Reusse on Fleck's recruiting: "His recruiting is OK so far."

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Then answer my question on why the 2016 season was more than 'ok' and why the current class ranking is not?
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I'm not even sure where you are going with this. Each post you make is more outlandish than the last. Do you realize you still haven't even answered my question that started this exchange - but rather deflected, asked me questions, implied statements had been said that had not, tried to start another PJ vs Kill/TC, debate etc. - and when I do answer your questions even that isn't good enough as you then demand explanations for my opinions.

Again, I hate rankings. I think our classes could end up being great - I hope they do - but their ranking (5th in West, 42nd overall - or whatever it is now) is just OK. No other way to slice it. Again, I don't care what the rankings are, no one should, and that isn't any slight on your precious coach's efforts (something else you falsely implied -- I am seeing a trend).

Now, please keep in mind that the 2016 team finished better than 5th in the West and even if there are 42 other teams that finished with 9 or more wins - that doesn't mean the Gophers were 42nd. In fact, only 26 teams finished with 10 or more that year so if we were just looking at records alone wouldn't it be more accurate (not to suggest that is ever your goal) to say we finished tied for 27th? So 4<5 and 27<42. How am I doing? However, none of that matters, as when I say the Gophers 2016 season was better than OK I am not basing it on those mathematical certainties - but rather on the fact that it happened. I saw it. I watched every game. I went to many home games. I traveled to an away game. I was invested in the season and I formed an opinion on that season. Unfortunately, I didn't take notes on how exactly I formed my opinion - is that something you typically do?
 

Spoofin said:
I'm not even sure where you are going with this. Each post you make is more outlandish than the last. Do you realize you still haven't even answered my question that started this exchange - but rather deflected, asked me questions, implied statements had been said that had not, tried to start another PJ vs Kill/TC, debate etc. - and when I do answer your questions even that isn't good enough as you then demand explanations for my opinions.

Again, I hate rankings. I think our classes could end up being great - I hope they do - but their ranking (5th in West, 42nd overall - or whatever it is now) is just OK. No other way to slice it. Again, I don't care what the rankings are, no one should, and that isn't any slight on your precious coach's efforts (something else you falsely implied -- I am seeing a trend).

Now, please keep in mind that the 2016 team finished better than 5th in the West and even if there are 42 other teams that finished with 9 or more wins - that doesn't mean the Gophers were 42nd. In fact, only 26 teams finished with 10 or more that year so if we were just looking at records alone wouldn't it be more accurate (not to suggest that is ever your goal) to say we finished tied for 27th? So 4<5 and 27<42. How am I doing? However, none of that matters, as when I say the Gophers 2016 season was better than OK I am not basing it on those mathematical certainties - but rather on the fact that it happened. I saw it. I watched every game. I went to many home games. I traveled to an away game. I was invested in the season and I formed an opinion on that season. Unfortunately, I didn't take notes on how exactly I formed my opinion - is that something you typically do?
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Except I did answer your question. You're the one who keeps deflecting.

As usual your attempt at data analysis and quantifying anything is pathetic. So 4th in the B1G West is better than ok and 5th is just ok?

What about last year when we finished 2nd in the B1G West in recruiting? Was that good, or was that just ok? Wouldn't that have to be factored into the overall analysis considering Fleck has only had 2 full recruiting classes?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Except I did answer your question.
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Nope. Still haven't. Just deflected again.
GopherWeatherGuy said:
You're the one who keeps deflecting.
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Nope. More misinformation. I have answered every question you asked - what on earth would I be deflecting.
GopherWeatherGuy said:
As usual your attempt at data analysis and quantifying anything is pathetic.
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Nope. I used the exact data points you asked me to analyze. More misinformation.
GopherWeatherGuy said:
So 4th in the B1G West is better than ok and 5th is just ok?
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Nope. Never said that. In fact I said it didn't matter and that isn't what I was saying. Bad reading comprehension, or just more misinformation?

Maybe you should concentrate more on telling us how you are impartial when it comes to PJ. That was priceless. I honestly think you may need professional help.
 

Spoofin said:
Nope. Still haven't. Just deflected again.

Nope. More misinformation. I have answered every question you asked - what on earth would I be deflecting.

Nope. I used the exact data points you asked me to analyze. More misinformation.

Nope. Never said that. In fact I said it didn't matter and that isn't what I was saying. Bad reading comprehension, or just more misinformation?

Maybe you should concentrate more on telling us how you are impartial when it comes to PJ. That was priceless. I honestly think you may need professional help.
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What misinformation did I spread? Not one thing I said was untrue. Talk about reading comprehension...

But let's try to make sense of your logic by what you've posted:

You don't believe in recruiting rankings, but Fleck's recruiting classes are just 'ok' based on them. 2016 was a better than 'ok' season because you watched it. Yet you can't comprehend how dumb that sounds. Sad really...
 
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Spoofin said:
Nope. Still haven't. Just deflected again.

Nope. More misinformation. I have answered every question you asked - what on earth would I be deflecting.

Nope. I used the exact data points you asked me to analyze. More misinformation.

Nope. Never said that. In fact I said it didn't matter and that isn't what I was saying. Bad reading comprehension, or just more misinformation?

Maybe you should concentrate more on telling us how you are impartial when it comes to PJ. That was priceless. I honestly think you may need professional help.
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We’re all impressed. No one tries harder every day to denigrate the current coach than you. Did PJ run over your dog with his car?
 


John Galt said:
We’re all impressed. No one tries harder every day to denigrate the current coach than you. Did PJ run over your dog with his car?
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That’s a great line with zero substance. I have not said anything to denigrate PJ here, but carry on. It sounds really good.


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short ornery norwegian said:
Jeez people - still ignoring the real question.

Fleck's recruiting is better than the Kill/Claeys era. no one disputes that. BUT - is the current level of recruiting good enough for the Gophers to move up the ranks and become a contender in the B1G west?

It's like saying a $40,000 salary is better than a $30,000 salary. that is undisputed. But, the guy making $40,000 still can't afford to buy the same house as the guy making $75,000.

So, you have two choices - either learn to be happy with the house you've got - or figure out a way to make more money so you can get a better house. you can be happy you've moved up from a mobile home to a 1-story, 2BR house. but don't pretend it's equal to a 2-story, 4 BR house.

a recruiting class ranked at #42 is not going to have the Gophers playing for the B1G title. So, either learn to be happy with 7, 8, 9 wins a year until the end of time - or figure out a way to get that recruiting class into the top-25. that's it.
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Wisconsin, Iowa, and NW all recruit classes worse or similar to this one and compete in the B1G West. Only Nebraska consistently recruits quite a bit better than this, yet they haven't been a competitor post Pelini.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
What misinformation did I spread? Not one thing I said was untrue. Talk about reading comprehension...
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Already covered. You will continue to ignore, pivot, deflect, etc. because, well, because that is what you do, have always done, and will continue to do.

GopherWeatherGuy said:
But let's try to make sense of your logic by what you've posted:

You don't believe in recruiting rankings, but Fleck's recruiting classes are just 'ok' based on them.
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Yep. You are doing better.

GopherWeatherGuy said:
2016 was a better than 'ok' season because you watched it. Yet you can't comprehend how dumb that sounds. Sad really...
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Well, you’re misrepresenting again, “because you watched it”. Not even a good effort. I followed a team and sport for months, watched every game that team played - many in person - and then formed an opinion about that team/season I just followed for months. You are right, I don’t comprehend “just how dumb that sounds”.

You are so Transparent. Honestly, I feel bad for you sometimes.


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Spoofin said:
I'm not even sure where you are going with this. Each post you make is more outlandish than the last. Do you realize you still haven't even answered my question that started this exchange - but rather deflected, asked me questions, implied statements had been said that had not, tried to start another PJ vs Kill/TC, debate etc. - and when I do answer your questions even that isn't good enough as you then demand explanations for my opinions.

Again, I hate rankings. I think our classes could end up being great - I hope they do - but their ranking (5th in West, 42nd overall - or whatever it is now) is just OK. No other way to slice it. Again, I don't care what the rankings are, no one should, and that isn't any slight on your precious coach's efforts (something else you falsely implied -- I am seeing a trend).

Now, please keep in mind that the 2016 team finished better than 5th in the West and even if there are 42 other teams that finished with 9 or more wins - that doesn't mean the Gophers were 42nd. In fact, only 26 teams finished with 10 or more that year so if we were just looking at records alone wouldn't it be more accurate (not to suggest that is ever your goal) to say we finished tied for 27th? So 4<5 and 27<42. How am I doing? However, none of that matters, as when I say the Gophers 2016 season was better than OK I am not basing it on those mathematical certainties - but rather on the fact that it happened. I saw it. I watched every game. I went to many home games. I traveled to an away game. I was invested in the season and I formed an opinion on that season. Unfortunately, I didn't take notes on how exactly I formed my opinion - is that something you typically do?
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The 2016 team was okay. Their signature win heading into the bowl game that year was against a 6-6 Northwestern team that had to win it's last game of the year to become bowl eligible. Some people keep talking about that team like it was the greatest Gopher team of all time. Sure they won 9 games, but it was against the easiest schedule the Gophers will ever play against.
 



ethomasp31 said:
The 2016 team was okay. Their signature win heading into the bowl game that year was against a 6-6 Northwestern team that had to win it's last game of the year to become bowl eligible. Some people keep talking about that team like it was the greatest Gopher team of all time. Sure they won 9 games, but it was against the easiest schedule the Gophers will ever play against.
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I respectfully disagree. I don’t think it was great, but certainly better than OK.


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Spoofin said:
I respectfully disagree. I don’t think it was great, but certainly better than OK.


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Agree with that.
I don’t think it was anything special. But it was a top 5 post 1990 season. Probably top 4
 

Spoofin said:
I respectfully disagree. I don’t think it was great, but certainly better than OK.


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Like on a scale of 1-100, 2016 was like a 70, maybe 75 tops, right?

2002 and 2003 I would put in the 80's.

2014 could be in the 80's as well had they won their bowl game.
 

ethomasp31 said:
The 2016 team was okay. Their signature win heading into the bowl game that year was against a 6-6 Northwestern team that had to win it's last game of the year to become bowl eligible. Some people keep talking about that team like it was the greatest Gopher team of all time. Sure they won 9 games, but it was against the easiest schedule the Gophers will ever play against.
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It was an easier schedule than we have this year, I remember going into that season thinking 10 or 11 were real possibilities... Our schedule is harder this year, but still lines up in in a way that with the way the boys played at the end of last year... 10ish sounds quite possible to me this year.
 



PoockItInfor6 said:
It was an easier schedule than we have this year, I remember going into that season thinking 10 or 11 were real possibilities... Our schedule is harder this year, but still lines up in in a way that with the way the boys played at the end of last year... 10ish sounds quite possible to me this year.
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Expectations were really high that year and they didn't meet them. Still had a lot of wins, but it was a hard team to cheer for with all of the issues that went on with that team that year. It really over-shadowed what could have been a great season. If they beat Penn St, beat WI, and stay out of the news, that probably would have been our best season in 40 years.
 

I thought this was a recruiting thread? I keep hoping fresh exciting guys like Brewster or Fleck will have such amazing personalities that they will set all recruited players' hearts a-flutter and nab top 5 classes. I should probably get over that. Fleck appears to be a guy that can win a lot of recruiting battles but his (as well as any other coach's) recruiting success will depend as much on wins/losses as it does his personality. Hopefully the Gophers will reach the promise most of us are seeing in them in these next couple years and these 40ish classes will climb into 20ish classes and beyond.
 

PoockItInfor6 said:
It was an easier schedule than we have this year, I remember going into that season thinking 10 or 11 were real possibilities... Our schedule is harder this year, but still lines up in in a way that with the way the boys played at the end of last year... 10ish sounds quite possible to me this year.
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How is our schedule harder this year than in 2016?

Our Big Ten schedule is exactly the same as 2016, as far as opponents are concerned: we play our West Division competitors plus Rutgers, Maryland and Penn State from the East. In 2016 we played Penn State and Maryland on the road, this season we'll be playing them at TCF.

Are you saying the non conference schedule was easier in 2016?
 

RememberMurray said:
How is our schedule harder this year than in 2016?

Our Big Ten schedule is exactly the same as 2016, as far as opponents are concerned: we play our West Division competitors plus Rutgers, Maryland and Penn State from the East. In 2016 we played Penn State and Maryland on the road, this season we'll be playing them at TCF.

Are you saying the non conference schedule was easier in 2016?
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Correct me if I’m wrong but in 2016 didn’t the Gophers still have four non conference opponents?
 


WorkingMyTailOff said:
Correct me if I’m wrong but in 2016 didn’t the Gophers still have four non conference opponents?
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If you count the bowl game, yes...nine B1G games, only four at home. On the road at Penn St, Neb, Wisconsin. 2019 is more favorable than 2016.
 



RememberMurray said:
How is our schedule harder this year than in 2016?

Our Big Ten schedule is exactly the same as 2016, as far as opponents are concerned: we play our West Division competitors plus Rutgers, Maryland and Penn State from the East. In 2016 we played Penn State and Maryland on the road, this season we'll be playing them at TCF.

Are you saying the non conference schedule was easier in 2016?
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Probably more top 30 level opponents this year.

Also the perception is that the Big Ten West is more "on the rise" than in 2016. (Provided you believe WI and Iowa are constants).
Nebraska and Purdue are both arguably on the "upswing" vs being the last season before their coach gets fired. And Northwestern will probably be better than a 0.500 team coming off a Big Ten West title.

WI, IA, NW, PUR, NEB - That's 5 tough games.
In 2016, 3 of those were considered tough and 2 not as tough.

Also, PSU was reeling going into 2016 and thus we were favored I believe when we played them. In reality though, the 2016 and 2019 PSU teams might be very similar.
 
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Face The Facts said:
Probably more top 30 level opponents this year.

Also the perception is that the Big Ten West is more "on the rise" than in 2016. (Provided you believe WI and Iowa are constants).
Nebraska and Purdue are both arguably on the "upswing" vs being the last season before their coach gets fired. And Northwestern will probably be better than a 0.500 team coming off a Big Ten West title.

WI, IA, NW, PUR, NEB - That's 5 tough games.
In 2016, 3 of those were considered tough and 2 not as tough.

Also, PSU was reeling going into 2016 and thus we were favored I believe when we played them. In reality though, the 2016 and 2019 PSU teams might be very similar.
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Penn State ended 2016 ranked #7 in the country. I doubt they will finish that high this year. They started 2016 with a close loss to Pitt and a loss to #4 Michigan, but reeled off 9 straight wins after that including beating #2 OSU and #6 Wisconsin. They were a very good team.
 

Word said:
Penn State ended 2016 ranked #7 in the country. I doubt they will finish that high this year. They started 2016 with a close loss to Pitt and a loss to #4 Michigan, but reeled off 9 straight wins after that including beating #2 OSU and #6 Wisconsin. They were a very good team.
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At the point we played them, they were still reeling from the scandal and had just suffered one of their worst defeats ever vs Michigan.

Yes, they turned around and were top 10. Not disputing that, but the loss vs PSU that day was viewed as "Gophers let a winnable game disappear", not a moral victory "We gave a Top 10 team everything they could handle".

In the end, it was a well played game against a quality opponent, but at the time, it looked like disappointment compared to our expectations at that time.
 

Face The Facts said:
At the point we played them, they were still reeling from the scandal and had just suffered one of their worst defeats ever vs Michigan.

Yes, they turned around and were top 10. Not disputing that, but the loss vs PSU that day was viewed as "Gophers let a winnable game disappear", not a moral victory "We gave a Top 10 team everything they could handle".

In the end, it was a well played game against a quality opponent, but at the time, it looked like disappointment compared to our expectations at that time.
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Nice try, but no. Just no.
 



Face The Facts said:
At the point we played them, they were still reeling from the scandal and had just suffered one of their worst defeats ever vs Michigan.

Yes, they turned around and were top 10. Not disputing that, but the loss vs PSU that day was viewed as "Gophers let a winnable game disappear", not a moral victory "We gave a Top 10 team everything they could handle".

In the end, it was a well played game against a quality opponent, but at the time, it looked like disappointment compared to our expectations at that time.
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I agree. We should have won against PSU that year. If we would have it would have been a great season.


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Face The Facts said:
I thought you'd be proud of me for my accurate and fair assessment.
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I don't think either of us is wrong. It was a disappointing winnable game against what proved to be a top 10 team.

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That we are trying to take an overtime loss to the seventh best team in the country on the road, and use it as a way to denigrate our highest season win total in more than a decade.
 

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