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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gophers_4life View Post
    They don't need supplements. Real food is plenty good.

    Rather, would suspect for these big time programs, smaller supplement brands practically beg these teams to take pallets of free crap, just so the brand can say "we're affiliated with Clemson football", etc.

    Team assumes it's just a protein shake, gives them out to players .... whoops!
    Supplements make an enormous difference. They make a huge difference for average joes like me, I couldn't imagine how big of a difference they make for high end athletes.


  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete smith View Post
    Every high school , junior college and D1 college that I have been associated with took supplements of some sort. The Clemenson coach is correct, unless you do an investigative study if each and every item,you really have to rely on the manufacturer to be correct as to the ingredients. It is sad in a way. Sometimes kids(and coaches) want to shortcut the process by using supplements rather “using” hard work. Sign of the times.
    Oh yeah, me and my high school football buddies were taking a whole bunch of stuff that's all banned now - Androstenedione, Ephedra, random "testosterone boosters". All from the GNC in the late 90s. None of us were D1 prospects.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Loblaw View Post
    Supplements make an enormous difference. They make a huge difference for average joes like me, I couldn't imagine how big of a difference they make for high end athletes.
    Very skeptical of your statement. You'll have to explain how/why supplements are making a big difference in your life that food can't do just as well. Beyond the laziness factor.

    Plus it's likely you're taking something that would be banned.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by MNVCGUY View Post
    The NCAA tests and provides lists of approved and banned substances to schools. For an NCAA school there is zero guesswork involved in terms of what supplements the players can and can not take.
    The NCAA gives a list of banned substances. I doubt they test every supplement product/brand that comes out on the market with a molecular analysis to determine if it contains any banned substances.

    But regardless, even if they did ...... the point is that the FDA does not regulate supplements. So the company can throw anything into any product at any time, as it pleases. There is no recourse. It's just buyer beware.

  5. #20

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    The list of banned substances is crazy long for athletes. One year I took a pre workout and it was perfectly fine, and then the next I happened to catch it on the list luckily. As most have pointed out its tough to know if labels are correct or not. It says on everything that you take that this product hasn't been certified. People can say you don't need to take any supplements, but when you have to get up at 5:30 every morning for workouts. A little pre-workout is very much needed.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by SM_25 View Post
    The list of banned substances is crazy long for athletes. One year I took a pre workout and it was perfectly fine, and then the next I happened to catch it on the list luckily. As most have pointed out its tough to know if labels are correct or not. It says on everything that you take that this product hasn't been certified. People can say you don't need to take any supplements, but when you have to get up at 5:30 every morning for workouts. A little pre-workout is very much needed.
    OK ... but for what purpose? As a stimulant? Coffee does that. Caffeine is actually the main active ingredient in a lot of these pre workout drinks. If it’s sometting other than caffeine, to get you “jacked” or whatever .... beware!!! Lot of that crap is banned.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gophers_4life View Post
    OK ... but for what purpose? As a stimulant? Coffee does that. Caffeine is actually the main active ingredient in a lot of these pre workout drinks. If it’s sometting other than caffeine, to get you “jacked” or whatever .... beware!!! Lot of that crap is banned.
    To be honest, most of the time you don't even have time to make coffee. Any extra minutes of sleep is golden. A lot of pre-workouts get the muscles going much faster than coffee, so by the time you get to the facility your muscles are ready to go and you're not dragging in your workout. Even caffeine at a dose past 500 MG could cause a failed drug test. As a college athlete, you need to be consistently looking at what you are taking if you don't want to be concerned about testing, which half of the athletes are not.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM_25 View Post
    To be honest, most of the time you don't even have time to make coffee. Any extra minutes of sleep is golden. A lot of pre-workouts get the muscles going much faster than coffee, so by the time you get to the facility your muscles are ready to go and you're not dragging in your workout. Even caffeine at a dose past 500 MG could cause a failed drug test. As a college athlete, you need to be consistently looking at what you are taking if you don't want to be concerned about testing, which half of the athletes are not.


    Caffeine is good, adderrall is better. Of course, it’s banned without a legitimate prescription. It can also contribute to dying under the right circumstances. Personally if I need to get amped reading Gopherhole is usually reliable for a shot of adrenaline to get me started.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post


    Caffeine is good, adderrall is better. Of course, it’s banned without a legitimate prescription. It can also contribute to dying under the right circumstances. Personally if I need to get amped reading Gopherhole is usually reliable for a shot of adrenaline to get me started.
    I'll agree that Gopherhole works just as well. It usually doesn't take to long reading posts to get that adrenaline rush either.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gophers_4life View Post
    The NCAA gives a list of banned substances. I doubt they test every supplement product/brand that comes out on the market with a molecular analysis to determine if it contains any banned substances.

    But regardless, even if they did ...... the point is that the FDA does not regulate supplements. So the company can throw anything into any product at any time, as it pleases. There is no recourse. It's just buyer beware.
    Which is why the schools make it very clear to the players what supplements they can take and if there is a new one they want to take they have it tested first.

    I agree that it is not well regulated and anything can happen my only contention was with Dabo trying to throw his staff under the bus. They have the means to make sure that what they give the players is legal so if they are not doing that they are idiots.

    These guys tried to get away with taking something extra and got busted. Unless it comes out that they were taking a supplement that was approved by the NCAA and it caused the failed test, the reality is almost certainly that they were taking something they were not supposed to and got caught.

  11. #26

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    Just out today: https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsr.../ucm626349.htm

    “This action is part of a broader effort we have underway to re-examine our resources and authorities related to products marketed as dietary supplements, and outline a new policy on how we intend to more vigorously fulfill our obligations to protect consumers from dangerous products and unlawful claims. We’ll have more to say on our policy efforts very soon. The bottom line is this: we’ve seen growing instances where profiteers are pushing potentially dangerous compounds – often with unproven drug claims and crossing the line when it comes to what defines a dietary supplement. These potentially illegal activities put the entire dietary supplement industry at risk by confusing consumers, harming patients and tainting good dietary supplement products by associating them with the activities of bad actors,” said FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, M.D.

    This is something that has been talked about forever ..... but suddenly, down comes the hammer. Is it possible that pissed off Clemson boosters got in people's ears about this and turned up the heat??

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by MNVCGUY View Post
    Unless it comes out that they were taking a supplement that was approved by the NCAA and it caused the failed test,
    I thought that's exactly what they were saying happened??

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNVCGUY View Post
    Which is why the schools make it very clear to the players what supplements they can take and if there is a new one they want to take they have it tested first.

    I agree that it is not well regulated and anything can happen my only contention was with Dabo trying to throw his staff under the bus. They have the means to make sure that what they give the players is legal so if they are not doing that they are idiots.

    These guys tried to get away with taking something extra and got busted. Unless it comes out that they were taking a supplement that was approved by the NCAA and it caused the failed test, the reality is almost certainly that they were taking something they were not supposed to and got caught.
    I don't believe the NCAA approves specific supplements - they provide a list of banned ingredients. The problem is, any company can randomly change ingredients without updating labels or letting anyone know.

    Regardless if the NCAA does or not, the scenario of manufacturers changing the recipe is what happened to Kevin and Pat Williams from the Vikings several years ago. They were taking StarCaps, a diuretic previously recommended by the NFL to lose weight. StarCaps had changed their recipe and not told anyone, both got busted and got suspended by the league for banned substance. During the appeal, they proved the substance was in the StarCaps and provided the letter recommending it from the NFL. Court ended up tossing the appeal, basically saying it was the players' responsibility under the CBA (also tried to say MN bans punishing someone for taking something legal but that got tossed as well).

    For those saying it couldn't be because it's only three players, couple thoughts:

    1. Most schools don't do 100% testing
    2. Not all players take the same supplements, especially if it's weight loss/weight gain type stuff
    3. It may have only been part of a bottle or mislabeled bottle(s). The manufacturer literally can fill a bottle partway with whatever's left from the last batch of pills and fill the rest with the desired product. Or can not time changing the labels with the actual change in product. Again, no FDA oversight, this is completely unregulated. I'm sure the players don't just get a pill a day. They're given a certain quantity at a time (week? month?), so it is distinctly possible they were given enough tainted pills in one of these scenarios to fail, yet nobody else did.

    I understand the most likely scenario is that they took something on their own and failed the test because of it. I'm just saying that's not the only possible scenario.

    I don't think Dabo was trying to throw his trainers under the bus, I think he's trying to help the kids and make it look like the school doesn't try to cheat.

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