PG. He is a spot shooter, rim runner, and slasher. Running the point prevents him from spot shooting and rim running. His game is suffering tremendously.

On the plus side, when he moves off the ball next year when Carr runs the show, I fully expect Coffey to have a career year as a senior.
 

I hope all these guys can see the school’s commitment to them, new facilities, and go out and get a good coach who can try to turn it around. Hopefully that will convince none to consider transferring.
 



I thought Oturu would average a double-double. I’m surprised he isn’t blocking more shots. I figured he’d be our 3rd best player behind Murphy and Coffey. Coffey being bad makes him our second best player. Sometimes best? I dunno.

Gabe has surprised me. Didn’t see him a ton in high school or on the circuits. His athleticism still surprises me because I thought that would be his downfall. So glad he is here.
 

Gabe and Daniel have surprised me, Gabe more than Daniel. I thought Gabe could be a solid role guy, but he's a solid starter at this level. If he can shoot great like he did today, he's a great shooter that basically takes nothing off the table because he isn't bad in any area. Very fundamentally sound player who can guard 3 positions though quick point guards understandably are a rough match up. Daniel seems to be coming on strong while most of the rest of the team has been shrinking in the moment. He mad some really big time moves late today and also hit a number of clutch free throws (with the notable exception of the last one). One underrated thing is the toughness he's shown fighting through his injury. I believe he's aggravated it in the last two games, yet come back to play in both of them.

I disagree that the future is bright though. Michigan and Michigan State are at the top of the conference. Maryland has a bunch of good young players and seems poised to stay in the top 4 conversation. Purdue is really good more often than not. You'd think 'Wisconsin would be trending down, but they keep finding a way. Illinois is clearly on the rise as they are returning everyone and Rutgers seems to be in a similar situation. I think Iowa returns everyone next year as well. Indiana and Ohio State recruit near the top of the conference most years and I'd bet on a bounce back season from at least one of them next year. Unless the Gophers land some impact guys this Spring, I can't imagine them being picked any higher than 10th or so in preseason predictions.
 

EG#9 said:
Gabe and Daniel have surprised me, Gabe more than Daniel. I thought Gabe could be a solid role guy, but he's a solid starter at this level. If he can shoot great like he did today, he's a great shooter that basically takes nothing off the table because he isn't bad in any area. Very fundamentally sound player who can guard 3 positions though quick point guards understandably are a rough match up. Daniel seems to be coming on strong while most of the rest of the team has been shrinking in the moment. He mad some really big time moves late today and also hit a number of clutch free throws (with the notable exception of the last one). One underrated thing is the toughness he's shown fighting through his injury. I believe he's aggravated it in the last two games, yet come back to play in both of them.

I disagree that the future is bright though. Michigan and Michigan State are at the top of the conference. Maryland has a bunch of good young players and seems poised to stay in the top 4 conversation. Purdue is really good more often than not. You'd think 'Wisconsin would be trending down, but they keep finding a way. Illinois is clearly on the rise as they are returning everyone and Rutgers seems to be in a similar situation. I think Iowa returns everyone next year as well. Indiana and Ohio State recruit near the top of the conference most years and I'd bet on a bounce back season from at least one of them next year. Unless the Gophers land some impact guys this Spring, I can't imagine them being picked any higher than 10th or so in preseason predictions.
Click to expand...

I thought we would be top 6 this year. Other teams were better than I gave them credit for and we underachieved as well. I do believe that we won't be worse next year. Bringing in 3 guards who can contribute will help a ton and will only have to do better than Pree, Stull, or IW (not hard) I love Murph, but I think Dan is better already. Curry will be better with an actually real summer. I see them in 4-8 range in the conference again, but it's been proven as I said earlier that I can be wrong.
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
McBrayer is also a big disappointment. Can't go right. Has never gone right. Will never go right. We really needed on this team that could create their own shot. McBrayer never developed into that player. I was expecting a big senior year from him. I know his head might not be in the right place, but just speaking the truth. We need more from a senior.
Click to expand...

McBrayer is basically the same player with the same limitations as when he got here, nothing changed in four years, low average 3-pt shooter, will make one occasionally but will never make a high percentage, no pullup jumper to speak of, he can't and I mean can't go to the basket with his right hand. Has he only practiced what he knows, is there no focus on a players individual skill set and what they need to do to improve. Is there no workout schedule tailored with drills that will help that player. The results make it seem helter skelter.

Some of it is on him but a lot is on Pitino.
 

EG#9 said:
Gabe and Daniel have surprised me, Gabe more than Daniel. I thought Gabe could be a solid role guy, but he's a solid starter at this level. If he can shoot great like he did today, he's a great shooter that basically takes nothing off the table because he isn't bad in any area. Very fundamentally sound player who can guard 3 positions though quick point guards understandably are a rough match up. Daniel seems to be coming on strong while most of the rest of the team has been shrinking in the moment. He mad some really big time moves late today and also hit a number of clutch free throws (with the notable exception of the last one). One underrated thing is the toughness he's shown fighting through his injury. I believe he's aggravated it in the last two games, yet come back to play in both of them.

I disagree that the future is bright though. Michigan and Michigan State are at the top of the conference. Maryland has a bunch of good young players and seems poised to stay in the top 4 conversation. Purdue is really good more often than not. You'd think 'Wisconsin would be trending down, but they keep finding a way. Illinois is clearly on the rise as they are returning everyone and Rutgers seems to be in a similar situation. I think Iowa returns everyone next year as well. Indiana and Ohio State recruit near the top of the conference most years and I'd bet on a bounce back season from at least one of them next year. Unless the Gophers land some impact guys this Spring, I can't imagine them being picked any higher than 10th or so in preseason predictions.
Click to expand...

It can be really hard to project forward in a league where most of the teams have about the same talent, give or take.
MSU and Michigan clearly, but beyond that, its really hard to say. Did you have IU sitting at 4-11 this year? Gophers could make a jump next year with returning players and variables working in their favor.
 

Block M said:
It can be really hard to project forward in a league where most of the teams have about the same talent, give or take.
MSU and Michigan clearly, but beyond that, its really hard to say. Did you have IU sitting at 4-11 this year? Gophers could make a jump next year with returning players and variables working in their favor.
Click to expand...

Not sure the talent will be more or less the same but one thing is not close and that is coaching. Bet UW finishes ahead of us.
 

EG#9 said:
Gabe and Daniel have surprised me, Gabe more than Daniel. I thought Gabe could be a solid role guy, but he's a solid starter at this level. If he can shoot great like he did today, he's a great shooter that basically takes nothing off the table because he isn't bad in any area. Very fundamentally sound player who can guard 3 positions though quick point guards understandably are a rough match up. Daniel seems to be coming on strong while most of the rest of the team has been shrinking in the moment. He mad some really big time moves late today and also hit a number of clutch free throws (with the notable exception of the last one). One underrated thing is the toughness he's shown fighting through his injury. I believe he's aggravated it in the last two games, yet come back to play in both of them.

I disagree that the future is bright though. Michigan and Michigan State are at the top of the conference. Maryland has a bunch of good young players and seems poised to stay in the top 4 conversation. Purdue is really good more often than not. You'd think 'Wisconsin would be trending down, but they keep finding a way. Illinois is clearly on the rise as they are returning everyone and Rutgers seems to be in a similar situation. I think Iowa returns everyone next year as well. Indiana and Ohio State recruit near the top of the conference most years and I'd bet on a bounce back season from at least one of them next year. Unless the Gophers land some impact guys this Spring, I can't imagine them being picked any higher than 10th or so in preseason predictions.
Click to expand...

Fernando and Smith of Maryland are both projected in the first round. I think that whoever is the coach has the opportunity to sell playing with Oturu, Kalscheur, Coffey and Carr- so perhaps that will help finish the roster.
 

The more I think about it, the more optimistic I am about next year.

Oturu and Gabe are returning and should theoretically only get better. Particularly Oturu as he gets stronger.

Carr should be a better PG than Coffey. Coffey should be better than Dupree, especially once he's not playing point guard.

PF is the only position that should get worse. Hopefully a new coach can come in and sell a decent recruit that the Gophers are a solid team that's one piece away from being one of the best in the Big 10.

Assuming they stay, Washington and Curry should be at least decent coming off the bench. If Omersa gets better he should be able to play a little bit and not do any harm. Hopefully the new coach can pick up a few other recruits who can be decent off the bench.

Of course there's a lot that could go wrong but with a good enough coach and recruiter, things could be much better next year.
 

Pitino has a few decent bench players who could come in one or two at a time and play several minutes, but that staff has no clue how or when or why to sub players.
 

Oturu / Kalscheur combo might just be better than the Coffey / Murphy combo ALREADY.

Crazy, but also sad as it's clear that Murphy and Coffey have both hit a wall developmental-wise. The most telling thing with Murphy/Coffey is that they don't have a very high basketball IQ. Kind of the same thing we are seeing with Wiggins stalling out in the NBA.
 


bga1 said:
Fernando and Smith of Maryland are both projected in the first round. I think that whoever is the coach has the opportunity to sell playing with Oturu, Kalscheur, Coffey and Carr- so perhaps that will help finish the roster.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure Smith will go. I see him projected as a 1st rounder only on NBAdraft.net and it's a low first round pick. He doesn't look ready to me. He needs to put on some size and muscle. I could see him going through the combine but deciding to return later.
 

No one really asked me, but I guess if Gabe and Daniel were highly sought after recruits, you expect something as freshman.

The highest level recruits have to perform as freshman otherwise they simply aren't that good, and guys who don't opt for NBA after a year or two really aren't NBA level talent.

If you are NBA caliber, (or close to it) you should be an upper end college player starting off as a freshman. The Fab Five showed this over 25 years ago.
 

EG#9 said:
Gabe and Daniel have surprised me, Gabe more than Daniel. I thought Gabe could be a solid role guy, but he's a solid starter at this level. If he can shoot great like he did today, he's a great shooter that basically takes nothing off the table because he isn't bad in any area. Very fundamentally sound player who can guard 3 positions though quick point guards understandably are a rough match up. Daniel seems to be coming on strong while most of the rest of the team has been shrinking in the moment. He mad some really big time moves late today and also hit a number of clutch free throws (with the notable exception of the last one). One underrated thing is the toughness he's shown fighting through his injury. I believe he's aggravated it in the last two games, yet come back to play in both of them.

I disagree that the future is bright though. Michigan and Michigan State are at the top of the conference. Maryland has a bunch of good young players and seems poised to stay in the top 4 conversation. Purdue is really good more often than not. You'd think 'Wisconsin would be trending down, but they keep finding a way. Illinois is clearly on the rise as they are returning everyone and Rutgers seems to be in a similar situation. I think Iowa returns everyone next year as well. Indiana and Ohio State recruit near the top of the conference most years and I'd bet on a bounce back season from at least one of them next year. Unless the Gophers land some impact guys this Spring, I can't imagine them being picked any higher than 10th or so in preseason predictions.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we're not going to magically jump in the B1G, but we have good core of guys. I think Oturu/Gab as seniors could do some damage if we get them help
 

manderson1984 said:
I see them in 4-8 range in the conference again, but it's been proven as I said earlier that I can be wrong.
Click to expand...

If you see them in the 4-8 range next year, then my guess is that you predicted them in the 4-8 range throughout Pitino's tenure. If that is the case, you were wrong in three of the past five years (we don't know about this year yet; Illinois could still move ahead of us). A little pessimism going into a season never hurts. If the season turns out well, you are pleasantly surprised. If it doesn't, then you just try to appreciate it as a rebuilding and development year.
 

Coffey worst shooting year of career same for Dupree...Murphy shooting worse this year than last 2 seasons...poor shooting team from line...with average shooting this team would be a lock for March madness
 

cjbfbp said:
When did Pitino ever have a bench (other than perhaps his first year)? It's been a chronic problem of his coaching tenure.
Click to expand...

I posted something about our bench a few months ago (right before Big Ten started) talking about how our bench was a total liability. To build upon comments back then, not much has changed.

Our bench is:
Curry - Solid player but injury is going to stick with him. He's lost explosiveness. No way can you count on him to be the starting 4 next year, I think his role moving forward in his career is what he is right now, a swing backup frontcourt player that can give you solid minutes.
IW - Absolute lock to transfer and I don't blame him, not a rip on him, just best for both sides. Will have moments here and there but has zero idea what is happening on the floor in regards to game situation. Needs to be somewhere where he's given the shot to basically just go and be with the ball the majority of the time, not trying to orchestrate an offense.
Hurt - Terrified to be on the floor. I don't care that he "makes good cuts" or "is a good teammate," he's simply afraid to be on the floor and to make a mistake.
Stull - I knew he was going to be out of shape but he's a chunk still 6 or so months into being here. Also, for being a shooter, he sure is afraid to actually shoot the ball.
Matz - I know he's 7'2" but good god is he uncoordinated. People talk about him playing decent minutes here and there? Probably only cause we watched Bakary and Gas for years. Has no business being on the floor at this level.
Omersa - Is basically a video game character where people are just pressing the jump button repeatedly for no reason.

Tell me where I was wrong?

Listen, all of our starters have flaws to their games, but the constant posts I've seen throughout the year over "why don't we try bench player X more?" has made me just lose it. These guys are all major liabilities each time they step on the floor, some don't get it, some are terrified to be on the floor, some are a total klutz, they provide zero value.

Unfortunately, we can't bench our starters when they are struggling because more times than not, it is a disaster waiting to happen each time one of these guys steps on the floor.

I'm not asking for much, but you need some remote production off the bench as our starters just aren't good enough to be given the free pass at all times.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom