Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36
  1. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RememberMurray View Post
    My opinion: they cannot/must not lose games they are favored/expected to win.

    When I look at the schedule, I think they should really be favorites in the first 8 games.

    Yes, that's what I said: favored over their first 8 opponents — including against Purdue in East Lafayette and over the Cornhuskers at TCF. We curb-stomped the Boilers last season, and Nebraska, while improved, is one of the few B1G teams that failed to make a bowl appearance.

    After those 8 games, you have:

    Bye

    Penn State at TCF

    Iowa at Kinnick

    Northwestern at Evanston

    Wisconsin at TCF
    If you were talking about Ohio St, you would have a great point. But teams like Minnesota, have historically found ways to lose games in which they were favored, every season. It basically just means that they're not an elite program that wins a vast majority of games each season.

    Likely, statistically, we'll drop some of those first eight. I'm even only hopeful about 3-0 in nonconf, but would not be surprised at 2-1, and would be disappointed at 1-2.

    For those first five Big Ten games ... hopeful for 3-2, would not be surprised at 2-3, would be disappointed at 1-4.


    So would hope to be 6-2. That last four game stretch is brutal, would not be surprised at 1-3. That would give the 7-5 regular season finish that would still show signs of improvement to me and be an acceptable step for this season. Of course, the other big part of that is to have no bad losses. That is also important, be IN every game.


  2. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Windom, MN
    Posts
    6,890

    Default

    Long-range future of game: I don't think football will ever go away. My bet is that, over time, we will see all levels from HS to the pros continue to try and take head contact out of the game through rules and officiating. The current players 'learned' to try and make the big kill-shot. Now, players will have to un-learn starting from Junior high up. If rules are strictly enforced, in 20 years or so, you could take a lot of the objectionable head contact out of the game. I could see some kind of a sensor system in helmets - you make head contact with another player, the helmet lights up, and you get a penalty. eventually, get players back to making form tackles. It may be a less violent game, but it will still be entertaining.

    Outlook for Gophers: at the current level of recruiting, I can see the Gophers become a fairly consistent 8-9 win team. But, to get to that 10-win level where you're in the top 20 and playing in New Year's Day bowl games, the recruiting will have to take another step, with classes at #30 or better on a consistent basis. As far as attendance, I think it will take one of those 10-win seasons or better to really move the needle.

  3. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gophers_4life View Post
    If you were talking about Ohio St, you would have a great point. But teams like Minnesota, have historically found ways to lose games in which they were favored, every season. It basically just means that they're not an elite program that wins a vast majority of games each season.

    Likely, statistically, we'll drop some of those first eight. I'm even only hopeful about 3-0 in nonconf, but would not be surprised at 2-1, and would be disappointed at 1-2.

    For those first five Big Ten games ... hopeful for 3-2, would not be surprised at 2-3, would be disappointed at 1-4.


    So would hope to be 6-2. That last four game stretch is brutal, would not be surprised at 1-3. That would give the 7-5 regular season finish that would still show signs of improvement to me and be an acceptable step for this season. Of course, the other big part of that is to have no bad losses. That is also important, be IN every game.
    So, if I'm reading your take on the Fleck program so far, it is as follows: the program is not (yet) elite, but it might get there someday in the distant future.

    In 2019, you're hoping for — maybe — a one game improvement from last season, to 7-5, despite the team's strong finish last year and a favorable upcoming schedule.

    ----

    My main question to you — and the (many) other GHers like you — is, do you actually have higher expectations for this team going forward, or are you okay with 7-5? Do you expect the Gophers to eventually be "an elite program that wins a vast majority of games each season" under P. J. Fleck? If so, when do you see that happening?

    I'm not picking on you personally, because your point of view seems to be the majority one on GH.

    But if 7-5 is our expectation as fans, what's the point of the exercise? Surely it can't be much fun, year after year assuming in advance we'll be cheering for another also-ran Gopher squad.

  4. #19

    Default

    No one, myself included, is happy at 7-5 in perpetuity.

    I dare say that no fan/alumni of P5 programs across the nation is happy with that. They're always striving for better, spending a lot $$$ hoping to make that happen. But, of course, they can't all succeed. There are a precious few programs that have made it to the very tip-top, and the sheer momentum of all the things, recruiting, coaching, facilities, etc. seems to be that getting to, and maintaining a top 10 program is almost impossible for any program that isn't already there.

    Would we be happy finishing ranked in the top 25, but outside the top 15, every season over the next ten years, but never finishing higher than that?


    This is a deep philosophical debate here ..... boiling down to essentially the question "what would allow you to die happy?" And the answer to that question is probably going to vary quite a bit, to each present day Gopher fan.

  5. #20

    Default

    I feel better about the program than I have since Mason arrived. It's going to be a bit of a slog and year-to-year may be uneven, but I think Fleck has his eyes affixed to a site higher than what previous coaches have (I don't count Brewster, who simply was out of his depth and had no business making the statements he made). Whether Fleck gets us there is the big question. He can be a "walking eagle" (so full of sh*t he can't fly) sometimes, but I believe he is an ardent student of both the on-field and off-field aspects of the game and he wants to emulate the best. Again, the proof as to whether he's successful or not remains to be seen.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    2,958

    Default

    This is how I feel about the Gophers. This kind of positivity is necessary from this fan base.

    https://deadspin.com/man-applies-for...dde-1481626884

    highlight: We will put on an exciting brand of football, we will pack them into the Alerus Center night in and night out, go ahead and blow the roof off the place and add about 35,000 seats to that place.

    But I would replace Alerus with TCF Bank Stadium
    F wisconsin and I do really hate Iowa.

  7. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGophersUMN View Post
    Paying players is eventually coming but I doubt that any time in the near future, programs with better finances will be allowed to win recruiting battles by paying players more. There will be a cap and that cap will be fairly low. I bet it will end up being a flat payment of something less than $20,000 a year for every athlete/every scholarship athlete. Athletic departments will need to make some budgeting changes but it won't be like baseball where the Yankees can outspend everyone. If anything it may level the playing field as I suspect many top teams are paying players under the table. Especially with poor athletes, small payments to help your family or to help you afford a car could make the difference in where you go.
    Just to be clear, many, if not most, Division 1 schools already pay student athletes. It's called "Cost of Attendance" and it varies from school to school but all perfectly legal. So in addition to tuition, books, meals, living accommodations, student athletes receive a monthly stipend ranging from a few hundred dollars to $1,500+ per month (depending on the school). If the student athlete elects to live off campus, the stipend money is increased to allow for rent.

    https://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/artic...-attendance-qa
    Last edited by GoGoGopher12; 02-11-2019 at 04:10 PM.

  8. #23

    Default

    If that’s how you define “paying players”, then schools have been “paying” players for decades.

    Easy example is living off-campus. They still give you the equivalent value of “room” in the scholarship. Just cut you a check for the difference.

    FCOA just bumped up that difference a little bit more. But it was always happening, for any kind of positive difference in the student’s account.

  9. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gophers_4life View Post
    No one, myself included, is happy at 7-5 in perpetuity.

    I dare say that no fan/alumni of P5 programs across the nation is happy with that. They're always striving for better, spending a lot $$$ hoping to make that happen. But, of course, they can't all succeed. There are a precious few programs that have made it to the very tip-top, and the sheer momentum of all the things, recruiting, coaching, facilities, etc. seems to be that getting to, and maintaining a top 10 program is almost impossible for any program that isn't already there.

    Would we be happy finishing ranked in the top 25, but outside the top 15, every season over the next ten years, but never finishing higher than that?


    This is a deep philosophical debate here ..... boiling down to essentially the question "what would allow you to die happy?" And the answer to that question is probably going to vary quite a bit, to each present day Gopher fan.
    Well said. Clearly every Gopher fan has his or her own expectations.

    Maybe the question I should have asked is more like this:


    Let's say Coyle and Fleck publicly stated that the goal for the program going forward was to be "ranked in the top 25, but outside the top 15, every season over the next ten years, but never finishing higher than that."

    I'd be interested to hear how many GopherHolers would find the quote highlighted to be a satisfactory goal, and how many would be disappointed to hear Coyle and Fleck set that as the benchmark.

    Count me as a person who would find it disappointing, or, as a fellow poster once eloquently put it, "kind of droopy".

  10. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gophers_4life View Post
    If that’s how you define “paying players”, then schools have been “paying” players for decades.

    Easy example is living off-campus. They still give you the equivalent value of “room” in the scholarship. Just cut you a check for the difference.

    FCOA just bumped up that difference a little bit more. But it was always happening, for any kind of positive difference in the student’s account.
    Since 2015 anyway. I don't know what else you'd call it other than "paying players".

    Giving a player money for rent versus living in student housing is just reallocating the original scholarship. But the COA is over and above that original scholarship. It's a good thing and glad the NCAA agreed to it. I had guys on my team doing some pretty unscrupulous things to make a little spending cash like selling team issued shoes, selling game tickets, etc) back in the day.

  11. #26

    Default

    I believe PJ delivers 2 Rose Bowls in the next 5 years.

  12. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RememberMurray View Post
    Well said. Clearly every Gopher fan has his or her own expectations.

    Maybe the question I should have asked is more like this:


    Let's say Coyle and Fleck publicly stated that the goal for the program going forward was to be "ranked in the top 25, but outside the top 15, every season over the next ten years, but never finishing higher than that."

    I'd be interested to hear how many GopherHolers would find the quote highlighted to be a satisfactory goal, and how many would be disappointed to hear Coyle and Fleck set that as the benchmark.

    Count me as a person who would find it disappointing, or, as a fellow poster once eloquently put it, "kind of droopy".
    No one would ever say that, though. That kind of language doesn't work. No one likes to be told that there is a ceiling. Instead, you would just say something like "we're going to try to be in the top 25 every year over the next ten years". That way it's still the same thing, but gives the illusion that there is no ceiling.


    So let me ask you my man ...... what will allow you to die happy as a Gopher football fan?? I feel like, for better or for worse, given that it now much more symbolic than significant ..... but still, a lot of Gopher fans would die happy if we won a Rose Bowl.

    And that kind of thing certainly can be done these days as a top 15 team. It can work roughly like this: win the West, perhaps going 10-2, 11-1 or something like that, and ranked say #12, playing say Ohio State as a top 5 ranked team in the Big Ten Championship game, lose the game, drop down to #15, but Ohio State goes to the CFP, which is not at the Rose Bowl that year, and so the Gophers go to the Rose Bowl as a runner up.

    Easily possible.

    Can we get there?? We're trying like hell ....

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Windom, MN
    Posts
    6,890

    Default

    Look, if you held my feet to the fire, I guess I would say I don't ever see the Gophers as a top-10 type of team. If they could become a top-25 team on a regular basis - play in some New Year's Day bowls, and make it to the Rose Bowl, I would see that as the ceiling for the program.

    I just don't see the U of MN making the commitment that it takes to be a top-10 program - commitment in terms of money, facilities, and (often) playing the 'don't ask, don't tell' game with the boosters. Of course, that assumes that the program would have boosters with fat wallets who were willing to open them up to benefit the program. when push comes to shove, the U of MN administration and faculty are just not willing to go that far for athletics.

    Here's a different question - If the Gophers won a national title, but it turned out they violated NCAA rules to do it, would you be OK with that? Because that might be the only way a school like MN could win a championship.

  14. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RememberMurray View Post
    Well said. Clearly every Gopher fan has his or her own expectations.

    Maybe the question I should have asked is more like this:


    Let's say Coyle and Fleck publicly stated that the goal for the program going forward was to be "ranked in the top 25, but outside the top 15, every season over the next ten years, but never finishing higher than that."

    I'd be interested to hear how many GopherHolers would find the quote highlighted to be a satisfactory goal, and how many would be disappointed to hear Coyle and Fleck set that as the benchmark.

    Count me as a person who would find it disappointing, or, as a fellow poster once eloquently put it, "kind of droopy".
    If they came out and said that, pretty much everyone would be disappointed and they would get destroyed for it. On the flip side if you asked Gopher fans if they would be ok with the team always being ranked in the top 25 but never cracking the top 15, I have to believe right now many of us would take that in a heartbeat. At some point people would get fed up with never cracking the big time but given our track record for a long time around here being in that 16-25 range every year would be a pretty massive accomplishment.

  15. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by short ornery norwegian View Post

    Here's a different question - If the Gophers won a national title, but it turned out they violated NCAA rules to do it, would you be OK with that? Because that might be the only way a school like MN could win a championship.
    Interesting question. I think it would be viewed similar to the final 4 team under Clem. Was a blast at the time, and disappointing later when it was discovered they were breaking the rules. I know I would be disappointed to find out they cheated to get to the top.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •