Coaching Candidates

You really think there are only 15-20 jobs better than MN? Watch stadium put up a great series where coaches ranked jobs. MN got 10th out 14 in the big ten alone. This is my point exactly, I think MN can be turned into a better job, but it's not as enviable as many think it is. I think if they ranked the top jobs in the country, MN would not be in the top 50 right now. Top 75, yes easily. Those rankings are fluid of course, but there are some things that just are not thought of highly by others.

https://watchstadium.com/news/big-ten-basketball-coaches-rank-the-best-jobs-in-the-conference-10-11-2018/

I think you have to differentiate between jobs that are slightly better than Minnesota, and jobs that are so much better that you leave behind the success and job security you have hypothetically earned at Minnesota to possibly do a rebuild at another school. If a coach, say, went to the tournament 3 straight years here and gets a Sweet Sixteen appearance or two, would you be worried that he'd leave for a job like NC State or Oklahoma or Oregon or something? Those are probably better jobs, but maybe not so much better that you'd willingly uproot your family and leave Minnesota for them.

As someone else noted, Big Ten basketball coaches do not frequently leave their jobs without retiring or getting fired. I think Ed DeChellis leaving Penn State for Navy was the last time it happened, and even that one might have been more of a "get out ahead of the firing squad" type of departure. I'm pretty sure Bill Self leaving Illinois for Kansas was the last time a coach left the Big Ten for a definite upgrade.

Money is an interesting angle though. I don't pay much attention to how money different schools from different conferences bring in from TV contracts, but I thought I heard the reason Purdue was able to pay Jeff Brohm 6 million a year now is because of the BTN money. Would be be able to outbid other, more attractive power conference basketball schools for a coach? Is this something we would not have been able to do when Pitino was hired?
 

There are 15-20 that I'd say are for sure better. Six from the B1G.

Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke, UCLA, Kansas, Indiana, Louisville, Syracuse, Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan St, Maryland, Purdue, Florida, and Texas.
That's 15.

Add any 5 you want to that list and then think if there are any others where you would say: If a coach went from the Minnesota job a job at this school most college basketball fans would see it as a promotion.

Can't think of many beyond the ones I listed that would be considered a promotion.

I'd add Arizona, and maybe UConn, Gonzaga, Villanova, Georgetown. Villanova is obviously in a better spot than us right now, thought I thought I had seen Jay Wright's name get tossed around here when we hired Tubby. UConn I'm unsure about now that they aren't in a major conference anymore. Not sure if Gonzaga is just Mark Few's baby and will fall back to being just an above average mid-major when he's gone.
 

I think you have to differentiate between jobs that are slightly better than Minnesota, and jobs that are so much better that you leave behind the success and job security you have hypothetically earned at Minnesota to possibly do a rebuild at another school. If a coach, say, went to the tournament 3 straight years here and gets a Sweet Sixteen appearance or two, would you be worried that he'd leave for a job like NC State or Oklahoma or Oregon or something? Those are probably better jobs, but maybe not so much better that you'd willingly uproot your family and leave Minnesota for them.

As someone else noted, Big Ten basketball coaches do not frequently leave their jobs without retiring or getting fired. I think Ed DeChellis leaving Penn State for Navy was the last time it happened, and even that one might have been more of a "get out ahead of the firing squad" type of departure. I'm pretty sure Bill Self leaving Illinois for Kansas was the last time a coach left the Big Ten for a definite upgrade.

Money is an interesting angle though. I don't pay much attention to how money different schools from different conferences bring in from TV contracts, but I thought I heard the reason Purdue was able to pay Jeff Brohm 6 million a year now is because of the BTN money. Would be be able to outbid other, more attractive power conference basketball schools for a coach? Is this something we would not have been able to do when Pitino was hired?

Yes. If we wanted to. But there is no excuse for losing a good coach that already works for us due to money. Unless of course some school like Texas throws stupid money at him/her.

Revenue Sharing Per School (FY 2018)
1. Big Ten -- $51M
2. SEC -- $43M
3. Big 12 -- $36.5M
4. Pac 12 -- $32M
5. ACC -- $28M

The ACC will likely go up a good amount once they launch their network in August, but it's not projected to make up the gap. Pac 12 has had some major instability. Their network is not producing nearly as much as they hoped.
 

I'd add Arizona, and maybe UConn, Gonzaga, Villanova, Georgetown. Villanova is obviously in a better spot than us right now, thought I thought I had seen Jay Wright's name get tossed around here when we hired Tubby. UConn I'm unsure about now that they aren't in a major conference anymore. Not sure if Gonzaga is just Mark Few's baby and will fall back to being just an above average mid-major when he's gone.

Arizona was one I thought about. Could see adding that and possibly Oklahoma and Villanova. (I think Nova could be debated sue to the athletic department revenue piece, but let's include it anyways.) That would put it at 18 that are definitely above us.

Not sure about UConn or Georgetown. They certainly have been more successful programs than us in the past. But UConn isn't even in a major conference. And neither of them generate athletic revenues that are even close to ours. Not that revenues and conferences are the end all be all, but they are certainly a factor. Those are the type of jobs where I think it would depend on the coach. Coaches who have built their careers on the East Coast would say those are better jobs. Coaches in the Midwest would probably prefer Minnesota.

Same with Gonzaga. No doubt they have been more successful over the past couple of decades or so. But they are in a mid-major conference, and don't have anywhere near the athletic revenues we do.
 
Last edited:

Cincinnati. Xavier. Butler. Marquette. Nova. Oklahoma. UCLA. Arizona. Gonzaga.
 


Yes. If we wanted to. But there is no excuse for losing a good coach that already works for us due to money. Unless of course some school like Texas throws stupid money at him/her.

Revenue Sharing Per School (FY 2018)
1. Big Ten -- $51M
2. SEC -- $43M
3. Big 12 -- $36.5M
4. Pac 12 -- $32M
5. ACC -- $28M

The ACC will likely go up a good amount once they launch their network in August, but it's not projected to make up the gap. Pac 12 has had some major instability. Their network is not producing nearly as much as they hoped.

Have you factored in the shoe and apparel money ? What about the blow it out of the water endowment difference. That number is in the billions of dollars difference.
 

I'd add Arizona, and maybe UConn, Gonzaga, Villanova, Georgetown. Villanova is obviously in a better spot than us right now, thought I thought I had seen Jay Wright's name get tossed around here when we hired Tubby. UConn I'm unsure about now that they aren't in a major conference anymore. Not sure if Gonzaga is just Mark Few's baby and will fall back to being just an above average mid-major when he's gone.

I added 27 names to the list. My sons firm ranks them as a matter of doing business with existing coaches and prospective coaches. You actually left out UW, UVA, Notre Dame, Purdue, Oregon and that was just for starters. What criteria did you use ? Have you toured the other facilities, looked at their recruiting region, national brand, prestige of school, history ?
 

You're selling ourselves short. Minnesota is a great job for a basketball coach. There's a solid and continual pipeline of instate talent, no nearby University that you need to complete with for those recruits (or for fans), low to medium expectations from the fans, we've got nice facilities, and a lousy NBA team (with an awful stadium to watch those NBA games -- I really don't like Target Center for BB), plus a good home court advantage (playing in the barn has gotta be different than your "typical" university floor). That's a lot of plus that doesn't exist in what most would call the top schools. Instate recruits, patient fans, not much instate competition, and good facilities. Sure, you'd have a better chance of winning a national championship at Duke, and yes that alone his a big deal to a top coach, but you'll also have a huge chance of getting run out of town if you don't make it to the final four. The above is basically the reasons PJ gave for coming to MN (except the Vikings are actually decent). I think he could have landed in what others would say is a much higher spot than us if he wanted.
 
Last edited:

I added 27 names to the list. My sons firm ranks them as a matter of doing business with existing coaches and prospective coaches. You actually left out UW, UVA, Notre Dame, Purdue, Oregon and that was just for starters. What criteria did you use ? Have you toured the other facilities, looked at their recruiting region, national brand, prestige of school, history ?

Purdue was on my initial list.

I thought about Notre Dame and Oregon as well. Oregon might qualify due to Phil Knight and facilities. Still think that’s a bit of a stretch. I just don’t think UVA or UW are much different from ours in terms of budget, facilities, or resources. I’m not looking at it in terms of how good the programs are right now, because I think that’s a relatively small factor.

Would love to see a list of the other 27. And again, I’m talking jobs that would be universally accepted as better than ours. To me there isn’t a big difference between the 25th best job and the 45th best job, at least not universally. Once you get outside the blue bloods it really comes down more to personal preference.
 
Last edited:



Have you factored in the shoe and apparel money ? What about the blow it out of the water endowment difference. That number is in the billions of dollars difference.

Shoe and apparel money differs greatly by school. But obviously the blue bloods do the best in that category. There isn’t going to be much of a difference between a shoe/apparel deal for say Arkansas or Washington vs for Minnesota. At least not when you consider the scale of an athletic budget of $120M+

I don’t really see how endowments matter in terms of the quality of a basketball coaching job, but if they do then the U of M has nothing to worry about. We have a Top 30 endowment, and it’s top 20 if you remove the Ivy League schools and schools that don’t have D1 basketball.
 

Shoe and apparel money differs greatly by school. But obviously the blue bloods do the best in that category. There isn’t going to be much of a difference between a shoe/apparel deal for say Arkansas or Washington vs for Minnesota. At least not when you consider the scale of an athletic budget of $120M+

I don’t really see how endowments matter in terms of the quality of a basketball coaching job, but if they do then the U of M has nothing to worry about. We have a Top 30 endowment, and it’s top 20 if you remove the Ivy League schools and schools that don’t have D1 basketball.

Every coach or AD that i know think of the UW job and especially the UVA job to be far better. The endowments matter especially in how they reflect the level of capable donors. At UVA they cash out new facilities, here they are in debt service. It is a far bigger national brand in a better climate, recruiting region and a more prestigous school and in the nations best basketball conference. Have you been to these schools you left out, have you talked to non gopher fans to get a unbiased opinion. If you think it is a near top 15 job then Pitino has done even worse then i thought and we should be able to attract a top 15 coach no problem.
 

Every coach or AD that i know think of the UW job and especially the UVA job to be far better. The endowments matter especially in how they reflect the level of capable donors. At UVA they cash out new facilities, here they are in debt service. It is a far bigger national brand in a better climate, recruiting region and a more prestigous school and in the nations best basketball conference. Have you been to these schools you left out, have you talked to non gopher fans to get a unbiased opinion. If you think it is a near top 15 job then Pitino has done even worse then i thought and we should be able to attract a top 15 coach no problem.

I want Built on the search committee. He knows his schitt. No more bad hires!
 

I want Built on the search committee. He knows his schitt. No more bad hires!

Been part of them before, just not here. The critical piece is the AD. We have a really good AD. The problem has been that we have had some of the worse AD's i have ever met. Retired nowjust time for tons of basketball and golf. Coyle may ride it out with Pitino with a good end and give this staff time as it is the best staff we have had.
 



Been part of them before, just not here. The critical piece is the AD. We have a really good AD. The problem has been that we have had some of the worse AD's i have ever met. Retired nowjust time for tons of basketball and golf. Coyle may ride it out with Pitino with a good end and give this staff time as it is the best staff we have had.

I see little reason for optimism of Richard being successful here. Even last night's game- NW didn't show up; we had our best player have a career night- that should of been a 25 pt. blow out win with us emptying our bench with 5 minutes left. Instead, we play low IQ ball the last 10 minutes and let them get within 10. Really disheartening.
 

I see little reason for optimism of Richard being successful here. Even last night's game- NW didn't show up; we had our best player have a career night- that should of been a 25 pt. blow out win with us emptying our bench with 5 minutes left. Instead, we play low IQ ball the last 10 minutes and let them get within 10. Really disheartening.

I see many of the things your talking about and the record shows how poorly all of it has been put together. Still. i do see better defense and would never discount Pitino winning more time. The question for me is can he win a conference title, like actual season long excellence . And will we ever have a identity that is known nationally.
 

I see many of the things your talking about and the record shows how poorly all of it has been put together. Still. i do see better defense and would never discount Pitino winning more time. The question for me is can he win a conference title, like actual season long excellence . And will we ever have a identity that is known nationally.

The way I'd put it is this: one of the names on the list in that tweet i posted is Mike Davis. Now, finally, after all these years of experience and development, he's finally becoming a legit candidate for a job like, say, in a major conference. He wasn't ready when he was handed such a job years ago, and he'll tell you that. In fact, i think I've heard him say that himself exactly.
 

Been part of them before, just not here. The critical piece is the AD. We have a really good AD. The problem has been that we have had some of the worse AD's i have ever met. Retired nowjust time for tons of basketball and golf. Coyle may ride it out with Pitino with a good end and give this staff time as it is the best staff we have had.

Agreed on this being his best staff. It's what led me to be overly optimistic this season. Jeters value will show the more he's around.
 

You're selling ourselves short. Minnesota is a great job for a basketball coach. There's a solid and continual pipeline of instate talent, no nearby University that you need to complete with for those recruits (or for fans), low to medium expectations from the fans, we've got nice facilities, and a lousy NBA team (with an awful stadium to watch those NBA games -- I really don't like Target Center for BB), plus a good home court advantage (playing in the barn has gotta be different than your "typical" university floor). That's a lot of plus that doesn't exist in what most would call the top schools. Instate recruits, patient fans, not much instate competition, and good facilities.

If other top schools don't have those things then are they really that valuable? Plus we have decent in state talent, but it's still in the bottom 2/3s nationally. I also think the lack of another D1 school in state seems to have made us complacent. Our facilities are getting better. The barn is only nostalgic and thought of by most as a dump.
 

I see little reason for optimism of Richard being successful here. Even last night's game- NW didn't show up; we had our best player have a career night- that should of been a 25 pt. blow out win with us emptying our bench with 5 minutes left. Instead, we play low IQ ball the last 10 minutes and let them get within 10. Really disheartening.

Completely agree with this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



He'll be the hot name of the hour, but would he be able to land the 2020 talent that Pitino has already built relationships with?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Can Pitino land the 2020 talent he has built relationships with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Agreed on this being his best staff. It's what led me to be overly optimistic this season. Jeters value will show the more he's around.

Can Jeters run the program?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



Low blow. You will have plenty more years to take shots at Richard, hope you think you are funny.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That's a legitimate question to ask about any coach; it's far from a low blow.

And as far as guys like Craig Smith, they're definitely worth watching to see if they can build and sustain. He's done what one person remarked as an "incredible" job there in his first year, but so did Richard in his one year at FIU.
 

Low blow. You will have plenty more years to take shots at Richard, hope you think you are funny.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not a low blow, just stating it how I see it. I have praised him when i saw it fit, i have defended him on how he handled IW, improved defense, better staff and when others disagree we do not engage in name calling but a healthy discourse of takes or ideas. When someone blasts him for IW i listen to the take to perhaps learn. We all have posters we disagree with, no big deal. If mine bother you, why read them ? I read yours to try and understand a different point of view. The only humor i see is not in my posts, it is in the wonder of fans different opinions. Hell, there are people who think that 39-69 is pretty good especially in light of how hard the job is, injuries, learning on the fly and then i see what others have done elsewhere facing all the same non self inflicted barriers and see how much better the competition has done. I have done this with my own life to see what i could learn and improve myself, my business and the two intersected with basketball for 50 years. Sharing what i see.
 


I kind of wonder if Roy Williams will call it quits after this year with his health issues. The domino effect could be interesting.
 

That's a legitimate question to ask about any coach; it's far from a low blow.

And as far as guys like Craig Smith, they're definitely worth watching to see if they can build and sustain. He's done what one person remarked as an "incredible" job there in his first year, but so did Richard in his one year at FIU.

I like Smith a lot, he's probably my second choice right now behind Oats. He also did a good job turning around the University of South Dakota in 3 seasons, so it's more than just a 1 year thing. He was also a longtime Tim Miles assistant and is originally from MN.
 




Top Bottom