Gopher basketball starting over

Who will transfer if he stays? He had such a short bench last night! You telling me IW couldn't get ten minutes of run out there? Stull only guard to play off bench. That's just plain nuts! IW must be in the doghouse for something.

I'll be surprised if IW doesn't transfer regardless. As for others, I don't think there will be a mass exodus. We only have 9 returning players. 3 have already transferred or used a redshirt season. 4 are MN kids.
 

In 2 years out of the last 40 we had seasons where we were better than 2 games over 0.500 in the Big Ten season. (1982 and 1997)

3 seasons where we were 2 games over 0.500. (89-90, 04-05, 16-17)

Only 10 Big Ten winning seasons in those last 40-41 years.
 

Monson was a good coach...he was handcuffed by sanctions for most of his tenure. Tubby did give up.

A new coach will set the program back 2 years unless you qe hire coach K or the like.

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Tubby won 20 games in year 1. Pitino won 25. "It'll set us back 2 years" is a weak excuse for keeping Pitino around.
 

Not that much different in college football. There are just teams that are at the tip-top, and have done whatever it is that they needed to do in the past in order to get there ....... and the momentum of all the things, just makes it almost impossible for any team to get there and SUSTAIN being there, if they're not already there.

The argument I would have is that it should be easier to "spike" in basketball.

Either do this with a couple super stars or maybe getting a team of 5-6 good players who age together for 4 years. You have a couple different models to try to achieve it.
 

I don't think anyone roots for the team to lose so Pitino will lose his job. That is silly talk. All of us want the team to win. Most of us want the team to win with Pitino. Hell, a young guy with a big name, he's likeable, somewhat of a "cool" guy. Who wouldn't want him to win? Pitino lead gophers reach sweet sixteen. Everyone wants to see those headlines.

Absolutely. It would be in our best interest to turn it on, beat Michigan, beat Purdue, make the NCAAs and win a couple games. But I can't watch last night, win or lose and think we are close to doing that. And I can't look at this roster, subtract Jordan Murphy and McBreyer, add Carr and Willis and say, oh man we'll be so much better next year.
 


I'm not sure what the program would be set back two years FROM. A run of NCAA tournament appearances? An identity or culture that has taken time to build and will be blown up? A young team trending in the right direction? Everybody is debating reasons to fire Pitino, but what are the reasons to keep him?

Your concerns seem flimsy. Learning a new offense? Good. (This isn't football, changing from the wishbone to West Coast.) Recruiting? We have one guy signed for 2019 and there's still time for 2020. Players leaving? Who? Coffey could grad transfer, that would hurt for one year. Gabe, Oturu and Carr are the only others who matter; I don't see them leaving, although I could be wrong.

Plus, a new coach will likely bring a recruit or existing player or two with him.
 

I think what is most revealing is that even during Clem's years, this program dating back to Jim Dutcher has largely been very consistent as a middle-lower tier Big Ten Team.

It's just who we are. It's hard to believe a change in coaching is really going to matter much.

When Tubby was at the end of his string, we all thought things couldn't get much worse and could only get better, but in reality it's just been the same.

Same with Clem, (except 1997), same with Monson, same with Tubby, same with Dutcher (except 1982).

Clem's last 6 years we made the NCAA's 4 times and should have made it 5. It's not impossible.
 

Tubby won 20 games in year 1. Pitino won 25. "It'll set us back 2 years" is a weak excuse for keeping Pitino around.
How was recruiting those years?? Seems to me year three was a bit down

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In 2 years out of the last 40 we had seasons where we were better than 2 games over 0.500 in the Big Ten season. (1982 and 1997)

3 seasons where we were 2 games over 0.500. (89-90, 04-05, 16-17)

Only 10 Big Ten winning seasons in those last 40-41 years.

Winning seasons by coach that we not expunged:

Pitino = 1
Tubby = 0
Monson= 2
Haskins = 1
Dutcher = 3
Total = 7

Three others expunged

Years we ended up ranked - 4
 



I think what is most revealing is that even during Clem's years, this program dating back to Jim Dutcher has largely been very consistent as a middle-lower tier Big Ten Team.

It's just who we are. It's hard to believe a change in coaching is really going to matter much.

When Tubby was at the end of his string, we all thought things couldn't get much worse and could only get better, but in reality it's just been the same.

Same with Clem, (except 1997), same with Monson, same with Tubby, same with Dutcher (except 1982).

Interesting. I remember when Wisconsin suddenly came out of nowhere in 1999 or 2000 and made it to the Final Four. Prior to that, they were pretty awful...certainly worse than the Gophers. I know there is quite a bit of hyperbole right now, but I certainly don't agree with an assessment that the Gophers are meant to be the Washington Generals of college basketball (I know I'm putting some words in your mouth, but that seems like the general suggestion of the post).
 


Clem's last 6 years we made the NCAA's 4 times and should have made it 5. It's not impossible.

There is just one problem with Clem's record. I loved him as a coach btw.
 

In 2 years out of the last 40 we had seasons where we were better than 2 games over 0.500 in the Big Ten season. (1982 and 1997)

3 seasons where we were 2 games over 0.500. (89-90, 04-05, 16-17)

Only 10 Big Ten winning seasons in those last 40-41 years.

Minneapolis, and Minnesota in general, is just too far away geographically from the main Big Ten population centers and hot beds of talent, in the main two college revenue sports. Too much competition, too many schools in between us and the recruits. Only place where we're on equal footing, in theory, with other schools is recruits who happen to grow up in our backyard. There certainly are those, perhaps more in bball than football. But far less overall than when you combine all the population centers closer to the Great Lakes and then the rest of the country east of the Mississippi. And then for local recruits, you have to deal with the fact that some of them want to get away from MN for a while, get away from home.


These factors create a statistical disadvantage relative to the Big Ten teams we have to compete against. And it is something that Minnesota always has, and probably always will, have to struggle to overcome. We're just stuck out in a cold, wild west. Mpls is a big place, but it's 7 hours drive to Chicago, and that's really the western edge of civilization.
 



Interesting. I remember when Wisconsin suddenly came out of nowhere in 1999 or 2000 and made it to the Final Four. Prior to that, they were pretty awful...certainly worse than the Gophers. I know there is quite a bit of hyperbole right now, but I certainly don't agree with an assessment that the Gophers are meant to be the Washington Generals of college basketball (I know I'm putting some words in your mouth, but that seems like the general suggestion of the post).

They aren't the Washington Generals, but they are very consistent at being a 0.500 team at best.

WI athletics changed (football and basketball) around the same period. It wasn't just a coach change. Something bigger.
 

Tubby won 20 games in year 1. Pitino won 25. "It'll set us back 2 years" is a weak excuse for keeping Pitino around.

If there is a new coach (probable) he has a chance to not have a set back because he has a good young core of sophs to work with in Carr, Kalscheur and Oturu.

But he will need to produce good spring recruiting help- a PF/C and a shooter at least. Pitino got it done with a steal of a find in lil Dre who was amazing that first year and he also got some good run out of Smith as a 6th man sniper. The roster Tubby handed him was not real good and it was an old roster. So this could be a good to really good situation for a new coach if he can find the right adds.
 

Do ADs tend to have a strong idea of a potential candidate's interest before letting go a current coach?
 


They aren't the Washington Generals, but they are very consistent at being a 0.500 team at best.

WI athletics changed (football and basketball) around the same period. It wasn't just a coach change. Something bigger.

Madison is "only" 3 hrs to Chicago, an hour to Milwaukee. Still seems west of civilization, but maybe even that little bit must help.


Granted, of course, just being fortunate in geography alone doesn't get it done. Illinois is perfect example. Though you could argue it is on the western edge too.
 

Minneapolis, and Minnesota in general, is just too far away geographically from the main Big Ten population centers and hot beds of talent, in the main two college revenue sports. Too much competition, too many schools in between us and the recruits. Only place where we're on equal footing, in theory, with other schools is recruits who happen to grow up in our backyard. There certainly are those, perhaps more in bball than football. But far less overall than when you combine all the population centers closer to the Great Lakes and then the rest of the country east of the Mississippi. And then for local recruits, you have to deal with the fact that some of them want to get away from MN for a while, get away from home.


These factors create a statistical disadvantage relative to the Big Ten teams we have to compete against. And it is something that Minnesota always has, and probably always will, have to struggle to overcome. We're just stuck out in a cold, wild west. Mpls is a big place, but it's 7 hours drive to Chicago, and that's really the western edge of civilization.

This is true and it appears to matter.

Yes, we have "good" local talent, but not enough that we can only keep half and be excellent.
The top players in any market will look to leave their hometowns for Duke, Kansas, Kentucky.

Problem we have is when #1 or #2 leave for Kansas, our #3, #4, and #7 that we keep end up being far worse than the #10, 15 and #20 out of other better basketball markets.

Same is true for football, but with football there are only 130 teams competing (and 70 major) vs 350 with about 100 programs considered major.
 

If there is a new coach (probable) he has a chance to not have a set back because he has a good young core of sophs to work with in Carr, Kalscheur and Oturu.

Are writing off Omersa at this point?
 

Do ADs tend to have a strong idea of a potential candidate's interest before letting go a current coach?

Excellent question for built badgers I think! I wonder the same thing. Can they confidentially circulate the word of a "possible opening" without causing issues if the current coach rallies??
 

I think what is most revealing is that even during Clem's years, this program dating back to Jim Dutcher has largely been very consistent as a middle-lower tier Big Ten Team.

It's just who we are. It's hard to believe a change in coaching is really going to matter much.

When Tubby was at the end of his string, we all thought things couldn't get much worse and could only get better, but in reality it's just been the same.

Same with Clem, (except 1997), same with Monson, same with Tubby, same with Dutcher (except 1982).

I get your overall point, but your exceptions are big ones. A Final Four? Yes, I know, that didn't count. So how about the Elite Eight and Sweet Sixteen that do count under Clem? And 1982 was a Big Ten championship -- I'll take that. We won a championship in 1972 and narrowly missed in '73. Finished in the top four five times in the '60s.

It's now been 20 years that we've been waiting, so that success seems like a long time ago. The program has always been cyclical, but a tourney run or fighting for the Big Ten championship once a decade should be possible -- and has been.
 

Do ADs tend to have a strong idea of a potential candidate's interest before letting go a current coach?

Good ones have their guy lined up like Coyle had Fleck primed.
Bad ones do not, and hope.
 

Are writing off Omersa at this point?

No. I like him, he is just really raw. In a couple of years he is going to be a guy other teams hate to play against. He's not going to score much next year but he can be a nice bench guy , rebounder and defensive menace as he learns.
 

Good ones have their guy lined up like Coyle had Fleck primed.
Bad ones do not, and hope.

Like Teague when he hired Pitino. Had one bullet (Shaka Smart) and missed. Then he went to reload and realized he had no ammo. Ended up with his Plan M.
 

Could Alford bring those decommitted UCLA recruits? Could Hoiberg bring in some hot transfers? Maybe?

I, at least think either of these guys could do a better job of teaching players how to shoot!
 

Like Teague when he hired Pitino. Had one bullet (Shaka Smart) and missed. Then he went to reload and realized he had no ammo. Ended up with his Plan M.

Did they go hard after Enfield as well? He hasn't exactly killed it in the soft Pac12.
 

Like Teague when he hired Pitino. Had one bullet (Shaka Smart) and missed. Then he went to reload and realized he had no ammo. Ended up with his Plan M.

Coyle's bullet did hit the mark, though, with Fleck for football. And I only mean, he got the guy that he wanted. Now sure, in theory if you're reaching down you SHOULD get the guy ... but Fleck could've gone to other schools too. He did choose to come to Minnesota, and we apparently were on his list of schools he was willing to leave W Michigan for.


Does Coyle have another bullet left ...... ?

And if we were going to reach "down", what conference is the right fit? MAC again? Missouri Valley?
 


I get your overall point, but your exceptions are big ones. A Final Four? Yes, I know, that didn't count. So how about the Elite Eight and Sweet Sixteen that do count under Clem? And 1982 was a Big Ten championship -- I'll take that. We won a championship in 1972 and narrowly missed in '73. Finished in the top four five times in the '60s.

It's now been 20 years that we've been waiting, so that success seems like a long time ago. The program has always been cyclical, but a tourney run or fighting for the Big Ten championship once a decade should be possible -- and has been.

1982 is really all we have.

The tournament run to the sweet sixteen and elite 8 were good, but we were 9-9 and 11-7 in the Big Ten those years. (89 and 90)
 




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