Pitino and the state of the program

That point was reached long ago and the coach is too stubborn do change. Tubby did the same thing when Nolen got hurt and he insisted that Hoffarber play PG. But his only alternative was a freshman Maverick, so you can at least sympathize that he was probably screwed either way. This is just pure stubbornness. And the fact that we only have one good shooter on the team is indeed Pitino's fault.

Still sticking with "12-8 minimum"?

He is also being stubborn in not playing Matz more over Curry. Matz was better earlier in the season than Curry is now. Curry is simply not close to 100%. Unfortunately, he's treating Matz much like he treated Elliot when he was a senior and there's a good chance that Matz's confidence and abilities have deteriorated sitting on the bench for all of those games.
 

Circling back to one of the themes of this thread, I feel like I could scout and recruit for Wisconsin. I know exactly what they do, how they do it, what they need, and how they'll use them. On the other hand, if I were told to recruit for Minnesota, I wouldn't know where to start except - as 60s Guy said - get a list of the top 200 players and see who might consider coming here, and then we'll sort them out once they get here.

Well said. We more or less practice fantasy league style recruiting.
 

Overall I would define Pitino as an above average recruiter and a below average X's and O's coach.

He is an above average recruiter for D1 basketball but any Big Ten coach should be an above average recruiter when compared to overall recruiting in D1 basketball. He is not an above average recruiter for the Big Ten. He has to be compared to his competitors and compared to them he is average at best.
 

He is also being stubborn in not playing Matz more over Curry. Matz was better earlier in the season than Curry is now. Curry is simply not close to 100%. Unfortunately, he's treating Matz much like he treated Elliot when he was a senior and there's a good chance that Matz's confidence and abilities have deteriorated sitting on the bench for all of those games.

I think there is a little recency bias in this. I thought Curry looked pretty good until last night. He definitely appears to have re-injured something.
 

I don't know how you can't say it's not Pitino's fault. IMO, Happ is the best player on either team. After that, I would take Murphy, Coffey and Oturu over anyone on Wisky's team. I think we are more talented, and he fails to get the most out of his players. We look completely incoherent on offense and any success we have is due largely to the players individual abilities to score and not due to running a competent offensive scheme. I'm more than ready to end the Richard Pitino era...

The Gophers may have better "athletes" - but the Wisconsin players know their roles, and play their roles on the team. give me a good role player who does his job over an "athlete" who is up and down from game to game. That is what some of us have been saying about Pitino and the lack of an identity. Wisconsin's approach works with the right athletes. We're still waiting to see what pieces are necessary to make Pitino's approach work - and whether he can acquire those pieces.
 


For the season, the Gophs are #319 out of 353 teams in 3pt FG %. Over the last 3, we are 350 out of 353. Simply a fact and obviously a problem. A good shooting night from 3 is an anomaly and should not be counted on this year. Need a consistent counter to this obvious deficiency to win consistently.
 

I think there is a little recency bias in this. I thought Curry looked pretty good until last night. He definitely appears to have re-injured something.

Perhaps but I think he's shown a lack of confidence (perhaps due to physical limitations) of going to the basket in a number of recent games. He's deferring and passing off too much.
 

For the record, Duke is #308 on the same stat. MN has been able to effectively counter this by getting to the line a lot. Duke has countered by getting tons of dunks and easy 2s (Duke shoots 59% on 2pt attempts). MN seems to suffer when we do not get to the line or we do not make them when we get there. If threes are dropping we are okay, if not -- if we get to the line and make them we are okay. Otherwise, we have a tough time keeping pace.
 

I like Pitino and support him but would support moving on from him at this point. This clearly isn't where we want to be right now. Coupled with his having to hit the transfer market this much signals he isn't building this program the way it should in year 6. I just do not have a good feeling we can consistently compete this way.


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I do agree, for the most part. But on the other hand, one characteristic of coaching matters a great deal in a game like this: playing smart and mistake-free to the greatest extent. Besides the shooting situation, the Badgers made fewer mistakes and made more good decisions. I can only remember one or two bad shots they took. Meanwhile, whether it's a small mistake (Gabe passing to Murphy on the fast break instead of taking it himself and letting Jordan rebound) or a big mistake (Murphy trying the exact same high-low pass to Oturu a second time after it resulted in a turnover the first time), the smarter team is going to win that type of game almost every time. That does reflect on the coaching staff's ability to teach situations and judgment on the fly.

Michigan State turns the ball over more than anyone in the league (13.6 per game). Great coach. This group of players has had trouble with that aspect. Pitino has slashers- not shooters. You turn the ball over and make more mistakes doing that then shooting jumpers. But...you can get to the foul line a lot and accomplish other things with drives to the bucket. The best teams have the ability to do both and we have not shown that.
 

Not only do we have a more talented roster, we also have a far more athletic roster. How do you allow yourself to be pulled into the pace of play that wisconsin dictates? That's asking to lose. We should have been playing 10+ guys and running up and down the floor.

It depends on what you mean by more talented. The Badgers have a good deal more skill than the Gophers, and most of their players have quick feet, or they wouldn't have recruited them to play defense with their feet. We have some slow-footed players (e.g. Hurt).
 

For the season, the Gophs are #319 out of 353 teams in 3pt FG %. Over the last 3, we are 350 out of 353. Simply a fact and obviously a problem. A good shooting night from 3 is an anomaly and should not be counted on this year. Need a consistent counter to this obvious deficiency to win consistently.

Taking a look at just Big Ten play....

They are now 55-189 -- 29%
When they win they are 35-97 -- 36%
When they lose they are 20-92 -- 22%

Bottom line- 36% is probably an average shooting team maybe a little better. All we have to do is shoot decent from the 3 point line and we are really tough to beat. Even with this roster we should be able to shoot in the mid 30% range- some of these guys are just ice cold and it is in their head. Even Kalscheur who is a really good shooter has only shot 32% in Big Ten games. Guards- Coffey, McBrayer, Washington are all in the 20's.

Ouch
 

I think there is a little recency bias in this. I thought Curry looked pretty good until last night. He definitely appears to have re-injured something.

Curry played like crap against Purdue as well.
 




I thought Curry would be more muscular having had to not play in so long. I was suprised he looks the same size he did as a freshmen. He looks small guarding centers.
 



Not only do we have a more talented roster, we also have a far more athletic roster. How do you allow yourself to be pulled into the pace of play that wisconsin dictates? That's asking to lose. We should have been playing 10+ guys and running up and down the floor.

The purpose of playing pack line defense is to give a less athletic team a shot to be competent on defense. Pack line defense is running a ball control offense is almost impossible to pick up the pace unless you jump to a big lead right away.
 

I think there is a little recency bias in this. I thought Curry looked pretty good until last night. He definitely appears to have re-injured something.

Curry has been awful on defense all year.
His best moments are better than matz’ best moments, but if he doesn’t have it going on offense Omursa is just as good as him.
Mediocre rebounder and awful defender
 

That point was reached long ago and the coach is too stubborn do change. Tubby did the same thing when Nolen got hurt and he insisted that Hoffarber play PG. But his only alternative was a freshman Maverick, so you can at least sympathize that he was probably screwed either way. This is just pure stubbornness. And the fact that we only have one good shooter on the team is indeed Pitino's fault.

Still sticking with "12-8 minimum"?

It's Pitino sticking with a better defender over a better offensive player. It's not stubborn except for when we struggle on offense. Wisconsins defensive system is very hard for IW to be successful in until his shot becomes more consistent or we have more high % shooters around him. I was more interested in seeing Stull or Hurt play honestly. Hurts ability to find gaps and cut and Stull has the ability to catch fire and hit shots.
 
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That's the wrong way to look at it. Whether or not to fire Pitino, and who we would hire to replace him, are two completely separate decisions. If the evaluation is that Pitino isn't performing the job at an acceptable level, he needs to be fired. If we miss the Tournament (again), and Pitino is retained, we're sending the message that 1 appearance in 6 seasons is acceptable at Minnesota. I personally don't feel that production is acceptable here regardless of the coach's last name.

I'm stating that I don't want to change for the sake of change. Replacing Pitino with someone more incompetent will not solve things. Now I think there are guys out there that could be good, but there is no sure bet in my eyes that we can get at this time.
 

It's Pitino sticking with a better defender over a better offensive player. It's not stubborn except for when we struggle on offense. Wisconsins defensive system is very hard for IW to be successful in until his **** becomes more consistent or we have more high % shooters around him. I was more interested in seeing Stull or Hurt play honestly. Hurts ability to find gaps and cut and Stull has the ability to catch fire and hit shots.

By saying you want stull or hurt you are losing all credibility as a basketball mind.
Stull and hurt are that deadly combo of players who aren’t good at offense, defense, or intangibles
 

By saying you want stull or hurt you are losing all credibility as a basketball mind.
Stull and hurt are that deadly combo of players who aren’t good at offense, defense, or intangibles

I'm ok with not having credibility on this board as a strong basketball mind. With McBrayer not hitting shots and the pace of the game being what it was, I felt they could maybe bring something. I'm not saying give them 30 minutes or even 15, but we needed a spark and guys were getting open looks. No one was hitting them. You are right that their liabilities would warrant being careful about who else they are in with. Stull played when we beat them at the Kohl center. I'm don't think arguing for more Washington last night was the answer imo.
 

I'm stating that I don't want to change for the sake of change. Replacing Pitino with someone more incompetent will not solve things. Now I think there are guys out there that could be good, but there is no sure bet in my eyes that we can get at this time.

What would you say if Mike Rhoades would take the job ?
 

What would you say if Mike Rhoades would take the job ?

I don't know enough about him. Does he run Havoc? I'm not interested in that. Seems to win, would need to bring in local assistants since it seems he doesn't have any background in the Midwest. Like his D numbers on KenPom
 

What would you say if Mike Rhoades would take the job ?

Maybe he makes my interview list but I think Musselman has the most passion to offer for Gopher basketball of any candidate. Following his dad's footsteps...I think he'd grind to make it happen here.
Alford, while not popular would be an excellent choice. Wins more than Rhoades and has a better recruiting name. All the Hoiberg NBA things fit for Alford too.
I have many questions for Hoiberg...depending on his answers he could be good....maybe best but there are a quite a few unknowns...he seems like a gamble.
I'm open to others but I think Musselman would bring unparalleled passion.
 

I don't know enough about him. Does he run Havoc? I'm not interested in that. Seems to win, would need to bring in local assistants since it seems he doesn't have any background in the Midwest. Like his D numbers on KenPom

Not Havoc. He would bring his own staff. Has a self assured presence. Really bright. Has strong relationships. Would not overate the local angle. Guy can flat out coach and develop.
 

Not Havoc. He would bring his own staff. Has a self assured presence. Really bright. Has strong relationships. Would not overate the local angle. Guy can flat out coach and develop.

Yeah I'd be interested for sure. I think having Midwest ties helps get you in the the living rooms for kidsthat would want to or would like MN. Not many southern kids like it understandably. Having a good staff is so undervalued. Bo having guys like Jeter and Gard for so many year s helped him at Sconnie (I know Bo teaches well too). This is the first time I've been excited about Pitinos assistants. I liked Ben, not a big Conroy or Kimani guy. Don't know enough of Lindsted yet, but I like the potential
 
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Maybe he makes my interview list but I think Musselman has the most passion to offer for Gopher basketball of any candidate. Following his dad's footsteps...I think he'd grind to make it happen here.
Alford, while not popular would be an excellent choice. Wins more than Rhoades and has a better recruiting name. All the Hoiberg NBA things fit for Alford too.
I have many questions for Hoiberg...depending on his answers he could be good....maybe best but there are a quite a few unknowns...he seems like a gamble.
I'm open to others but I think Musselman would bring unparalleled passion.

Musselman ain't leaving the west coast most likely. I see him at USC if that opens up. We had our shot at his years ago and missed that boat. He's waiting for the right PAC 12 job. If UCLA keep saying striking out he may end up there. USC would be another interesting job for him if it opens up.
 

Yeah I'd be interested for sure. I think having Midwest ties helps get you I need the living rooms for kidsthat want or would like MN. Not many southern kids like it understandably. Having a good staff is so undervalued. Bo having guys like Jeter and Gard for so many year s helped him at Sconnie (I know Bo teaches well too). This is the first time I've been excited about Pitinos assistants. I liked Ben, not a big Conroe or Kimani guy. Don't know enough of Lindsted yet.

Bo also had Tony Bennett on staff who delivered Devin Harris, Alando Tucker and his carryovers in Kirk Penney (New Zealand connection ) Wilkinson. That is a ton to start with. I brought up Rhoades because coaches everywhere are talking about him and because the word on the west coast is that Muss and the misses want no part of moving to Minnesota and want to stay out west. Not saying he is my first choice but Coyle knows all about him.
 




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