Borzi: Maybe Minnesota just isn’t a basketball school

BleedGopher

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per Borzi:

More than twelve years ago, Dan Monson was forced out as men’s basketball coach at the University of Minnesota because athletic director Joel Maturi thought someone else could do better.

Maturi appeared right at first. But ultimately, he was wrong.

Almost six years ago, athletic director Norwood Teague fired Tubby Smith because he, too, thought someone else could do better.

Teague was wrong. Spectacularly.

Now, U athletic director Mark Coyle has a decision to make about Richard Pitino, whose sixth season plods along. Thursday night’s 69-60 loss to No. 7 Michigan at Williams Arena, a game the Wolverines dominated until the final minutes, didn’t help Minnesota’s borderline NCAA Tournament chances. The flustered Gophers shot poorly, defended badly and trailed by 21 points in the second half while falling to 17-10 overall and 7-9 in Big Ten Conference play. That left the Gophers in danger of missing the NCAAs for the second consecutive season and fifth time in Pitino’s tenure.

How many coaches have to cycle through here before Minnesota officials acknowledge what should have been obvious a long time ago: Middle-of-the-pack Big Ten finishes, with an occasional NCAA Tournament appearance, are the best Gopher fans can hope for. Fawning exposure from the Big Ten Network and ESPN hasn’t made Minnesota a basketball destination. And the handful of Minnesota prep standouts good to enough to play anywhere depart happily for Duke or another name school.

It comes down to one thing: The Gophers’ failure to consistently qualify for NCAA Tournament. It’s happened only five times since 2000 — once under Monson, three times under Smith, and once under Pitino. Recruits considering Minnesota risk going their entire college career without making the Big Dance. That’s too big a negative. The new practice facility puts the Gophers on equal ground with most programs, but NCAA appearances matter more than plush lounges and 24-hour key cards.

If Monson, who took unheralded Gonzaga to the Elite Eight before coming to Dinkytown, and Smith, who led Kentucky to one national title and ten NCAA Tournament appearances in ten seasons, couldn’t win enough here, who can? Monson inherited NCAA-imposed scholarship reductions and recruiting limits from the Clem Haskins-era academic scandal and helped restore the program’s credibility. He’s still coaching at Long Beach State, where he enjoyed modest success post-Minnesota, winning three Big West Conference titles with one NCAA bid.

For all the carping about Smith’s age and energy level, his tenure here shines a lot better in hindsight: Five 20-win seasons out of six, with three NCAA Tournament appearances and another in National Invitation Tournament. Smith proved you could succeed here without cheating, and his last season was his best, but that didn’t stop Teague from thinking he could upgrade.

That’s why Coyle should stick with Pitino a while longer, unless — and only unless — former Timberwolves player and front office executive Fred Hoiberg shows interest. Even then, Coyle should tread carefully. Hoiberg, the former Iowa State and Chicago Bulls coach, must agree to stay five years and not chase the next NBA coaching vacancy. And the U must let in junior college kids similar to those Hoiberg recruited to Iowa State, kids that quickly lifted Cyclones back to national prominence.

Otherwise, Pitino should be given the chance for more growth. His recruiting has been spotty. Rugged senior forward Jordan Murphy proved the perfect Minnesota recruit, a three-star high school talent from Texas with a five-star work ethic who made himself into one of the Big Ten’s best players. Junior swingman Amir Coffey, probably Pitino’s best home state recruit, improved as well. The development of Coffey and another Minnesotan, freshman center Daniel Oturu, show Pitino and his staff can teach. That’s critical.
But Pitino has yet to land as impactful a player from the New York metro, his home recruiting base, as Murphy, Coffey or Oturu. Greater New York produces fewer top players than it used to, and losing assistant coach Kimani Young to UConn last summer diminished Pitino’s efforts there. With Chicago product Rob Jeter, a former assistant to Ryan at Wisconsin, replacing Young, expect the Gophers to tilt more heavily toward Chicagoland — a smarter call in the long run.

Coyle, like Teague, is a basketball guy. He worked at Kentucky and Syracuse, both rich in basketball tradition, and it doesn’t take much to get him going on college basketball history. The Pitino legacy resonates with him. I’ve never sensed any lack of support or respect for Pitino, though Coyle undoubtedly compiled a list of potential replacements in case Pitino suddenly leaves. It’s hard to imagine Coyle firing Pitino, or Pitino landing a better job with his resume. But stranger things have happened. Just check the Gopher women’s basketball sideline.

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2019/02/maybe-minnesota-just-isnt-a-basketball-school/

Go Gophers!!
 

It isn't

But I think it can be

I'll never accept just give up, you stink as answer
 


I'll never understand the timing on these columns. The Gophers lost to one of the top teams in the country by 8 last night, time to to assess whether the program can ever truly be great.
 

if we were on a 10 game winning streak and lost something like this would be posted as well
 


Amen.

That's loser talk people who say or accept that.

I wouldn't advocate for having that attitude either, but it is hard to argue with any of the specifics mentioned in the article.

I made this point in another thread too, but it is really hard to make a sustained leap to excellence in college sports. Tanking games in the hopes of getting more ping pong balls and spending money via free agency doesn't apply here. Lower division teams often remain lower division teams. How many examples do we even see of college basketball programs coming from the depths to sustained excellence? Gonzaga for sure. I would tip my hat to Wisconsin too in that regard. Others?
 

College bball is all about the coach, if you have a good coach you have a good program. that simple.
 

History has proven that this column is largely correct. To field a consistent winner at Minnesota is not easy. Not impossible, but not easy.

If there is a coaching change odds are better than not that the new coach will regress to the mean of the program.
 

History has proven that this column is largely correct. To field a consistent winner at Minnesota is not easy. Not impossible, but not easy.

If there is a coaching change odds are better than not that the new coach will regress to the mean of the program.

The one we have now is below the mean.
 



I was really angry reading this column, and then I caught myself. I shouldn't be angry I should feel sorry for "Borzi" because one of two things is true:

1. "Borzi" simply isn't intelligent enough to research a topic he knows little about, form a "take", and write about it in an informed matter.

or

2. "Borzi" has so little pride that he's willing to attach his name to a published piece that is this poorly researched and doesn't care that it exposes him as someone who knows almost nothing about the topic he's been assigned to write about.
 

Weak article. 30 games under .500. We can't do any better. Woe is us.
 

I wouldn't advocate for having that attitude either, but it is hard to argue with any of the specifics mentioned in the article.

I made this point in another thread too, but it is really hard to make a sustained leap to excellence in college sports. Tanking games in the hopes of getting more ping pong balls and spending money via free agency doesn't apply here. Lower division teams often remain lower division teams. How many examples do we even see of college basketball programs coming from the depths to sustained excellence? Gonzaga for sure. I would tip my hat to Wisconsin too in that regard. Others?

Here's a few.
Arizona-Lute Olson
Creighton-Dana Altman
Boston U-Rick Pitino (to a lesser extent)
Charlotte-Bill Foster/Lee Rose
Texas El Paso-Don Haskins
Stephen F Austin-Danny Kaspar
Arkansas, Oklahoma State-Eddie Sutton
Baylor-Scott Drew
UCLA-John Wooden
Uconn-Jim Calhoun
Colorado-Tad Boyle (to a lesser extent)
Marquette-Al McQuire
Pittsburgh-Ray Chipman/Paul Evans
\Oklahoma-Billy Tubbs
Georgetown-John Thompson
Seton Hall-PJ Carlesimo
South Carolina-Frank McQuire
DePaul-Ray Meyer

I got tired of looking.
 




Borzi is a typical modern sports writer. He gives data, but no context, therefore he is able to twist a skewed perspective and say he spoke truth. It's like those who create statistics that are technically accurate, but are used in a way that portrays a false image.
Borzi does the same thing with this article. Ignorant people will believe him.
 

Should the Gophers fail to make the tournament and Pitino is let go, be prepared to see many talking heads absolve Pitino of all responsibility in the Gophers lack of success during his tenure. Just like this article, there will be a narrative of "Minnesota is an impossible place to win" and "it's unreasonable for Gopher fans to expect better." This is probably just the first of many.
 

Should the Gophers fail to make the tournament and Pitino is let go, be prepared to see many talking heads absolve Pitino of all responsibility in the Gophers lack of success during his tenure. Just like this article, there will be a narrative of "Minnesota is an impossible place to win" and "it's unreasonable for Gopher fans to expect better." This is probably just the first of many.

I do not expect he will be let go but if he is what will they say if the new guy is 30 games over by year 6 !
 

What is a "basketball school"? I guess I think of the blue bloods (Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, ???) and teams like Gonzaga. Then there are the high performing basketball conferences that have D2 football programs (Big East, A10).

Otherwise.....what a dumba$$ article.
 

For some i think it means the schools that have achieved a significantly higher level of success in one sport over the other. Indiana is a basketball school, Clemson is a football school, Alabama a football school, Duke a basketball school, USC a football school. Some schools are both, some are neither.
 

I'll never understand the timing on these columns. The Gophers lost to one of the top teams in the country by 8 last night, time to to assess whether the program can ever truly be great.

It's not one game. It's a 6 year tenure and we're coming toward the end of the 6th year.
 

For some i think it means the schools that have achieved a significantly higher level of success in one sport over the other. Indiana is a basketball school, Clemson is a football school, Alabama a football school, Duke a basketball school, USC a football school. Some schools are both, some are neither.

Yes, and right now Indiana is neither. Only 4 NCAA tournaments in the last 11 years (counting this year). That's the same number over the same years as the Gophers. Granted, Indiana did do better in those appearances. The only thing that can make Indiana seem like a basketball school right now is the school's really pathetic performance in football.
 

What is a "basketball school"? I guess I think of the blue bloods (Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, ???) and teams like Gonzaga. Then there are the high performing basketball conferences that have D2 football programs (Big East, A10).

Otherwise.....what a dumba$$ article.


Actually, I think the schools that play football in those conferences play in D1 FSC (U Mass of the A10 plays D1 FBS but they're newly arrived and terrible). Villanova actually has been a pretty successful D1 FSC programl in some recent years.
 

Actually, I think the schools that play football in those conferences play in D1 FSC (U Mass of the A10 plays D1 FBS but they're newly arrived and terrible). Villanova actually has been a pretty successful D1 FSC programl in some recent years.
Right. D1 FCS. I just meant that they weren't FBS.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

Yes, and right now Indiana is neither. Only 4 NCAA tournaments in the last 11 years (counting this year). That's the same number over the same years as the Gophers. Granted, Indiana did do better in those appearances. The only thing that can make Indiana seem like a basketball school right now is the school's really pathetic performance in football.

When Bob Knight was let go, Indiana has been wildly inconsistent for such a storied program.
 

I’m in my 60s and have rarely thought of the U as a basketball school, or a football school. There was that one year when I thought it was a golf school.


Add: definitely a volleyball school
 

I’m in my 60s and have rarely thought of the U as a basketball school, or a football school. There was that one year when I thought it was a golf school.


Add: definitely a volleyball school

I have thought of the U as a hockey school.
 

Minnesota isnt a basketball or football school. It doesnt mean you just stop.

One thing I think Minnesota does have going for it right now, is it's highschool program, which seems to be pumping out a lot of top end college recruits. Become a competitive team, and get these kids to stay. Its not just about the Tre/Tyus/Hurt/Trent/etc of the highschool bunch...but there's so many of the 2nd tier in state talent now that seem to go on to have nice college careers. Pitino has been doing a nice job of getting some of those kids to stay, like Coffey, Oturu, Kalscheur, etc...but if the talent level in state stays the same for the next few years, we need to start seeing more of the 2nd tier players, like Reuvers, Sims, Macura, and yes, even Davison.
 

Here's a few.
Arizona-Lute Olson
Creighton-Dana Altman
Boston U-Rick Pitino (to a lesser extent)
Charlotte-Bill Foster/Lee Rose
Texas El Paso-Don Haskins
Stephen F Austin-Danny Kaspar
Arkansas, Oklahoma State-Eddie Sutton
Baylor-Scott Drew
UCLA-John Wooden
Uconn-Jim Calhoun
Colorado-Tad Boyle (to a lesser extent)
Marquette-Al McQuire
Pittsburgh-Ray Chipman/Paul Evans
\Oklahoma-Billy Tubbs
Georgetown-John Thompson
Seton Hall-PJ Carlesimo
South Carolina-Frank McQuire
DePaul-Ray Meyer

I got tired of looking.

I would put Chris Beard at Texas Tech in this category now. He is turning TT into a force, at first it was mostly Tubby’s guys, now his. And it was a dumpster fire after Pat Knight/Billy Gillespie fiasco.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Minnesota isnt a basketball or football school. It doesnt mean you just stop.

One thing I think Minnesota does have going for it right now, is it's highschool program, which seems to be pumping out a lot of top end college recruits. Become a competitive team, and get these kids to stay. Its not just about the Tre/Tyus/Hurt/Trent/etc of the highschool bunch...but there's so many of the 2nd tier in state talent now that seem to go on to have nice college careers. Pitino has been doing a nice job of getting some of those kids to stay, like Coffey, Oturu, Kalscheur, etc...but if the talent level in state stays the same for the next few years, we need to start seeing more of the 2nd tier players, like Reuvers, Sims, Macura, and yes, even Davison.

I look at Wisco, and wonder why the Gophers cant be a top 25 team this year?
It's certainly not talent.

Reuvers had 7 blocks against us, Davison (despite being a supreme jerk-off) would make this team better.

Why let them go to wisco?

some want to leave, blah blah blah, poor excuses for poor recruiting.

Macura would have helped this team, Sims would prob start for the next few with Curry's injuries adding up.

Lets go recruit NY though, it's worked well!!
 

Here's a few.
Arizona-Lute Olson
Creighton-Dana Altman
Boston U-Rick Pitino (to a lesser extent)
Charlotte-Bill Foster/Lee Rose
Texas El Paso-Don Haskins
Stephen F Austin-Danny Kaspar
Arkansas, Oklahoma State-Eddie Sutton
Baylor-Scott Drew
UCLA-John Wooden
Uconn-Jim Calhoun
Colorado-Tad Boyle (to a lesser extent)
Marquette-Al McQuire
Pittsburgh-Ray Chipman/Paul Evans
\Oklahoma-Billy Tubbs
Georgetown-John Thompson
Seton Hall-PJ Carlesimo
South Carolina-Frank McQuire
DePaul-Ray Meyer

I got tired of looking.
How many of these are currently relevant? Been in the top 25 for more than one week each season in the last 5 years?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

(Full post edited for brevity)

Lets go recruit NY though, it's worked well!!

Why recruit NYC?

1. We want to be another "cool" B1G school.
2. We are following B1G marketing plan of extending the reach of the B1G Conference to the big media markets on the East Coast.
3. Our administration and faculty believe we can best serve the state of Minnesota by effecting social change outside Minnesota.

Genius, ugh.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 




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