PJ Fleck is better at Xs and Os than Jerry Kill and Matt Limegrover

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Pompous Elitist said:
Since you’re smart you understand football consists of more than offense. You probably also understand Kirk is running the offense, not PJ.
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Disagree.
Conceptually they are using stuff that is very different than the OC was using when he was Co- OC of Rutgers.
Using similar stuff to what they started using at W Michigan together.

I’d say they both probably have had an impact on the offensive general strategy.
Obviously playcaller gets more credit on a play to play basis
 

everybody knows my name said:
Settle down, PJ's Bobo.

Nobody says that PJ doesn't "pay attention" to Xs & Os, nor that he doesn't know anything about it. He has said (I remember hearing him say it) that he's not primarily an X/O guy, and I didn't take it to mean that he's ignorant of how football works, or that he's just drifting in the ozone, with no idea what his coaches are doing.

I understood him to mean that his coaching success won't be built on micromanaging the tactical side of the game, but on other things - things like high-level management, recruiting talent, inspiring the troops, repeating trademarked catchphrases, etc.
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Literally people in this thread have made the assertion that he isn’t an X’s and O’s Guy knowing full well what it implies

I’m not talking about you.


Don’t know why I’m a PJ Bobo.
I’m on the record not liking Fleck very much.
 

Some guy said:
Disagree.
Conceptually they are using stuff that is very different than the OC was using when he was Co- OC of Rutgers.
Using similar stuff to what they started using at W Michigan together.

I’d say they both probably have had an impact on the offensive general strategy.
Obviously playcaller gets more credit on a play to play basis
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I'm curious how this is even a compliment to PJ? Kill and Limegrover proved nothing to me that said they were innovative or good x's and o's guys. Limegrover's offenses at the end were terrible. Football is tough, you can have the best play calls in the world, but if you don't have the players it won't matter.
 

manderson1984 said:
I'm curious how this is even a compliment to PJ? Kill and Limegrover proved nothing to me that said they were innovative or good x's and o's guys. Limegrover's offenses at the end were terrible. Football is tough, you can have the best play calls in the world, but if you don't have the players it won't matter.
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Kirk Ciarrocca said "If I don't think that guy can make that play, there's no point in me calling that play."

IIRC he said that when talking about this play, that he thought they could make so he called it: http://www.espn.com/videohub/video/clip/_/id/25094340/categoryid/clip?id=25658838


Edit: God damn ESPN is terrible with their audio and announcing. The crowd went crazy with that play and you'd think from the video they were just mildly entertained...
 

Some guy said:
Literally people in this thread have made the assertion that he isn’t an X’s and O’s Guy knowing full well what it implies

I’m not talking about you.


Don’t know why I’m a PJ Bobo.
I’m on the record not liking Fleck very much.
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I don't believe anyone implied that PJ is clueless about X&Os; you just inferred it. That's a common form of miscommunication.

As far as why you're a PJ Bobo - I call em the way I see em. Maybe your motivation isn't to prop PJ up, but that's the way it looks (to me).
 


scools12 said:
Pretty much the same can be said for everyone single one of your posts.


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Your grammar shows you went to a good scool


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Some guy said:
I’d like to congratulate you on totally buying Fleck’s coach speak
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So there are times when we’re not supposed to believe what PJ says? I didn’t think that was allowed?[emoji12][emoji848]


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everybody knows my name said:
I don't believe anyone implied that PJ is clueless about X&Os; you just inferred it. That's a common form of miscommunication.

As far as why you're a PJ Bobo - I call em the way I see em. Maybe your motivation isn't to prop PJ up, but that's the way it looks (to me).
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I didn’t infer it.
Spoofin inferred it then claimed he never inferred it but it was certifiable fact that I should look up.
 

manderson1984 said:
I'm curious how this is even a compliment to PJ? Kill and Limegrover proved nothing to me that said they were innovative or good x's and o's guys. Limegrover's offenses at the end were terrible. Football is tough, you can have the best play calls in the world, but if you don't have the players it won't matter.
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Never said it was a compliment.
I just was saying it was my opinion.


Isn’t that what a message board is for?
 

Some guy said:
I didn’t infer it.
Spoofin inferred it then claimed he never inferred it but it was certifiable fact that I should look up.
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What exactly did I infer? Please, look it up.

Face The Facts said:
We've been told on this forum by wise posters that PJ himself is not an X's and O's guy.
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Spoofin said:
Actually, PJ himself has said that.
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So who is the one lying now? I didn't infer anything of what that meant or that he was clueless. As I have already stated in this thread, to you, I simply corrected FtF who said it was "wise posters" who said it. I reminded him PJ said it. You called me a liar. Other posters said they remembered it and so now what you are fighting for is "what was implied." Kind of sad.

As I have said, I don't remember where I heard it and I'm not going through a bunch of press conference transcripts from 2017 to find it. Enough people on here have already stated they recall it too. I did a quick GopherHole search on the term "I'm not an X's and O's guy" and found no less than (6) threads that discussed this comment - none of which someone was accused of making it up. My personal favorite was from 11/29/2016 when BemijiGopher commented on it in the "PJ Fleck to Purdue" thread --- amazing that he was making up this lie before PJ was even hired by the U (way ahead of me)....

bemidjigopher said:
If he goes to Purdue, he'll be a flop. He admits to not being an X's and O's guy, his act works in the MAC where you can win with slightly better athletes. Actually have to be able to coach at a place like Purdue. Not going to out do the big boys for the Jimmy's and joes the same way you can out do the eastern and central Michigan's. They'll be looking for a new guy in four years, but he will provide some entertaining PJism's. For PJ to do well, he needs to go somewhere that will shell out money for top coordinators. If he's stays another year at Western, he can get a Texas A&M type of job where they will do that. Purdue lacks the facilities and the commitment for a guy like PJ Fleck to do well
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If you are keeping track - that is now (3) statements I have stated on here, where I was told I was making it up, yet have been proven true today alone. A good day for Spoofin and for honesty!
 

Just did an online search and came up with this from LSU fanboard, when they thought Fleck might become their coach.
Oct 13, 2016
Which kind of Offense and defense does he run?

pro style...his mentors are tressel and kill.

truth be told, he's not an x's and o's guy...he lets his coaches coach. he runs the program, motivates, recruits, sets the energy level, etc. very similar to coach eaux on that front.
 



GFBfan said:
Just did an online search and came up with this from LSU fanboard, when they thought Fleck might become their coach.
Oct 13, 2016
Which kind of Offense and defense does he run?

pro style...his mentors are tressel and kill.

truth be told, he's not an x's and o's guy...he lets his coaches coach. he runs the program, motivates, recruits, sets the energy level, etc. very similar to coach eaux on that front.
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You're so desperate to prove that Fleck isn't an X's and O's guy that you searched the LSU message board and came up with a random poster's thoughts from 2.5 years ago???

Find a hobby dude...
 

Spoofin said:
What exactly did I infer? Please, look it up.





So who is the one lying now? I didn't infer anything of what that meant or that he was clueless. As I have already stated in this thread, to you, I simply corrected FtF who said it was "wise posters" who said it. I reminded him PJ said it. You called me a liar. Other posters said they remembered it and so now what you are fighting for is "what was implied." Kind of sad.

As I have said, I don't remember where I heard it and I'm not going through a bunch of press conference transcripts from 2017 to find it. Enough people on here have already stated they recall it too. I did a quick GopherHole search on the term "I'm not an X's and O's guy" and found no less than (6) threads that discussed this comment - none of which someone was accused of making it up. My personal favorite was from 11/29/2016 when BemijiGopher commented on it in the "PJ Fleck to Purdue" thread --- amazing that he was making up this lie before PJ was even hired by the U (way ahead of me)....



If you are keeping track - that is now (3) statements I have stated on here, where I was told I was making it up, yet have been proven true today alone. A good day for Spoofin and for honesty!
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I’ll assume you’re smart enough to know what you infer.


I can’t prove a negative (that he never said something)
You could pretty easily prove he did say he isn’t an X’s and O’s Guy.

I’ll wait
 

John Galt said:
You're so desperate to prove that Fleck isn't an X's and O's guy that you searched the LSU message board and came up with a random poster's thoughts from 2.5 years ago???

Find a hobby dude...
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Didn't search their fan board. I did a 1 min. Google search for the words not an x's and o's guy and that was one of the first things that came up.
I posted it to show that it wasn't made up sh!t by anyone about PJ not being an x's and o's guy as others on this thread have said. People wanted proof.
I had some time so thought I would do a quick search. There was also the same exact type of post on an Oregon board, when they were thought to be
PJ's landing spot. So why would both those two boards have the same thought on PJ prior to him coming here, if it wasn't something that was out there?

Below is an article, that also came from my quick search, from SI that states exactly what other on here have been saying, but you fail to recognize. It doesn't mean he doesn't know things about the Off. or Def. he just leaves more of that to his coordinators, while he focuses on motivation and other things. As a HC it's a good way to go if you have trust in your coordinators.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2015/09/24/western-michigans-pj-fleck-ushering-new-coaching-style?utm_source=emailshare&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email-share-article&utm_content=20190226
The night also offered a showcase for the unconventional Fleck, whose three-year tenure in Kalamazoo has evolved into the laboratory for college football's most fascinating coaching sociology experiment. Fleck wears cleats to practice, fancies himself more of a motivator than an X's-and-O's savant and has endured criticism for everything from putting a DJ booth in Waldo Stadium to a using a cache of catchphrases so expansive it has created a language—Bronconese.
 

Some guy said:
Biggest difference I see is the creation of easy throws.

Liedner never had easy throws. Felt bad for him.
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Kill had wide receivers that should have been playing for Carleton. We were awful at receiver and QB. And played like it all the time.

Fleck has legit wideouts and decent QB play.
 

Sparlimb said:
Kill had wide receivers that should have been playing for Carleton. We were awful at receiver and QB. And played like it all the time.

Fleck has legit wideouts and decent QB play.
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Better WR's no doubt.

But at the same time, and I liked Mitch.... he could miss an open guy at a critical time here or there... or miss an easy dump off pass that he should have checked down to. Mitch didn't get as many options maybe with open guys, but he didn't hit the open guys often enough either.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Better WR's no doubt.

But at the same time, and I liked Mitch.... he could miss an open guy at a critical time here or there... or miss an easy dump off pass that he should have checked down to. Mitch didn't get as many options maybe with open guys, but he didn't hit the open guys often enough either.
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Mitch's career stats put him arguably top 5 all time for gopher QBs. He had a bad tendency to play poorly in big games or at key moments though so I think that distorts people's perceptions of his overall play.

I also think he was forced to play while injured a lot because of lack of depth at the position.

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Word said:
Mitch's career stats put him arguably top 5 all time for gopher QBs. He had a bad tendency to play poorly in big games or at key moments though so I think that distorts people's perceptions of his overall play.

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Like I said, I like Mitch.... it's just that if you talk about open guys ... I think of situations where he had open guys :(
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Like I said, I like Mitch.... it's just that if you talk about open guys ... I think of situations where he had open guys :(
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Yet if you look up his completion percentage it's right up there with the other top 5 gopher QB's. It's just weird how people don't remember all of Weber's big misses, but for some reason they do for Leidner. Maybe because Leidner was on winning teams so the mistakes seemed bigger???
 

Some guy said:
I’ll assume you’re smart enough to know what you infer.


I can’t prove a negative (that he never said something)
You could pretty easily prove he did say he isn’t an X’s and O’s Guy.

I’ll wait
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You inferred. I’ve already proven I did no such thing. It is important to follow along in a conversation if you are going to participate.

Pretty sure I just did prove PJ has said that as well. Not sure what else you want? Unless multiple people have been lying since before he was even our coach. Seems pretty likely.


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Word said:
Mitch's career stats put him arguably top 5 all time for gopher QBs. He had a bad tendency to play poorly in big games or at key moments though so I think that distorts people's perceptions of his overall play.

I also think he was forced to play while injured a lot because of lack of depth at the position.

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I think the fact that he seemed to turn the ball over against Wisconsin more than against anyone else also adds to the perception of Mitch. Still remember having a lead second half and he threw into the end zone and some Wisconsin DB had a gift and the momentum changed just like that. Think he had two after that one when we could have had a 10 or 14 point lead going into the last quarter.

Good guy who gave it his all and didn't deserve the vitriol on this board.
 

Spoofin said:
You inferred. I’ve already proven I did no such thing. It is important to follow along in a conversation if you are going to participate.

Pretty sure I just did prove PJ has said that as well. Not sure what else you want? Unless multiple people have been lying since before he was even our coach. Seems pretty likely.


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You showed PJ fleck saying he isn’t an X’s and O’s guy in this thread? Which post number. I’ll look again.
 

Mulligan said:
I think the fact that he seemed to turn the ball over against Wisconsin more than against anyone else also adds to the perception of Mitch. Still remember having a lead second half and he threw into the end zone and some Wisconsin DB had a gift and the momentum changed just like that. Think he had two after that one when we could have had a 10 or 14 point lead going into the last quarter.

Good guy who gave it his all and didn't deserve the vitriol on this board.
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Agree with all that. He had a really bad game vs. Wisc in his last year. A complete meltdown in the second half.
I'll also add Todd McShay saying he was a 1st round prospect heading into his senior year did him no favors either.

He made some big time throws on occasion, just not enough of them. The victory in Lincoln was one where he dropped in some great throws, like the one to KJ for a big first down on the drive that got us the late lead. But it gets forgotten because of the play by BBC to seal(steal) that victory.
 

Some guy said:
You showed PJ fleck saying he isn’t an X’s and O’s guy in this thread? Which post number. I’ll look again.
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There are a few in this thread alone that have told you they remember hearing PJ say that. As I mentioned above (#72) in a quick GH search yesterday I found no less than (6) other posters that also recalled him saying this in the previous times this topic has been discussed on this board - including one post that I posted above (#72) from someone who recalls him saying it while at WMU - posted on here before he was even out coach.

At this point you can either accept that he has said that or you can conclude that there is a multi-person / multi-year conspiracy to make people believe that for no personal gain. Keep in mind, however, that if you pick the latter you will have officially reached GWG levels of denial.


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Spoofin said:
There are a few in this thread alone that have told you they remember hearing PJ say that. As I mentioned above (#72) in a quick GH search yesterday I found no less than (6) other posters that also recalled him saying this in the previous times this topic has been discussed on this board - including one post that I posted above (#72) from someone who recalls him saying it while at WMU - posted on here before he was even out coach.

At this point you can either accept that he has said that or you can conclude that there is a multi-person / multi-year conspiracy to make people believe that for no personal gain. Keep in mind, however, that if you pick the latter you will have officially reached GWG levels of denial.


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Some people are modest about their abilities.


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Spoofin said:
There are a few in this thread alone that have told you they remember hearing PJ say that. As I mentioned above (#72) in a quick GH search yesterday I found no less than (6) other posters that also recalled him saying this in the previous times this topic has been discussed on this board - including one post that I posted above (#72) from someone who recalls him saying it while at WMU - posted on here before he was even out coach.

At this point you can either accept that he has said that or you can conclude that there is a multi-person / multi-year conspiracy to make people believe that for no personal gain. Keep in mind, however, that if you pick the latter you will have officially reached GWG levels of denial.


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Saying you are more of a motivator than an X’s and O’s savant is not close to saying you aren’t an X’s and O’s guy.


I figured out the difference in our opinion. It’s that you think he said something he didn’t say. Even in your posted “proof” he said it he doesn’t say it.
 

Some guy said:
Saying you are more of a motivator than an X’s and O’s savant is not close to saying you aren’t an X’s and O’s guy.


I figured out the difference in our opinion. It’s that you think he said something he didn’t say. Even in your posted “proof” he said it he doesn’t say it.
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So you chose the latter.


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Spoofin said:
So you chose the latter.


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Lol

Again I’m on board 100% if you post some proof he said it.

If not believing Three guys on a message board qualifies as believing in conspiracy theories. Guilty as charged.
 

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