Jerry Kill Slams PJ

Donate To GopherHole
On a certain level, I understand why Kill is upset. It goes back to the use of the word "culture." Fleck's supporters say he uses the word to mean his entire approach and system. Fine, if that's the case. But I know that when Fleck came in to MN talking about changing the culture, I took that as meaning there were problems with the program that needed to be corrected.

That is clearly how Kill sees it. to Kill, "Change the culture" means that Kill and Claeys did not do things the right way. Now, to be clear, Kill may be interpreting the word "culture" differently than Fleck. But from his comments, that is how Kill sees it. he sees "change the culture" as a direct shot at what Kill and Claeys did at MN.

again - for the selective readers - Kill may be dead wrong. he may be interpreting Fleck's words incorrectly. But that is where Kill is coming from. From Kill's perspective, he sees Fleck as dissing him and what Kill tried to establish at MN. And - very important - Kill sees this disrespect coming from a coach whom he tried to mentor and (Kill says) helped him get his first head coaching job.

From that perspective, you can understand why Kill is upset. Again - he may be dead wrong about Fleck. Just saying that I can understand why Kill feels the way he does.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
On a certain level, I understand why Kill is upset. It goes back to the use of the word "culture." Fleck's supporters say he uses the word to mean his entire approach and system. Fine, if that's the case. But I know that when Fleck came in to MN talking about changing the culture, I took that as meaning there were problems with the program that needed to be corrected.

That is clearly how Kill sees it. to Kill, "Change the culture" means that Kill and Claeys did not do things the right way. Now, to be clear, Kill may be interpreting the word "culture" differently than Fleck. But from his comments, that is how Kill sees it. he sees "change the culture" as a direct shot at what Kill and Claeys did at MN.

again - for the selective readers - Kill may be dead wrong. he may be interpreting Fleck's words incorrectly. But that is where Kill is coming from. From Kill's perspective, he sees Fleck as dissing him and what Kill tried to establish at MN. And - very important - Kill sees this disrespect coming from a coach whom he tried to mentor and (Kill says) helped him get his first head coaching job.

From that perspective, you can understand why Kill is upset. Again - he may be dead wrong about Fleck. Just saying that I can understand why Kill feels the way he does.
Click to expand...

Being upset on some level is not the problem. The problem is crying about it in a public forum. It pretty much proves his Country Jer persona was as manufactured as he claims PJ’s RTB mentality is. Country Jer would have been a man and if he had an issue he’d go to PJ about it.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
On a certain level, I understand why Kill is upset. It goes back to the use of the word "culture." Fleck's supporters say he uses the word to mean his entire approach and system. Fine, if that's the case. But I know that when Fleck came in to MN talking about changing the culture, I took that as meaning there were problems with the program that needed to be corrected.

That is clearly how Kill sees it. to Kill, "Change the culture" means that Kill and Claeys did not do things the right way. Now, to be clear, Kill may be interpreting the word "culture" differently than Fleck. But from his comments, that is how Kill sees it. he sees "change the culture" as a direct shot at what Kill and Claeys did at MN.

again - for the selective readers - Kill may be dead wrong. he may be interpreting Fleck's words incorrectly. But that is where Kill is coming from. From Kill's perspective, he sees Fleck as dissing him and what Kill tried to establish at MN. And - very important - Kill sees this disrespect coming from a coach whom he tried to mentor and (Kill says) helped him get his first head coaching job.

From that perspective, you can understand why Kill is upset. Again - he may be dead wrong about Fleck. Just saying that I can understand why Kill feels the way he does.
Click to expand...
This comes close to my viewpoint.

PJ was brought into Kills coaching family but bolted for greener pastures (pursue bigger and better job). PJ then winds up as HC at a B10 program at age 36, or nearly 20yrs sooner than Kill got his opportunity. Perhaps he feels PJ took a shortcut (changed) and didn't "pay his dues" to earn a bigtime job and paycheck.

Now Kill laments about what happened to him and feels that somehow PJ didnt do what he thinks was "the right way" and needs to vocalize it in a way only Jerry can do it.




Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 




WinLoseOrTy said:
Relevant...

from http://www.startribune.com/jerry-kill-turnaround-artist-has-done-it-again/323335841/

Kill inherited several players from Brewster who keyed the program's turnaround, including Brock Vereen, Ra'Shede Hageman and Cameron Botticelli. But the team's overall reputation wasn't great.

"Our culture was bad," Kill said. "We had people in trouble every week."
Click to expand...

I get it now. Jerry thinks PJ meant the same thing by culture when Jerry was saying direct and harsh things about Brewster’s culture. So of course when PJ used the word culture, Jerry put his own behavior in PJ’s place in his mind and got mad.

Or the guy is just hypocritical on this topic.
 
Last edited:

WinLoseOrTy said:
Relevant...

from http://www.startribune.com/jerry-kill-turnaround-artist-has-done-it-again/323335841/

Kill inherited several players from Brewster who keyed the program's turnaround, including Brock Vereen, Ra'Shede Hageman and Cameron Botticelli. But the team's overall reputation wasn't great.

"Our culture was bad," Kill said. "We had people in trouble every week."
Click to expand...

Yeah, Kill also beat the "we are young" thing into the ground over his first few seasons as well. It all comes down to the fact that Kill can have whatever opinion he wants of Fleck but to bring it up on a National show, unsolicited, is just petty. Had the hosts asked him a direct question about it that would be one thing but they didn't. He clearly had an axe to grind and was determined to bring it up.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
And somehow Tim has managed not to say anything bad about the U / Kill since leaving...
Click to expand...

Don't believe Brewster responded directly to the culture comments, but he did take the high road when offended by Kill another time.


https://www.grandforksherald.com/content/kill-questions-gopher-players-toughness-talent-ex-coach-brewster-does-not

Still sour Tuesday after last week's 58-0 beatdown by Michigan, Gophers football coach Jerry Kill questioned the mental toughness, talent and discipline on and off the field of the players he inherited in his first season.

"That's not (former Minnesota coach Tim) Brewster's fault," Kill said. "I'm not blaming anybody. I'm just saying the facts are the facts."

When told that, Brewster disputed those facts.

"All I know is this: I believe in the players that I recruited at the University of Minnesota," Brewster, now a Fox college football and NFL analyst, said Tuesday. "I believe in them. It's a great group of young men that are committed to making the University of Minnesota the best it can be on the football field."
 

WinLoseOrTy said:
Don't believe Brewster responded directly to the culture comments, but he did take the high road when offended by Kill another time.


https://www.grandforksherald.com/content/kill-questions-gopher-players-toughness-talent-ex-coach-brewster-does-not

Still sour Tuesday after last week's 58-0 beatdown by Michigan, Gophers football coach Jerry Kill questioned the mental toughness, talent and discipline on and off the field of the players he inherited in his first season.

"That's not (former Minnesota coach Tim) Brewster's fault," Kill said. "I'm not blaming anybody. I'm just saying the facts are the facts."

When told that, Brewster disputed those facts.

"All I know is this: I believe in the players that I recruited at the University of Minnesota," Brewster, now a Fox college football and NFL analyst, said Tuesday. "I believe in them. It's a great group of young men that are committed to making the University of Minnesota the best it can be on the football field."
Click to expand...

Brew stank as a HC, but yeah he's always been positive / not saying anything bad about the U or the coaches. And man he trash talks a lot on twitter.... but obviously fun trash talk and serious comments about the U wouldn't be the same thing, still he has taken the high road.

I'd happily have him back as a TE coach / crooter.
 



Gophers_4life said:
He didn’t imply that. Why are you making that up??? That’s awful.
Click to expand...

He implied that he changed and got rid of his first wife. I was saying that happened after his child had passed away which is true. I used that to compare Fleck changing and dropping his first (which Kill essentially implies) and the death of a child because it is asinine to believe that losing a child wouldn't strain a relationship in many ways. For Kill to imply its all because of PJ and not other difficult circumstances is wrong. Kill wants to attribute his failed marriage because he changed. That's poor taste and honestly why would he bring up his ex wife for any other reason than to say something negative? Everything he said about PJ was negative.

EDIT: Yeah what I said was accurate after I reread. Jerry implied PJ dropped his first wife and common sense tells you this was after they lost their child. How can Jerry says its all on PJ? Makes him look even worse if he changes and drops his wife after they went through that together.

Funny how you can elicit the meaning of Jerry Kill's comments from a presser (you claim he isn't a great public speaker, but it made sense in his head so its not his fault he alledges Fleck is mad), but can't understand the timeline of events. If you don't have a problem with what Kill says that is fine honestly. But don't keep asking others what is wrong with it because Jerry made statements that were outlandish and uncalled for to the majority of people
 
Last edited:

WinLoseOrTy said:
Relevant...

from http://www.startribune.com/jerry-kill-turnaround-artist-has-done-it-again/323335841/

Kill inherited several players from Brewster who keyed the program's turnaround, including Brock Vereen, Ra'Shede Hageman and Cameron Botticelli. But the team's overall reputation wasn't great.

"Our culture was bad," Kill said. "We had people in trouble every week."
Click to expand...

I just re-read that article. It was literally the peak of the Minnesota/Kill love affair. And, it was totally okay for Kill to say he had to change the culture and the way he said it, the "culture" he spoke of was that of Brewster. The way Fleck now speaks of it, is in general terms about the 50 year drought of championships. Yet Kill is taking it personally. WHAT A SHAME. What a wasted legacy here.

There is nothing I'd like better than a rally on campus after a Rose Bowl victory with Kill invited back as an honored guest as the person that started all this. Instead he himself has said he will never step foot on the MN campus again. Aim gun at foot, pull trigger, Jerry.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
On a certain level, I understand why Kill is upset. It goes back to the use of the word "culture." Fleck's supporters say he uses the word to mean his entire approach and system. Fine, if that's the case. But I know that when Fleck came in to MN talking about changing the culture, I took that as meaning there were problems with the program that needed to be corrected.

That is clearly how Kill sees it. to Kill, "Change the culture" means that Kill and Claeys did not do things the right way. Now, to be clear, Kill may be interpreting the word "culture" differently than Fleck. But from his comments, that is how Kill sees it. he sees "change the culture" as a direct shot at what Kill and Claeys did at MN.

again - for the selective readers - Kill may be dead wrong. he may be interpreting Fleck's words incorrectly. But that is where Kill is coming from. From Kill's perspective, he sees Fleck as dissing him and what Kill tried to establish at MN. And - very important - Kill sees this disrespect coming from a coach whom he tried to mentor and (Kill says) helped him get his first head coaching job.

From that perspective, you can understand why Kill is upset. Again - he may be dead wrong about Fleck. Just saying that I can understand why Kill feels the way he does.
Click to expand...


I agree with you SON.

I wouldn't stake my life on my memory, but as I recall during the introductory news conference it was Coyle who came out pushing for a new culture in his introduction of PJ. He seemed to be directing it at the football program. PJ carried that forward and I remember cringing when he talked about a new culture. i was waiting for him to throw the Claeys under the bus. Then he went on to say the new culture involved everybody. The football team, the students, the regents, the community, the business community. They ALL needed to buy into the culture.

It was not a "I'm the new Sheriff in town" talk but one of getting EVERYBODY (students, co-workers, the barber, even housewives who nothing of football) talking about the Gophers. It involved getting the team out in the community and serving.

He said he couldn't fix Gopher football by himself, this new culture had to involve everybody for it to work.

At least that is how I recall it.
 

PoockItInfor6 said:
Being upset on some level is not the problem. The problem is crying about it in a public forum. It pretty much proves his Country Jer persona was as manufactured as he claims PJ’s RTB mentality is. Country Jer would have been a man and if he had an issue he’d go to PJ about it.
Click to expand...

That's actually a really good point but I agree with SON as well. I mean regardless what is PJ supposed to say when our football team is involved in best case scenario a large group orgy or worst case a gang rape. Would you expect anyone with a brain in their head to not come in and say anything about the culture?
 



short ornery norwegian said:
On a certain level, I understand why Kill is upset. It goes back to the use of the word "culture." Fleck's supporters say he uses the word to mean his entire approach and system. Fine, if that's the case. But I know that when Fleck came in to MN talking about changing the culture, I took that as meaning there were problems with the program that needed to be corrected.

That is clearly how Kill sees it. to Kill, "Change the culture" means that Kill and Claeys did not do things the right way. Now, to be clear, Kill may be interpreting the word "culture" differently than Fleck. But from his comments, that is how Kill sees it. he sees "change the culture" as a direct shot at what Kill and Claeys did at MN.

again - for the selective readers - Kill may be dead wrong. he may be interpreting Fleck's words incorrectly. But that is where Kill is coming from. From Kill's perspective, he sees Fleck as dissing him and what Kill tried to establish at MN. And - very important - Kill sees this disrespect coming from a coach whom he tried to mentor and (Kill says) helped him get his first head coaching job.

From that perspective, you can understand why Kill is upset. Again - he may be dead wrong about Fleck. Just saying that I can understand why Kill feels the way he does.
Click to expand...

Kill had a right be upset. But it's been two years and these comments accomplish nothing and come off as bitter. My opinion of Kill certainly went down a notch.
 

howeda7 said:
Kill had a right be upset. But it's been two years and these comments accomplish nothing and come off as bitter. My opinion of Kill certainly went down a notch.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I feel.
 

Judge for yourself - PJ Flwck hiring press conference:

 

I don't know why people suddenly feel differently about Kill. He's been whining for years about this and previously stated he would never step foot again in the stadium. And all this coming from a guy who shouldn't really have a bone to pick - he quit on his own due to health reasons despite the U sticking by him for years...

It's almost like he had the expectation that his assistant (Claeys) was owed a long-term contract. The same assistant who immediately fired two of his other long-term coaches after he got the job.
 

hungan1 said:
Judge for yourself - PJ Flwck hiring press conference:

Click to expand...

You are making the assumption that whatever got JK mad was said during his opening presser? There were hundreds of days between that day and the day Kill went wacko.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Here's my take on the situation. Kill was a HC for a long-time, and he expected absolute loyalty from his assistants. The assistants didn't question Jerry, and he showed loyalty to them and brought them with him to every new destination. At Northern Illinois, he does a favor in his mind for a kid called PJ who should owe him big time. PJ, unlike all of his other coaches, is disloyal to Jerry and goes to Rutgers after a year. Kill is pissed because that's not how "his" staff operates. Later on, he watches this same disloyal assistant get his dream job at a much younger age. The kid doesn't publicly talk about how great Kill was, and Jerry can't understand why he doesn't respect the coaches that helped him along the way (Jerry). Not only does the disloyal assistant get the job Jerry worked for his entire life at a much younger age, but he is making significant more money with better facilities than Jerry had. And now Jerry has to spend the rest of his life in Carbondale Illinois at a school that's irrelevant.
 

John Galt said:
Here's my take on the situation. Kill was a HC for a long-time, and he expected absolute loyalty from his assistants. The assistants didn't question Jerry, and he showed loyalty to them and brought them with him to every new destination. At Northern Illinois, he does a favor in his mind for a kid called PJ who should owe him big time. PJ, unlike all of his other coaches, is disloyal to Jerry and goes to Rutgers after a year. Kill is pissed because that's not how "his" staff operates. Later on, he watches this same disloyal assistant get his dream job at a much younger age. The kid doesn't publicly talk about how great Kill was, and Jerry can't understand why he doesn't respect the coaches that helped him along the way (Jerry). Not only does the disloyal assistant get the job Jerry worked for his entire life at a much younger age, but he is making significant more money with better facilities than Jerry had. And now Jerry has to spend the rest of his life in Carbondale Illinois at a school that's irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I would say this is a fairly good theory and most likely true.
 


WHB Brewer said:
This comes close to my viewpoint.

PJ was brought into Kills coaching family but bolted for greener pastures (pursue bigger and better job). PJ then winds up as HC at a B10 program at age 36, or nearly 20yrs sooner than Kill got his opportunity. Perhaps he feels PJ took a shortcut (changed) and didn't "pay his dues" to earn a bigtime job and paycheck.

Now Kill laments about what happened to him and feels that somehow PJ didnt do what he thinks was "the right way" and needs to vocalize it in a way only Jerry can do it.
Click to expand...

Kill was 49 when he took the Minnesota job.
 

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

"I've got a lot of respect for Jerry Kill, I always will," Fleck said. "I'm really sorry that he feels that way. I'm not sure where that came from. I do know this, we're focused on our team. I wish him all the best in the next journey of his life being an athletic director and I hope he's okay."


"That saddens me, it saddened Heather, it saddened our entire family. This isn't a profession about feelings. The one thing that's really important to me is our players...that's been my focus from day one since I've been the head football coach here."
Click to expand...

Well played.
 


PhillyGopher said:
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

Good for PJ. We gripe a lot about how the U handles things, but somebody was sharp enough to get PJ in front of a friendly mic to address Kill’s remarks, take the high road and move past this. I’m sure it will come up again, but PJ can now say he’s addressed it and is moving forward.
 

Good Move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Well played.
Click to expand...

Great response from Fleck. Hopefully Kill will realize he messed up, settle into his new job and if we are all lucky it will be the last time we get comments from Kill about the U of M or Fleck.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom