Pitino and the state of the program

Tubby
8-10
9-9
9-9
6-12
6-12
8-10

Pretty exciting eh?

He had bad luck with the Mbakwe year- no doubt and also with Royce White. That's what a 2 million plus coach who has a Hall of Fame resume did here. So we hired a 30 year old for half the price and expected him to blow the HOF coach's record away? No. We hired the 30 year old because we were going for a program that would improve in the long run. I think we are on the edge of that, but it is reasonable to say otherwise.

I want to believe this but if they slip off the bubble and don't make the tournament and the recruiting ends up being substandard my confidence will be gone.
 

Recruiting has a lot to do with how I view the state of the program. We're going to miss out on Hurt. Whatever, it sucks, but I'll live with that. However, if no less than three of Dainja, Suggs, Garcia, Holmgren, Walton and Carlson are wearing Minnesota uniforms, I will be beyond ready to get rid of Pitino. If only one or two come, that's a bad sign. Part of a successful program is getting local kids to be excited about gophers basketball and wanting to play for the hometown BIG team.

I understand not all will want to play in Minneapolis-some want to get away from family and Zeke Njaji wanted to play somewhere warm; I get that. But look at the number of Indiana kids on Indiana and the number of Michigan kids playing for Michigan State.

Looking back at the last four recruiting cycles of Minnesota basketball players....who did we "miss" on? The Minnesota talent is good but it isn't final four worthy as many on this board have suggested. According to 247sports composite rankings.

2015 -- would be our seniors this year
1. Alex Illikainen -- out of basketball, not a miss
2. Jarvis Johnson --- Gophers signee, unfortunate circumstance
3. Sacar Anim -- 6.1 PPG for career at Marquette a miss?
4. Justin Dahl -- 2.0 PPG at Northern Iowa not a miss
5. Kyle McKinley -- 0.2 PPG at Louisian Tech currently not a miss

2016 -- our junior class this year
1. Amir Coffey -- already a Gopher
2. Michael Hurt -- already a Gopher
3. Brock Bertram -- 1.1 PPG, 0.6 RPG at Buffalo
4. Reed Nikko -- 2.5 PPG at Missouri
5. nobody else even worth mentioning

2017 -- our sophomore class this year
1. Jericho Sims -- 4.2 PPG in 14.0 minutes per game at Texas
2. Nate Reuvers -- 8.3 PPG and 3.0 RPG at Wisconsin, probably the one guy on this list I would like to have the most
3. Brad Davison -- 11.3 PPG at Wisconsin, nice player
4. Race Thompson -- has played a total of 4 minutes at Indiana
5. Theo John -- 6.0 PPG at Marquette

2018 -- our freshman class
1. Tre Jones -- as has been pointed out a million times on this forum, top 20/25 recruits rarely stay home. they go blue blood. they just do.
2. Daniel Oturu -- already on Minnesota
3. Jarvis Omersa -- already on Minnesota
4. Gabe Kascheur -- already on Minnesota
5. Adam Trapp -- does he even play? South Dakota School of Mines??
6. Joe Hedstrom -- redshirt project at Wisconsin

I understand the 2020 class has some nice players. Even five or six years we have a class like that. However, in the last four years, how many Minnesota recruits did we miss on? It's one of the most over-used excuses for why we can't win here. Pitino has recruited Minnesota players as well as expected, imo. None of the "misses" above would have transformed this team to a Big Ten champion.
 

Looking back at the last four recruiting cycles of Minnesota basketball players....who did we "miss" on? The Minnesota talent is good but it isn't final four worthy as many on this board have suggested. According to 247sports composite rankings.

2015 -- would be our seniors this year
1. Alex Illikainen -- out of basketball, not a miss
2. Jarvis Johnson --- Gophers signee, unfortunate circumstance
3. Sacar Anim -- 6.1 PPG for career at Marquette a miss?
4. Justin Dahl -- 2.0 PPG at Northern Iowa not a miss
5. Kyle McKinley -- 0.2 PPG at Louisian Tech currently not a miss

2016 -- our junior class this year
1. Amir Coffey -- already a Gopher
2. Michael Hurt -- already a Gopher
3. Brock Bertram -- 1.1 PPG, 0.6 RPG at Buffalo
4. Reed Nikko -- 2.5 PPG at Missouri
5. nobody else even worth mentioning

2017 -- our sophomore class this year
1. Jericho Sims -- 4.2 PPG in 14.0 minutes per game at Texas
2. Nate Reuvers -- 8.3 PPG and 3.0 RPG at Wisconsin, probably the one guy on this list I would like to have the most
3. Brad Davison -- 11.3 PPG at Wisconsin, nice player
4. Race Thompson -- has played a total of 4 minutes at Indiana
5. Theo John -- 6.0 PPG at Marquette

2018 -- our freshman class
1. Tre Jones -- as has been pointed out a million times on this forum, top 20/25 recruits rarely stay home. they go blue blood. they just do.
2. Daniel Oturu -- already on Minnesota
3. Jarvis Omersa -- already on Minnesota
4. Gabe Kascheur -- already on Minnesota
5. Adam Trapp -- does he even play? South Dakota School of Mines??
6. Joe Hedstrom -- redshirt project at Wisconsin

I understand the 2020 class has some nice players. Even five or six years we have a class like that. However, in the last four years, how many Minnesota recruits did we miss on? It's one of the most over-used excuses for why we can't win here. Pitino has recruited Minnesota players as well as expected, imo. None of the "misses" above would have transformed this team to a Big Ten champion.

Great post. Dozens and dozens of schools have said if we kept so and so home we would be a powerhouse. Kids are now at least two generations removed via ESPN covering out of state schools that win. I see Duke etc.. hats all over high schools everywhere, all over AAU no matter where i go and rarely see the Gopher stuff. Kids have dream schools and dream coaches so your right, top kids almost always go elsewhere. Pitino has not missed on Minnesota kids, he has missed on national players for the same reason other schools miss. We have plenty of talent on this team.
 

Looking back at the last four recruiting cycles of Minnesota basketball players....who did we "miss" on? The Minnesota talent is good but it isn't final four worthy as many on this board have suggested. According to 247sports composite rankings.

2015 -- would be our seniors this year
1. Alex Illikainen -- out of basketball, not a miss
2. Jarvis Johnson --- Gophers signee, unfortunate circumstance
3. Sacar Anim -- 6.1 PPG for career at Marquette a miss?
4. Justin Dahl -- 2.0 PPG at Northern Iowa not a miss
5. Kyle McKinley -- 0.2 PPG at Louisian Tech currently not a miss

2016 -- our junior class this year
1. Amir Coffey -- already a Gopher
2. Michael Hurt -- already a Gopher
3. Brock Bertram -- 1.1 PPG, 0.6 RPG at Buffalo
4. Reed Nikko -- 2.5 PPG at Missouri
5. nobody else even worth mentioning

2017 -- our sophomore class this year
1. Jericho Sims -- 4.2 PPG in 14.0 minutes per game at Texas
2. Nate Reuvers -- 8.3 PPG and 3.0 RPG at Wisconsin, probably the one guy on this list I would like to have the most
3. Brad Davison -- 11.3 PPG at Wisconsin, nice player
4. Race Thompson -- has played a total of 4 minutes at Indiana
5. Theo John -- 6.0 PPG at Marquette

2018 -- our freshman class
1. Tre Jones -- as has been pointed out a million times on this forum, top 20/25 recruits rarely stay home. they go blue blood. they just do.
2. Daniel Oturu -- already on Minnesota
3. Jarvis Omersa -- already on Minnesota
4. Gabe Kascheur -- already on Minnesota
5. Adam Trapp -- does he even play? South Dakota School of Mines??
6. Joe Hedstrom -- redshirt project at Wisconsin

I understand the 2020 class has some nice players. Even five or six years we have a class like that. However, in the last four years, how many Minnesota recruits did we miss on? It's one of the most over-used excuses for why we can't win here. Pitino has recruited Minnesota players as well as expected, imo. None of the "misses" above would have transformed this team to a Big Ten champion.


2017 Wright

Four spots for 2019 and lots of misses.

Nnaji
Wahl
Terry
Probably Hurt
Roddy
 
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the story I heard was Kris wanted to go to Duke, Duke's players told Coach K "no way" after Kris' official visit. Then it became who Kris' dad could bully the most. Monson was it

Wanted to? Wasn't he committed there and was let out for "family reasons"?
 


LOL - "real world" apparently means to pretend that all the bad things didn't happen and then substitute the imagined best-case scenario for what really happened. You can't make it up.

Lots of this going on with the Pitino era by a segment of posters.

I actually get it. Pitino is a likable guy, good quote and does seem to be genuine in his liking it at the U.

What I can’t get over more than the abysmal conference record is we are nearing the end of year 6 and no one can tell what the identity of this program is. What is it that Pitino has done here that have some believing the Gophers are on the cusp of greatness?

How much time should Pitino get? For me if he doesn’t make the tourney this year his time should be up.


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I was still a 75% Tubby supporter when he was fired.... but I still think Pitino will be better here than Tubby ever was.

heck, if Dan Monson can recruit Humpreys ….

If Dan Monson was able to recruit Humphries then anything is possible which means there's reason to still have hope that Pitino will suddenly become a great coach and recruiter? Listen to how that sounds.
 

and no one can tell what the identity of this program is.

I keep seeing this posted but what does it even mean? Can someone give me an identity of each program in the B1G and why it is important?
 




2017 Wright

Four spots for 2019 and lots of misses.

Nnaji
Wahl
Terry
Probably Hurt
Roddy

They have proven nothing yet. I too am disappointed with recruiting in this cycle, but to say that we missed is much much too soon. Nnaji could be like Sims and not pan out. Wahl will prove many wrong if he becomes anything special, Roddy is a borderline P5 player and Hurt will end up at a blue blood and be a one and done. I think the only real miss from 2019 could be Terry.

I think that the post by Golfing18 is quite eye opening. The Gophers get ripped on "missing" on these players when in reality our bias of loving hometown guys clouds our perspective and makes it feel like any kid who leaves is some huge miss and an indictment on our staff and program. Last time I checked, Pitino landed the best player to come out of MN in the last 4 years who wasn't a one and done type.
 

Looking back at the last four recruiting cycles of Minnesota basketball players....who did we "miss" on? The Minnesota talent is good but it isn't final four worthy as many on this board have suggested. According to 247sports composite rankings.

2015 -- would be our seniors this year
1. Alex Illikainen -- out of basketball, not a miss
2. Jarvis Johnson --- Gophers signee, unfortunate circumstance
3. Sacar Anim -- 6.1 PPG for career at Marquette a miss?
4. Justin Dahl -- 2.0 PPG at Northern Iowa not a miss
5. Kyle McKinley -- 0.2 PPG at Louisian Tech currently not a miss

2016 -- our junior class this year
1. Amir Coffey -- already a Gopher
2. Michael Hurt -- already a Gopher
3. Brock Bertram -- 1.1 PPG, 0.6 RPG at Buffalo
4. Reed Nikko -- 2.5 PPG at Missouri
5. nobody else even worth mentioning

2017 -- our sophomore class this year
1. Jericho Sims -- 4.2 PPG in 14.0 minutes per game at Texas
2. Nate Reuvers -- 8.3 PPG and 3.0 RPG at Wisconsin, probably the one guy on this list I would like to have the most
3. Brad Davison -- 11.3 PPG at Wisconsin, nice player
4. Race Thompson -- has played a total of 4 minutes at Indiana
5. Theo John -- 6.0 PPG at Marquette

2018 -- our freshman class
1. Tre Jones -- as has been pointed out a million times on this forum, top 20/25 recruits rarely stay home. they go blue blood. they just do.
2. Daniel Oturu -- already on Minnesota
3. Jarvis Omersa -- already on Minnesota
4. Gabe Kascheur -- already on Minnesota
5. Adam Trapp -- does he even play? South Dakota School of Mines??
6. Joe Hedstrom -- redshirt project at Wisconsin

I understand the 2020 class has some nice players. Even five or six years we have a class like that. However, in the last four years, how many Minnesota recruits did we miss on? It's one of the most over-used excuses for why we can't win here. Pitino has recruited Minnesota players as well as expected, imo. None of the "misses" above would have transformed this team to a Big Ten champion.

Really good info here. I've always thought the importance of keeping as many in-state recruits home as possible was kind of overblown, as well as the heat given to the coaching staff for not doing so, particularly in the case of Tubby's in-state recruiting, which really couldn't have been much better. I think a lot of the perception that we've been consistently terrible at in-state recruiting comes from the 2017 class where we had 2 scholarships available and 6 or 7 high major quality recruits in Minnesota (Trent, Sims, Reuvers, Davison, John, and then Race Thompson and/or Goanar Mar if you count them), so we were inevitably going to "miss" on a number of in-state players. At the time, we were mostly looking for a point guard and a big, and a class of Isaiah Washington and Jericho Sims would have been about as good as anyone could have hoped for. With only 2 scholarships, position of need is important, and it's something that's probably forgotten about as time passes. People complain about our current team's lack of point guard depth, yet argue that we should have pursued Brad Davison, who is not a primary ball handler, instead of Washington. Others seem to believe Pitino should have turned down his bird in the hand, the Isaiah Washington commitment, in hopes of potentially getting a commit from the lower rated McKinley Wright instead. Imagine the outrage if Pitino turned down Washington and then Wright went to Dayton anyway. There was already outrage about Pitino making room for Geno Crandall, who seemingly promised Pitino he would come here if there were a scholarship for him.

Position of need is why I think Tyrell Terry may not have been interested in us, as Isaiah Washington was already on the roster as our likely point guard of the future, and we went out and got Marcus Carr later anyway. It's also why I'm wary of people setting quotas for how many Minnesota kids we need to get in 2020. Don't Garcia, Carlson, and Dainja all play the same position? I think they're all listed as power forwards, can any of them play center? Plus with Stockman and Murphy gone, do we try to get another big with a 2019 scholarship, and does that deter the local 2020 bigs at all?
 


And any kid that has a chance to go to Stanford is not a miss. Very few people get a chance to go to a school like that.

Okay, I mean I agree. So further proving my point. I just want kids who can play. If they come from MN like in 2018, great, an added bonus. But history over the last 4 years has shown outside of the one and done types, MN doesn't produce a ton of high end talent. Since 2015, Amir Coffey is by far and away the best player to come out of MN who has stayed in college for more than one season.
 



I keep seeing this posted but what does it even mean? Can someone give me an identity of each program in the B1G and why it is important?

I've kind of been wondering the same thing. Off the top of my head, Illinois plays pressure defense, Wisconsin is really slow, Purdue consistently has huge and talented big men, Indiana seems to recruit pretty well but underperform a bit on the court, widespread opinion seems to be that Holtmann at Ohio State is a great coach who gets the most out of his talent but I don't know what that entails exactly, Michigan has shooters all over the floor.

For the record, Minnesota was top 10 nationally in total steals in Pitino's first 2 seasons here, and FIU was top 20 in his one season there, but the steals numbers have dropped off significantly since then. We were 2nd in blocks in Reggie Lynch's one full season, 30th the year after, and currently tied for 79th this year. We are 39th in offensive rebounding this year, which I think puts us 2nd in the Big Ten behind Rutgers. We are 7th nationally in free throw attempts, top 40 in 2016-17. Just briefly looking through statistics to see if I can find anything we consistently do well, which I believe is what is meant by having an identity.
 

Okay, I mean I agree. So further proving my point. I just want kids who can play. If they come from MN like in 2018, great, an added bonus. But history over the last 4 years has shown outside of the one and done types, MN doesn't produce a ton of high end talent. Since 2015, Amir Coffey is by far and away the best player to come out of MN who has stayed in college for more than one season.

Completely agree. People from here think everything from here is better. Keeping all the guys home is a terrible idea. We want the ones who want to be here and i hope the ones that go elsewhere do very well.
 

I keep seeing this posted but what does it even mean? Can someone give me an identity of each program in the B1G and why it is important?

It matters for who you target in recruiting. Your program has a style of play. Michigan State plays disciplined, tough grind it out basketball...their emphasis is rebounding...they run set plays. WI has a system...they recruit to it...they slow the game down, they pound it in the post, they look to score or kick it out for wide open threes if you double. Happ maybe leads the team in assists..Big Frank may have too. They want to have 3 point shooters. Michigan shoots threes...Belein is famous for his zone defense. Iowa plays multiple zones, they shoot 3's and have hard working post guys.
You can identify how these teams play...they look the same each season...their style of play...the type of athletes.
Pitino has no identity. He came in wanting to shoot threes and press. We don't do that. The question is: What do we do? What type of players, what skill sets do we recruit? We don't recruit shooters. Is Oturu the first post player we have recruited? We seem to recruit athletes but then we got Matz and Hurt. Style of play is a mystery to me. Construction of the roster is my greatest concern with Pitino. He seems to just add whoever he can get that's ranked top 200...if that fails we welcome transfers.
So, recap answer: Identity matters in establishing a program so you know what your principles are, your style of play. What are the three most important things to you as the coach? Somebody should be able to watch your team and identify that. I can more easily do that for many teams other than the Gophers.
I like Pitino but I do feel he needs direction or a more clear identity of what is important to him.
 

2017 Wright

Four spots for 2019 and lots of misses.

Nnaji
Wahl
Terry
Probably Hurt
Roddy

Wright had plenty of time to commit but chose not to. He didn't decide until April of 2017. Also important to note, IW was the 62nd ranked player in his class whereas Wright was around 250th. Rankings don't always correlate to how good a player is (obviously) but none of us would have or at least should have blasted Pitino at the time given these circumstances.

2019 hasn't played itself out yet. It's possible there may be a "miss" in this class but it's too early to tell.

Also interesting to note the two classes you could even begin to make an argument would be the 2017 and 2019 classes which (not coincidentally) would have been significantly influenced by the 2015-2016 and 2017-2018 seasons on the court. In both of those years, the culture around Gopher basketball became so toxic. Not an excuse. Not blaming anybody. However, obviously much harder to recruit to a fan base frustrated by the product on the floor.
 

It matters for who you target in recruiting. Your program has a style of play. Michigan State plays disciplined, tough grind it out basketball...their emphasis is rebounding...they run set plays. WI has a system...they recruit to it...they slow the game down, they pound it in the post, they look to score or kick it out for wide open threes if you double. Happ maybe leads the team in assists..Big Frank may have too. They want to have 3 point shooters. Michigan shoots threes...Belein is famous for his zone defense. Iowa plays multiple zones, they shoot 3's and have hard working post guys.
You can identify how these teams play...they look the same each season...their style of play...the type of athletes.
Pitino has no identity. He came in wanting to shoot threes and press. We don't do that. The question is: What do we do? What type of players, what skill sets do we recruit? We don't recruit shooters. Is Oturu the first post player we have recruited? We seem to recruit athletes but then we got Matz and Hurt. Style of play is a mystery to me. Construction of the roster is my greatest concern with Pitino. He seems to just add whoever he can get that's ranked top 200...if that fails we welcome transfers.
So, recap answer: Identity matters in establishing a program so you know what your principles are, your style of play. What are the three most important things to you as the coach? Somebody should be able to watch your team and identify that. I can more easily do that for many teams other than the Gophers.
I like Pitino but I do feel he needs direction or a more clear identity of what is important to him.

No surprise that the first 3 teams you mentioned were Micigan, MSU and UW. Presently 1st, 5th and 9th in the nation defensively.
 

It matters for who you target in recruiting. Your program has a style of play. Michigan State plays disciplined, tough grind it out basketball...their emphasis is rebounding...they run set plays. WI has a system...they recruit to it...they slow the game down, they pound it in the post, they look to score or kick it out for wide open threes if you double. Happ maybe leads the team in assists..Big Frank may have too. They want to have 3 point shooters. Michigan shoots threes...Belein is famous for his zone defense. Iowa plays multiple zones, they shoot 3's and have hard working post guys.
You can identify how these teams play...they look the same each season...their style of play...the type of athletes.
Pitino has no identity. He came in wanting to shoot threes and press. We don't do that. The question is: What do we do? What type of players, what skill sets do we recruit? We don't recruit shooters. Is Oturu the first post player we have recruited? We seem to recruit athletes but then we got Matz and Hurt. Style of play is a mystery to me. Construction of the roster is my greatest concern with Pitino. He seems to just add whoever he can get that's ranked top 200...if that fails we welcome transfers.
So, recap answer: Identity matters in establishing a program so you know what your principles are, your style of play. What are the three most important things to you as the coach? Somebody should be able to watch your team and identify that. I can more easily do that for many teams other than the Gophers.
I like Pitino but I do feel he needs direction or a more clear identity of what is important to him.
Excellent post.
 

Looking back at the last four recruiting cycles of Minnesota basketball players....who did we "miss" on? The Minnesota talent is good but it isn't final four worthy as many on this board have suggested. According to 247sports composite rankings.

2015 -- would be our seniors this year
1. Alex Illikainen -- out of basketball, not a miss
2. Jarvis Johnson --- Gophers signee, unfortunate circumstance
3. Sacar Anim -- 6.1 PPG for career at Marquette a miss?
4. Justin Dahl -- 2.0 PPG at Northern Iowa not a miss
5. Kyle McKinley -- 0.2 PPG at Louisian Tech currently not a miss

2016 -- our junior class this year
1. Amir Coffey -- already a Gopher
2. Michael Hurt -- already a Gopher
3. Brock Bertram -- 1.1 PPG, 0.6 RPG at Buffalo
4. Reed Nikko -- 2.5 PPG at Missouri
5. nobody else even worth mentioning

2017 -- our sophomore class this year
1. Jericho Sims -- 4.2 PPG in 14.0 minutes per game at Texas
2. Nate Reuvers -- 8.3 PPG and 3.0 RPG at Wisconsin, probably the one guy on this list I would like to have the most
3. Brad Davison -- 11.3 PPG at Wisconsin, nice player

4. Race Thompson -- has played a total of 4 minutes at Indiana
5. Theo John -- 6.0 PPG at Marquette

2018 -- our freshman class
1. Tre Jones -- as has been pointed out a million times on this forum, top 20/25 recruits rarely stay home. they go blue blood. they just do.
2. Daniel Oturu -- already on Minnesota
3. Jarvis Omersa -- already on Minnesota
4. Gabe Kascheur -- already on Minnesota
5. Adam Trapp -- does he even play? South Dakota School of Mines??
6. Joe Hedstrom -- redshirt project at Wisconsin

I understand the 2020 class has some nice players. Even five or six years we have a class like that. However, in the last four years, how many Minnesota recruits did we miss on? It's one of the most over-used excuses for why we can't win here. Pitino has recruited Minnesota players as well as expected, imo. None of the "misses" above would have transformed this team to a Big Ten champion.


Marquette is ranked 10th in the country. Both Sacar and Theo John start for them. Like someone else has pointed out, you didn't even bring up Wright. Davison and Reuvers both start for a top 20 Wisconsin team. Sims started as a freshmen on an NCAA Texas team. Yeah we could use all 6 of those guys. We've struck out so far in the 2019 Minnesota class. You also conveniently leave out the 2014 class of Tyus, Travis, Vaughn and Macura. Oh that's right, we should never expect to get the good players who go play for the Blue Bloods like UNLV, Xavier and Stanford.
 
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Pitino: Son we would love for you to come to Minnesota and for you to represent your state!

Recruit: coach I think I'm gonna go elsewhere because I want to go to the Ncaa tournament

Pitino: well if you come to Minnesota were definately gonna go to tournament

Some of these in state guys should realize with our roster, that if they commit to us we could be a top 15 program. I get if you want to leave the state because some people just want to go away to school. Unfortunately, this is one reason we need to get to tourney this year is to show that were a good program and to start getting consistent in doing so. So many people think the grass is always greener somewhere else.
 

Marquette is ranked 10th in the country. Both Sacar and Theo John start for them. Like someone else has pointed out, you didn't even bring up Wright. Davison and Reuvers both start for a top 20 Wisconsin team. Sims started as a freshmen on an NCAA Texas team. Yeah we could use all 6 of those guys. We've struck out so far in the 2019 Minnesota class. You also conveniently leave out the 2014 class of Tyus, Travis, Vaughn and Macura. Oh that's right, we should never expect to get the good players who go play for the Blue Bloods like UNLV, Xavier and Stanford.


Sacar-I believe we ignored
Theo John-We recruited heavy, he decided to go elsewhere
Reuvers-Said he had no interest in Minnesota.
Davison-Didn't recruit until late, probably a mistake. But I'm glad I don't have defend his flopping and whining to refs
2014-Tough to expect first year coach to keep those guys. Macura is probably the only one I would consider reasonable target


MN basketball is disappointing and hire of Pitino there were going to be growing pains.

Lets see how this season plays out.
 

2017 -- our sophomore class this year
1. Jericho Sims -- 4.2 PPG in 14.0 minutes per game at Texas
2. Nate Reuvers -- 8.3 PPG and 3.0 RPG at Wisconsin, probably the one guy on this list I would like to have the most
3. Brad Davison -- 11.3 PPG at Wisconsin, nice player
4. Race Thompson -- has played a total of 4 minutes at Indiana
5. Theo John -- 6.0 PPG at Marquette

It's way too early to throw in the towel in Sims and John. I'd still bet on them becoming major contributors before it's all said and done.
 

Pitino: Son we would love for you to come to Minnesota and for you to represent your state!

Recruit: coach I think I'm gonna go elsewhere because I want to go to the Ncaa tournament

Pitino: well if you come to Minnesota were definately gonna go to tournament

Some of these in state guys should realize with our roster, that if they commit to us we could be a top 15 program. I get if you want to leave the state because some people just want to go away to school. Unfortunately, this is one reason we need to get to tourney this year is to show that were a good program and to start getting consistent in doing so. So many people think the grass is always greener somewhere else.

And sometimes it is greener. There are a so many nice places all over the world. There are many great schools with great basketball programs with far more impressive coaches than we have. Kid have a ton of choices.
 

And sometimes it is greener. There are a so many nice places all over the world. There are many great schools with great basketball programs with far more impressive coaches than we have. Kid have a ton of choices.

You are right. There are so many nice universities out there. Most people do want to go away. Thats why most schools cant get the in state guys to stay home!
 

It matters for who you target in recruiting. Your program has a style of play. Michigan State plays disciplined, tough grind it out basketball...their emphasis is rebounding...they run set plays. WI has a system...they recruit to it...they slow the game down, they pound it in the post, they look to score or kick it out for wide open threes if you double. Happ maybe leads the team in assists..Big Frank may have too. They want to have 3 point shooters. Michigan shoots threes...Belein is famous for his zone defense. Iowa plays multiple zones, they shoot 3's and have hard working post guys.
You can identify how these teams play...they look the same each season...their style of play...the type of athletes.
Pitino has no identity. He came in wanting to shoot threes and press. We don't do that. The question is: What do we do? What type of players, what skill sets do we recruit? We don't recruit shooters. Is Oturu the first post player we have recruited? We seem to recruit athletes but then we got Matz and Hurt. Style of play is a mystery to me. Construction of the roster is my greatest concern with Pitino. He seems to just add whoever he can get that's ranked top 200...if that fails we welcome transfers.
So, recap answer: Identity matters in establishing a program so you know what your principles are, your style of play. What are the three most important things to you as the coach? Somebody should be able to watch your team and identify that. I can more easily do that for many teams other than the Gophers.
I like Pitino but I do feel he needs direction or a more clear identity of what is important to him.

Michigan State plays tough, grind it out basketball? That's an identity? Kenpom has them 6th in adjO in the country. Is that consistent with grind out it out basketball? Is that different than what other coaches including Pitino are trying to do? We haven't played tough, grind it out basketball this year? Is that really an identity? Michigan State consistently has the best recruits in the conference. Is that an identity?

Wisconsin is really the only team that has a different offensive style. But right now we are 1-0 against them and could be 2-0 after Wednesday night. Iowa? Not playing defense, is that an identity you want? Right now we are 1-0 against them, and tied with them in the standings.

Michigan is currently 8th in the B1G in 3 pt made this season. That's their identity?

I think Pitino has an identity. He's trying to recruit multi-dimensional players with length and mix them with shooters. We have one of, if not the tallest starting lineup in the conference. Coffey, Curry, Oturu, McBrayer mixed with the shooting of Gabe. Yes he's missed on a few guys like Harris, and it's possible he thought players like McBrayer, Coffey, Washington, Hurt would develop a better outside shot.

Right now this 'lack of identity' has the Gophers at 16-6, and they will make the NCAA tournament for the 2nd time in 3 years if they take care of business down the stretch. I think identity is a misnomer, and most teams lack a true identity, or it changes each year depending on the players that are recruited.

Nearly all coaches are trying to recruit the best talent possible, then developing that talent into as many wins as possible. Pitino is no different.
 

Michigan State plays tough, grind it out basketball? That's an identity? Kenpom has them 6th in adjO in the country. Is that consistent with grind out it out basketball? Is that different than what other coaches including Pitino are trying to do? We haven't played tough, grind it out basketball this year? Is that really an identity? Michigan State consistently has the best recruits in the conference. Is that an identity?

Wisconsin is really the only team that has a different offensive style. But right now we are 1-0 against them and could be 2-0 after Wednesday night. Iowa? Not playing defense, is that an identity you want? Right now we are 1-0 against them, and tied with them in the standings.

Michigan is currently 8th in the B1G in 3 pt made this season. That's their identity?

I think Pitino has an identity. He's trying to recruit multi-dimensional players with length and mix them with shooters. We have one of, if not the tallest starting lineup in the conference. Coffey, Curry, Oturu, McBrayer mixed with the shooting of Gabe. Yes he's missed on a few guys like Harris, and it's possible he thought players like McBrayer, Coffey, Washington, Hurt would develop a better outside shot.

Right now this 'lack of identity' has the Gophers at 16-6, and they will make the NCAA tournament for the 2nd time in 3 years if they take care of business down the stretch. I think identity is a misnomer, and most teams lack a true identity, or it changes each year depending on the players that are recruited.

Nearly all coaches are trying to recruit the best talent possible, then developing that talent into as many wins as possible. Pitino is no different.

This.
 

I think Pitino has an identity. He's trying to recruit multi-dimensional players with length and mix them with shooters. We have one of, if not the tallest starting lineup in the conference. Coffey, Curry, Oturu, McBrayer mixed with the shooting of Gabe. Yes he's missed on a few guys like Harris, and it's possible he thought players like McBrayer, Coffey, Washington, Hurt would develop a better outside shot.

Do we have a shooting coach? Does Pitino ever get Trent Tucker to come over and work with the guys on their motion to be more consistent?
 

60s Guy is right about Beilein's recruiting and offense. 3 pt shooting has been the hallmark of his teams for as long as he's been at Michigan, and even at WV before that. He does recruit with that in mind. This year is an aberration. Except for Jordan Poole, the other starters are either abysmal or streaky at shooting 3s. Mo Wgner and Ducan Robinson were excellent at the 3 last year, but they are in the NBA and G League. Robinson was a transfer from a DIII school, specifically brought in because of his 3 point shooting, but was a liability on defense until his senior year.
 




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