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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethomasp31 View Post
    Were any of you guys posting on here even fans of the Gophers when Clem became coach? It seems that some important information is being missed in this post. Clem took over a program that was as bleak as it's ever been in Minnesota Gopher history. The year before we had to forfeit a Big 10 game and played another where 5 guys played all but 2 minutes of the game. Dutcher had resigned in the middle of the year and three players were dismissed from the team because of the scandal in Madison. Because of this, Clem's first two years we won a total of 6 games in the B1G. The team and program was gutted. In his 3rd coach at Minnesota, Clem got the team to the Sweet 16, losing to Duke is my memory serves me correctly. That year, the Big 10 was loaded, with Michigan, Indiana and Illinois all being top 10 teams, with Michigan winning the tournament, beating Illinois in the Final Four. That was in an era when the Big 10 was at it's peak as a top basketball conference. The next year the Gophers were within a basket of making the Final Four....losing to Georgia Tech 93-91. To try and compare the position Pitino has this team in to the place Clem had the team in after 5 years is one of the most laughable things I have seen on Gopherhole. I have no problem giving Pitino another year if we make the NCAA tournament, but don't compare the coaching job he has done to the coaching job Clem did at the beginning of his tenure at Minnesota.
    This site didn't exist. But I was around and a season ticket holder. I remember it well. Clem took over a program in dire straits- no doubt about it. The advantage to that is that he was under no pressure to win right away and he got left a borderline great recruiting class by Dutcher (Newbern, Burton and Schick). Pitino took over the total opposite. Some pretty decent older players but zero young recruits. Therefore it was logical that Pitino's bottom out year was going to be year three when he had to bring in young kids to replace. So both Clem and Pitino had their 2-16 year to deal with but for different reasons and at different times. If I were a new coach in a position- I'd have preferred the situation Clem took over: start from scratch and build from the bottom. Pitino made the mistake of thinking he could win right away and he brought in transfers and took wild swings and 5 stars and missed. Youthful error and it cost him.


  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethomasp31 View Post
    Like I said, you don't change coaches if the Gophers make the tournament this year. But if you hire the correct coach, we still have a good shot at the 2020 recruits from Minnesota. I can't prove it, but had the Gophers hired Flip or Hoiberg when they fired Tubby, I think we would have gotten at least two of the big four who were juniors at the time (Tyus, Macura, Travis and Vaughn). Pitino hasn't recruited Minnesota very well, that has been the problem. That said, if we somehow get Hurt, there is no way he is going anywhere.
    This is simply not true. How many Minnesota players would you like on this team before you would say differently?
    Winasota Gopher now takes me seriously.....you should too.

  3. #33
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    Pitino isn't a bad coach / program builder, nor is he a great coach. He's somewhere in between. If people want to realize the kind of success Wisconsin has had, Minnesota will have to continue to kiss frogs until they find a great coach. If the last 5+ years satisfies you, then you got what you want.

    I agree with the opinions that comparing Richard and Clem at this point is their respective tenures is ludicrous, and bga should feel ashamed for that intellectual deception/dishonesty. We began with our Gopher season tickets because of Clem and the back-to-back Sweet Sixteen / Final Eight runs. We would never have signed aboard a ship that was drifting in and out of marginal success like the program is today. I'll never forget the excitement of those days in the 90s, even though it's been tainted by the cheating, and the reason I and my wife continue with our subscription is in the hope that the program will return to that level of success someday and we can feel those thrills again - obviously as part of a clean program, which the Badgers and many other schools comparable to ours have proven is possible.

  4. #34
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    I like Pitino. But this is a put up or shut up year. So far, so good. The next 10 games will decide his fate. The status of the recruiting for next year is also a concern.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by howeda7 View Post
    I like Pitino. But this is a put up or shut up year. So far, so good. The next 10 games will decide his fate. The status of the recruiting for next year is also a concern.
    Pitino's not fat so the Snake can't fault him for that...

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethomasp31 View Post
    Like I said, you don't change coaches if the Gophers make the tournament this year. But if you hire the correct coach, we still have a good shot at the 2020 recruits from Minnesota. I can't prove it, but had the Gophers hired Flip or Hoiberg when they fired Tubby, I think we would have gotten at least two of the big four who were juniors at the time (Tyus, Macura, Travis and Vaughn). Pitino hasn't recruited Minnesota very well, that has been the problem. That said, if we somehow get Hurt, there is no way he is going anywhere.
    I think this is a huge stretch
    The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by short ornery norwegian View Post
    My biggest issue or concern with Pitino is the lack of consistency on offense. Every game, without fail, the Gophers fall into an offensive black hole for 5 or 6 minutes, where they look like they've never played or practiced together. when they get into these funks, almost every possession, they run the shot clock down and someone either throws up a bad 3-pt shot, or we get a kamikaze drive to the basket.

    I assume they work on these things in practice - but it doesn't seem to show up on the court, and that perplexes me. Look, nobody's perfect. every team is going to have bad possessions. But the Gophers just seem to have more of them, and they still crap their pants against a zone more often than not.

    maybe the players are just as dumb as a rock. But some of that is on the coaches, too - because whatever they're doing in practice doesn't seem to translate to the game.

    That's relatively common in a lot of college basketball

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfing18now View Post
    This is simply not true. How many Minnesota players would you like on this team before you would say differently?
    Thank you! He's gotten every relevant high major MN player in 2015, 2016, and 2018*. That's three of the five years (2017 and 2019 being the "bad" ones, we could get into why those happened but it's not worth rehashing for the billionth time) where he's absolutely cleaned up on in-state recruiting.


    **except Tre Jones who followed his older brother to the place where he won a natty, making it basically an impossible get.
    Listen to Taken All Wrong podcast.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Gopher View Post
    Pitino isn't a bad coach / program builder, nor is he a great coach. He's somewhere in between. If people want to realize the kind of success Wisconsin has had, Minnesota will have to continue to kiss frogs until they find a great coach. If the last 5+ years satisfies you, then you got what you want.

    I agree with the opinions that comparing Richard and Clem at this point is their respective tenures is ludicrous, and bga should feel ashamed for that intellectual deception/dishonesty. We began with our Gopher season tickets because of Clem and the back-to-back Sweet Sixteen / Final Eight runs. We would never have signed aboard a ship that was drifting in and out of marginal success like the program is today. I'll never forget the excitement of those days in the 90s, even though it's been tainted by the cheating, and the reason I and my wife continue with our subscription is in the hope that the program will return to that level of success someday and we can feel those thrills again - obviously as part of a clean program, which the Badgers and many other schools comparable to ours have proven is possible.
    I don't think changing coaches every few years is the path either


    I realize you can't stick with a guy just for continuity, but program restart will only lead to more program restarts

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by salzie View Post
    I don't think changing coaches every few years is the path either


    I realize you can't stick with a guy just for continuity, but program restart will only lead to more program restarts
    You go with "irrational fear of the unknown" and I'll go with "keep trying," and we'll compare outcomes after a period of time. That goes for any undertaking or enterprise.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by bga1 View Post
    This site didn't exist. But I was around and a season ticket holder. I remember it well. Clem took over a program in dire straits- no doubt about it. The advantage to that is that he was under no pressure to win right away and he got left a borderline great recruiting class by Dutcher (Newbern, Burton and Schick). Pitino took over the total opposite. Some pretty decent older players but zero young recruits. Therefore it was logical that Pitino's bottom out year was going to be year three when he had to bring in young kids to replace. So both Clem and Pitino had their 2-16 year to deal with but for different reasons and at different times. If I were a new coach in a position- I'd have preferred the situation Clem took over: start from scratch and build from the bottom. Pitino made the mistake of thinking he could win right away and he brought in transfers and took wild swings and 5 stars and missed. Youthful error and it cost him.
    Clem took over at a time when the conference that was way better than the B1G is now. I was at Luther College at the time and all we did was watch and play basketball, especially in January. Iowa had Marble, Horton, BJ Armstrong, Bullard, Lohous and many others. Indiana won the NCAA's with Alford and later had Cheaney and Damon Bailey. Illinois was loaded, Michigan had Glenn Rice and a little later the Fab 5. The conference wasn't watered down with Nebraska, Penn State and Rutgers. It was the Golden Era of the conference for basketball. Actually, it was still when college basketball was in it's Golden Era. The Barn was rocking when Clem was here! It was the best ticket in town! I remember sitting under a staircase with my back to the hockey arena, driving up from Decorah in the middle of the week, barely able to see the floor, but I was at a Gopher basketball game. Pitino has accomplished nothing compared to what Clem accomplished in his first five years in the program. Like i have said, i don't think he will be fired after this season, and I don't think he should be fired if we make the tournament. But Clem brought excitement to the Barn, and what Pitino and Clem did their first five years isn't even in the same ballpark.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethomasp31 View Post
    Like I said, you don't change coaches if the Gophers make the tournament this year. But if you hire the correct coach, we still have a good shot at the 2020 recruits from Minnesota. I can't prove it, but had the Gophers hired Flip or Hoiberg when they fired Tubby, I think we would have gotten at least two of the big four who were juniors at the time (Tyus, Macura, Travis and Vaughn). Pitino hasn't recruited Minnesota very well, that has been the problem. That said, if we somehow get Hurt, there is no way he is going anywhere.
    Tyus was never going to come here regardless of coach. Travis was more likely to come here after the pitino hiring, but pitino simply didn't have enough time. Macura never wanted to be a gopher, he wanted a badger offer which he never got(Badgers Lakeville North pipeline is strong, big booster in that community), and i believe Vaughn would have been a gopher had the coaching change never happened, he had a very good relationship with that staff, and had Rodney in his ear about committing to that staff.
    Last edited by GuyFawkes; 01-31-2019 at 01:06 PM.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyGopher View Post
    I think this is a huge stretch
    I don't....I thought we had Travis the way it is....and if we had gotten Hoiberg i think there would have been a good chance we would have gotten Macura and possibly even Tyus.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethomasp31 View Post
    I don't....I thought we had Travis the way it is....and if we had gotten Hoiberg i think there would have been a good chance we would have gotten Macura and possibly even Tyus.
    Maybe but it's impossible to know.

    My biggest problem with the teams under Pitino is the lack of consistently. One game they look like they could beat just about anyone and then the next they look like they'd rather be doing just about anything other than playing basketball. Having bad games is going to happen but looking disinterested, unorganized, etc. shouldn't happen. The team is talented, if they're more consistent they can win a lot of games.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by GophersInIowa View Post
    Maybe but it's impossible to know.

    My biggest problem with the teams under Pitino is the lack of consistently. One game they look like they could beat just about anyone and then the next they look like they'd rather be doing just about anything other than playing basketball. Having bad games is going to happen but looking disinterested, unorganized, etc. shouldn't happen. The team is talented, if they're more consistent they can win a lot of games.
    Almost every college basketball fanbase says this. When this program hasn't dealt with suspensions or mass injuries, we are consistently a top 40 program. That's pretty good in my opinion. If the Gophers can have back to back good seasons, I think Pitino can establish a perennial top 25 program

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