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  1. #16
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    The argument revolves around concussions. Eliminating kickoffs - a small fraction of all plays - doesn’t really make a huge dent in the overall number of concussions and particularly the “micro-trauma” activists are concerned about. It’s a window dressing argument. If you buy into the idea we need to eliminate concussions and the micro traumas then the following should occur:

    -Eliminate linemen and/or players over 200 pounds.
    -Passes to MOF illegal. Keep them outside the hashes.
    -Two hand touch tackling or flag pull for linebackers and safeties vs running backs.
    -Two hand touch on quarterbacks.
    -Cut game times to one half. Running clock.
    Change to three instead of four downs to encourage passing
    Or best of all: the ball can only be kicked with feet, no tackling, no touching with hands. Touchdowns involve kicking the ball into a large net at each end of the field. No heading allowed. Faking injury is rewarded and encouraged.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_Buchanan View Post

    Do you have any data from the time period after the elimination of the wedge formation?

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by highwayman View Post
    There is no evidence that KO are any more dangerous that any other play.
    Liar

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post
    Do you have any data from the time period after the elimination of the wedge formation?
    I’ll look for some.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post
    The argument revolves around concussions.
    And it being a boring play with no strategy. It's a valid point, separating it from the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post
    Eliminating kickoffs - a small fraction of all plays - doesn’t really make a huge dent in the overall number of concussions
    Unsubstantiated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post
    If you buy into the idea we need to eliminate concussions and the micro traumas then the following should occur:

    -Eliminate linemen and/or players over 200 pounds.
    -Passes to MOF illegal. Keep them outside the hashes.
    -Two hand touch tackling or flag pull for linebackers and safeties vs running backs.
    -Two hand touch on quarterbacks.
    -Cut game times to one half. Running clock.
    Change to three instead of four downs to encourage passing
    None of this is true.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_Buchanan View Post
    Let me see. From 1996-2001, the NFL tracked every play to such an extent that they knew what type of play that players were injured on, got an immediate diagnosis of concussion, recorded this information, and had it readied for a future study. Amazingly, 20% of all concussions were on kick-offs!!!

    From 1996-2001.

    Anyone else see what I'm getting at?
    Gopher football fan since 1924. DNA-wise.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by highwayman View Post
    Anyone else see what I'm getting at?
    That you're a liar, who will deny and gaslight, in order to push the narrative you support? Yep, see it crystal clear.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_Buchanan View Post
    20% of concussions occurring on kickoff is pretty compelling.

    What shocked me was the reported .4 concussions/game statistic. That is far higher than I would have expected.

    Made me wonder about concussion risk at different levels. Did a bit of searching:

    High school football: 6.4 concussions per 10,000 “exposures.”

    http://prevacus.com/concussions-101/statistics/

    College football: 81 injuries per 10,000 “exposures,” of which 7.4% are concussions. That implies 6 concussions per 10,000 “exposures.”

    https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/f...Injury_WEB.pdf

    (Note: I am assuming, but do not know, that the definition of “exposure” was consistent in these sources. Hence the quotation marks. This has nothing to do with the donation/“donation” controversy.)

    Not sure how to convert .4 concussions/NFL game to concussions per 10,000 “exposures,” but that appears to be a much higher rate than college or high school football. If, for example, 100 players were in a game, and appearance in a game counted as an “exposure,” that is something like 40 per 10,000 exposures. Far higher than college or high school football.

    Feel free to correct my math, and if necessary, to call it “math.”

  9. #24
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    My guess is eliminating kickoffs for this league is more about pace of play than injuries. A kickoff results in a touchback now most of the time and wastes a lot of time. This leagues reduced the play clock to 35 seconds and there are no TV timeouts. Games are expected to take about 2 1/2 hours. It's a great plan.

    They're certainly letting the QB's get hit. I liked what I saw last night from the league. It has a chance to be successful.




    Thought this was cool too.



  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrC View Post
    20% of concussions occurring on kickoff is pretty compelling.
    If the NFL tracked every play to such an extent that they knew what type of play that players were injured on, got an immediate diagnosis of concussion, recorded this information, and had it readied for a future study. Starting 22 years ago.

    Which they didn't. Made up isn't "math". Fake numbers used with real numbers = fake numbers.
    Gopher football fan since 1924. DNA-wise.

  11. #26
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    Considering 65% of collegiate concussions occur in contact sports other than football the list of dangerous sports is fairly lengthy. Thankfully we’ve not yet reached a point as a society we label concussion sufferers as doomed to mood disorders, neurodegenerative disease, or early deaths. Probably because the best data available doesn’t support those findings in former collegiate players.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by highwayman View Post
    If the NFL tracked every play to such an extent that they knew what type of play that players were injured on, got an immediate diagnosis of concussion, recorded this information, and had it readied for a future study. Starting 22 years ago.

    Which they didn't. Made up isn't "math". Fake numbers used with real numbers = fake numbers.
    Having a bit of trouble following. Are you saying that the authors of the study fabricated the data? That the NFL did not collect the data?

    Here is a quote directly from the study: "During 2002-2007, concussions were recorded by NFL team physicians and athletic trainers using the same standardized reporting form used from 1996 to 2001. Player position, type of play, concussion signs and symptoms, loss of consciousness, and medical action taken were recorded."

    Are you saying you know the above is not true? How do you know?

    Or maybe I have missed your point?

    Thanks.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompous Elitist View Post
    Considering 65% of collegiate concussions occur in contact sports other than football the list of dangerous sports is fairly lengthy. Thankfully we’ve not yet reached a point as a society we label concussion sufferers as doomed to mood disorders, neurodegenerative disease, or early deaths. Probably because the best data available doesn’t support those findings in former collegiate players.
    I assume the source of the statistic is this:

    https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/f...1_20160217.pdf

    A pretty interesting document. Shows that the highest rate of concussions (perhaps the best indicator of risk) is in wrestling. Football is no. 2, before a drop to men’s ice hockey, women’s field hockey, and so on.

    The rest of the document shows a problem-solving approach to the issue, regardless of the sport involved. Rather that argue that any one sport is good or bad, it focuses on protocols and procedures for all athletes.

    I think an argument could be made that if kickoffs lead to 20% of concussions, a rule change might be worthy of consideration. Rule changes to promote player safety are nothing new. Perhaps a rule change could reduce the incidence of concussion in wrestling as well. But I suspect the the most effective way to reduce CTE, regardless of sport, is the kind of protocols described in the link. As research continues, no doubt the protocols will be improved. Hopefully these protocols, which are a long way from “he got his bell rung,” will be the primary method of reducing CTE over the long term.
    Last edited by MrC; 02-10-2019 at 07:57 PM.

  14. #29

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    I've always felt that the receivers get clobbered more than the kick returners. Its a dangerous game much like hockey can be as well.

  15. #30

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    What about onside kicks then.....there would be no chance if a team is behind two scores late in the game.

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