PJ Fleck is better at Xs and Os than Jerry Kill and Matt Limegrover

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While the defense has been concerning under Fleck. There is no doubt in my mind the offensive coaching and player development has been better in the past two years. Including the debacle that was the post Nebraska year 1 games.


For the record, Tracy Claeys and Sawvell > Robb Smith
 

Uh-oh, now you’re asking for it!
 

The obvious question is based on what? Statistically they are below Kill/Claeys in virtually every category despite having arguably more talented players at certain spots.

You could be right, PJ has hopefully struck gold with Rossi and the offense is improving under Kirk. Next year should be an inflection point for this regime. It’s going to be fun.
 

I don’t think PJ is an X’s and O’s guy and I believe he has said this IIRC. He lets the assistants handle that. You could say Ciarrocca is a better X’s and O’s guy than Kill or Limegrover though.


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I don't think too many people here would argue that Ciarocca is worse than Limegrover. Offense was the biggest problem with Kill's/Claey's teams.
 


Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the OP is correct. (altho, to be consistent, it should say Fleck and Ciarrocca are better than Kill and Limegrover)

What does it mean for the future of the program?

How many more wins does it potentially translate too?

does the improvement in offense outweigh any issues on defense - and were those issues solved with Smith's ouster?

In short, does this thread accomplish any purpose?
 


scools12 said:
Pretty much the same can be said for everyone single one of your posts.


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Bad take here. You might want to take this one back. I value Shorts posts.
 

scools12 said:
Pretty much the same can be said for everyone single one of your posts.


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I like SONs posts.


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Are we going to start listing every OC that is better than Limegrover was? This is going to be a long thread.


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#2Gopher said:
Bad take here. You might want to take this one back. I value Shorts posts.
Click to expand...

The posts for the most part consist of this then that or if that then this.

If you like it so be it but I don’t have to take anything back.


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Spoofin said:
Are we going to start listing every OC that is better than Limegrover was? This is going to be a long thread.


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Being better than Limegrover is an awfully low bar. Like hurdling a shoe box
 




UpAndUnder43 said:
Being better than Limegrover is an awfully low bar. Like hurdling a shoe box
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I think you meant chalk line. Seriously the worst college passing offense design I have seen in the post-Wishbone era.
 

I like how Fleck burns his timeouts early in each half...
 


Offense has been better. Defense has been worse. Say what you want about claeys but his defensive adjustments at half were always really solid.
 

I don't know about PJ but Ciarrocca certainly has the first offense in a long time that seems to have teeth.


For the first time in years some of those late games last year the crowd seemed excited to see what the offense would do next .... but clearly believed they could do something next / close the door / save the game.
 
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We've been told on this forum by wise posters that PJ himself is not an X's and O's guy. From that we know this can't be true.

To even question it we would need to compare his offensive rankings compared to other teams in the Big Ten (and not nationally) to ensure they are actually better.
 



Ciarrocca had a great interview that looked like it was in a hallway or something after the Indiana game (I think it was Indiana). It was amusing because as fans we fret over offensive strategy and make it seem so complex sometimes Ciarrocca's explanation was hilariously casual and "well i saw their defense and we called the play and it didn't work so we called it again". It was a bit more than that but just amusing in the sense that it boiled down to just calling the play a couple times until it worked. That's the amazing mastermind that has our Offense looking the best it has in years.
 

Face The Facts said:
We've been told on this forum by wise posters that PJ himself is not an X's and O's guy. From that we know this can't be true.

To even question it we would need to compare his offensive rankings compared to other teams in the Big Ten (and not nationally) to ensure they are actually better.
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Actually, PJ himself has said that. MLive even wrote an article about it when he was at WMU: https://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2016/12/western_michigan_offensivedefe.html
 

XMan said:
Offense has been better. Defense has been worse. Say what you want about claeys but his defensive adjustments at half were always really solid.
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Offense looks like it has the potential to blow the doors off anything we had during the Kill/Limegrover years. Defense to this point has been worse however if those final 4 games are any indication of the future the defense may quickly reach the levels they did under Claeys and Sawvel.

The combination of both those things would lead to something truly special around here.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
The obvious question is based on what? Statistically they are below Kill/Claeys in virtually every category despite having arguably more talented players at certain spots.

You could be right, PJ has hopefully struck gold with Rossi and the offense is improving under Kirk. Next year should be an inflection point for this regime. It’s going to be fun.
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Based largely on watching the games.
 

die hard gopher said:
I don’t think PJ is an X’s and O’s guy and I believe he has said this IIRC. He lets the assistants handle that. You could say Ciarrocca is a better X’s and O’s guy than Kill or Limegrover though.


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I’d like to congratulate you on totally buying Fleck’s coach speak
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the OP is correct. (altho, to be consistent, it should say Fleck and Ciarrocca are better than Kill and Limegrover)

What does it mean for the future of the program?

How many more wins does it potentially translate too?

does the improvement in offense outweigh any issues on defense - and were those issues solved with Smith's ouster?

In short, does this thread accomplish any purpose?
Click to expand...
Well, we are talking football which is different for this board.


Biggest difference I see is the creation of easy throws.

Liedner never had easy throws. Felt bad for him.


Defense will tell the tale of this regime. Offense is going to be above average.
 


Spoofin said:
Are we going to start listing every OC that is better than Limegrover was? This is going to be a long thread.




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Not all.

Just gopher OCs
 

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