PJ Fleck is better at Xs and Os than Jerry Kill and Matt Limegrover

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Is anyone going to hire PJ as a coordinator if he bombs out as a HC? Maybe? I’d argue probably not. Position coach/recruiting coordinator would probably be his forte. Go ahead and fight me.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Is anyone going to hire PJ as a coordinator if he bombs out as a HC? Maybe? I’d argue probably not. Position coach/recruiting coordinator would probably be his forte. Go ahead and fight me.
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DOnt think they’d hire him for either of the jobs you’d mentioned. Only chance he is an o coordinator is if a head coach calls plays. Probably don’t want to hire a guy as a recruiting coordinator who is probably only staying a few years.

If he is ever a college assistant it will probably be one of those “consultant” jobs that Alabama has 500 guys in. I guess his next non head coaching job is an NFL position coach of some sort.
 

Some guy said:
DOnt think they’d hire him for either of the jobs you’d mentioned. Only chance he is an o coordinator is if a head coach calls plays. Probably don’t want to hire a guy as a recruiting coordinator who is probably only staying a few years.

If he is ever a college assistant it will probably be one of those “consultant” jobs that Alabama has 500 guys in. I guess his next non head coaching job is an NFL position coach of some sort.
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College position coaches often are guys who maybe aren't the best position coaches but can croot.

Having said that even if PJ stuggles in MN, some lower level team will make him a HC for sure, his Western Michigan work still looks good on a resume.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
College position coaches often are guys who maybe aren't the best position coaches but can croot.

Having said that even if PJ stuggles in MN, some lower level team will make him a HC for sure, his Western Michigan work still looks good on a resume.
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Yeah I personally don’t think he will be a coordinator or college position coach. If he assists in college it’ll be as a consultant until he lands another head job or an NFL position coach job
 

HC and coordinators often times have different jobs? I thought this was a discussion on X and O.
 



Some guy said:
This is an elite comment that really added to the conversation.

Thanks for your contribution.
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Just pointing out the obvious, which you seem to miss on an awful lot for someone so strident.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Just pointing out the obvious, which you seem to miss on an awful lot for someone so strident.
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You are trying to say that in a discussion of X’s and O’s head coaches shouldn’t be mentioned because coordinators and head coaches have different jobs and I am the one missing the obvious?

Got it.
My bad.
You’re so smart
 

Some guy said:
You are trying to say that in a discussion of X’s and O’s head coaches shouldn’t be mentioned because coordinators and head coaches have different jobs and I am the one missing the obvious?

Got it.
My bad.
You’re so smart
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You are very passionate about who gets credit for Xs and Os. Passion is good, but I’m thinking if we dug deeper it might end in a tearful story. Wanna share?


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Spoofin said:
You are very passionate about who gets credit for Xs and Os. Passion is good, but I’m thinking if we dug deeper it might end in a tearful story. Wanna share?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Not that passionate. But there is a story.
Maybe I’ll tell you if you actually post an article or video where Fleck says he isn’t an X’s and O’s guy like you claim exists
 

Some guy said:
Not that passionate. But there is a story.
Maybe I’ll tell you if you actually post an article or video where Fleck says he isn’t an X’s and O’s guy like you claim exists
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Getting trolled by a couple of GH’s “finest”.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zxy_dScjsM

I seem to remember PJ saying something to the effect that he was that big of a X’s and O’s coach. I took it that he would rather spend his time on leading and motivating. As long as the Offense and Defense fit his plans, he let’s the coordinators run the details.


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alchemy2u said:
Getting trolled by a couple of GH’s “finest”.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zxy_dScjsM

I seem to remember PJ saying something to the effect that he was that big of a X’s and O’s coach. I took it that he would rather spend his time on leading and motivating. As long as the Offense and Defense fit his plans, he let’s the coordinators run the details.


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Oh my, a video about the Xs & Os of internet trolling.
 

More troll talk. Good stuff, but my impeccable YouTube-based research has shown the loudest “troll hunters” frequently dish out the unprovoked personal insults.



<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/TayI4SCiq0dJ6" width="480" height="480" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/TayI4SCiq0dJ6">via GIPHY</a></p>
 



Pompous Elitist said:
More troll talk. Good stuff, but my impeccable YouTube-based research has shown the loudest “troll hunters” frequently dish out the unprovoked personal insults.



<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/TayI4SCiq0dJ6" width="480" height="480" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/TayI4SCiq0dJ6">via GIPHY</a></p>
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On GH a troll is someone who you disagree with.


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I think if PJ had to walk out, he goes back to teaching and motivating kids as a high school teacher.

Troll. Troll. Troll. What a waste of time.
 


Again - so what if Fleck is not intimately involved with drawing up plays? If it works for Fleck and his staff, great for the Gophers.

Why does it matter whether Fleck is drawing up plays or not? what matters is the end result. If the staff has a system they are comfortable with, and if the coordinators do a good job, the head coach does NOT have to be an X's and O's guy. The key is whether the coach trusts his coordinators. That trust did not work out well with Smith on defense. Let's hope it works better with Rossi. But on offense, it seems clear (to me, at least) that Fleck has a high degree of trust and comfort with Kirk C.

Saying Fleck is not an X's and O's guy is NOT an attack on Fleck. It is NOT an insult or a slight.

There have been successful head coaches who were not X's and O's guys. And, there have been coaches who WERE X's and O's guys who went down in flames. It's not the system that matters, it's the execution.

The bottom line is whether this approach works for the Gophers.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Again - so what if Fleck is not intimately involved with drawing up plays? If it works for Fleck and his staff, great for the Gophers.

Why does it matter whether Fleck is drawing up plays or not? what matters is the end result. If the staff has a system they are comfortable with, and if the coordinators do a good job, the head coach does NOT have to be an X's and O's guy. The key is whether the coach trusts his coordinators. That trust did not work out well with Smith on defense. Let's hope it works better with Rossi. But on offense, it seems clear (to me, at least) that Fleck has a high degree of trust and comfort with Kirk C.

Saying Fleck is not an X's and O's guy is NOT an attack on Fleck. It is NOT an insult or a slight.

There have been successful head coaches who were not X's and O's guys. And, there have been coaches who WERE X's and O's guys who went down in flames. It's not the system that matters, it's the execution.

The bottom line is whether this approach works for the Gophers.
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All of what you said is true.
None of what you said was being discussed.



We have a couple of posters in this thread who accuse me of believing in some vast anti-PJ fleck conspiracy when in reality they might like Fleck more than I do.

I am merely stating that just because 3 guys on a message board say PJ Fleck said something doesn’t mean he said it. He never said he wasn’t an x’s And o’s guy. Saying he doesn’t focus on X’s and O’s as much and let’s his coaches is not close to the same thing as saying he isn’t an X’s and O’s guy.

A couple of posters think it means the same thing so they think posting proof of him saying one thing is the same as posting proof of him saying something completely different.


It’s fine though. Spoofin is a good guy
 

Some guy said:
All of what you said is true.
None of what you said was being discussed.



We have a couple of posters in this thread who accuse me of believing in some vast anti-PJ fleck conspiracy when in reality they might like Fleck more than I do.

I am merely stating that just because 3 guys on a message board say PJ Fleck said something doesn’t mean he said it. He never said he wasn’t an x’s And o’s guy. Saying he doesn’t focus on X’s and O’s as much and let’s his coaches is not close to the same thing as saying he isn’t an X’s and O’s guy.

A couple of posters think it means the same thing so they think posting proof of him saying one thing is the same as posting proof of him saying something completely different.


It’s fine though. Spoofin is a good guy
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Not true (except the last part). I don’t think those examples are the same thing. I think PJ said exactly that “I’m not an Xs and Os Guy”. I suspect he probably is, but as you said, that isn’t the debate here. Nor is it whether or not that approach can work (seems like it can for him). Multiple (more than 3) people over multiple boards (check out the WMU board) and multiple years (long before he was at MN) remember him saying it and have stated so - so yeah, I do think you believe in a conspiracy at this point. Not sure of another logical explanation???

I also found a TDG article where the writer says, “fans and media shouldn’t take PJ at his word that he doesn’t know Xs and Os”, but it didn’t provide an exact quote from PJ nor did it use the exact quote you crave so we will just add TDG to the conspiracy group. We all meet the 2nd Friday of each month if you are interested.


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Some guy said:
All of what you said is true.
None of what you said was being discussed.



We have a couple of posters in this thread who accuse me of believing in some vast anti-PJ fleck conspiracy when in reality they might like Fleck more than I do.

I am merely stating that just because 3 guys on a message board say PJ Fleck said something doesn’t mean he said it. He never said he wasn’t an x’s And o’s guy. Saying he doesn’t focus on X’s and O’s as much and let’s his coaches is not close to the same thing as saying he isn’t an X’s and O’s guy.

A couple of posters think it means the same thing so they think posting proof of him saying one thing is the same as posting proof of him saying something completely different.


It’s fine though. Spoofin is a good guy
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The point of my post was - without calling out people by name - to point out the utter ridiculousness and meaninglessness of the stupid personal pi**ing match that this thread turned into.

I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong.
 

I think Fleck deals with x and o's about the same that Bud Grant did. Grant did fine as a head coach and believe that Fleck will be fine as well.
 

Spoofin said:
Not true (except the last part). I don’t think those examples are the same thing. I think PJ said exactly that “I’m not an Xs and Os Guy”. I suspect he probably is, but as you said, that isn’t the debate here. Nor is it whether or not that approach can work (seems like it can for him). Multiple (more than 3) people over multiple boards (check out the WMU board) and multiple years (long before he was at MN) remember him saying it and have stated so - so yeah, I do think you believe in a conspiracy at this point. Not sure of another logical explanation???

I also found a TDG article where the writer says, “fans and media shouldn’t take PJ at his word that he doesn’t know Xs and Os”, but it didn’t provide an exact quote from PJ nor did it use the exact quote you crave so we will just add TDG to the conspiracy group. We all meet the 2nd Friday of each month if you are interested.


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So again, you can’t find a direct quote

Which if he has said it as often as alleged spanning a decade, shouldn’t be hard to find.

Yet it doesn’t exist
 

short ornery norwegian said:
The point of my post was - without calling out people by name - to point out the utter ridiculousness and meaninglessness of the stupid personal pi**ing match that this thread turned into.

I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong.
Click to expand...


You know you have the option to not read the thread right?


Are you being forced against your will to read the thread?
 

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