***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT ILLINOIS IN-GAME THREAD!!!!***

Tubby's winning percentage his last three years here was 37% in conference. Pitino is 35%. Wow, big difference. Pitino was hired because this program could not attract a proven coach, we missed on about ten coaches. No coach has survived this program unscathed in 50 years. The idea with Pitino was to grow the program with him.

He does have a pretty solid core returning next year, if he returns with them. I for one, hope he does. It appears that there are a lot of folks here that cannot wait for him to lose and get fired. I'm sure John Wooden is our next coach, so everything should be fine.

If the players stick around the next John Wooden would get a top 6 of:

Oturu
Curry
Coffey
Kalsheuer
Carr
Washington

Tubby left this core behind for Pitino:

Hollins
Hollins
Walker
Ahanmisi
Ellenson
Osieniks
Buggs

We didn't "miss" on 10 coaches. Teague/Ellis tried to get Stephens, Shaka, and Hoiberg (actually had someone connected tell me this really almost happened) and when they missed on those guys, they wanted their "next Shaka". Shaka turned down UCLA that off season too and both Hoiberg and Stephens ended up taking NBA jobs. I think most of us agree Tubby needed to go, that zero winning conference seasons through 6 seasons was more than enough of a leash. That said, he made the tournament in 3 of 6 years and did so during a period where Minnesota wasn't producing much basketball talent. Unless this teams shocks me and goes like 9-5 in it's last 14, there can't be an argument made that Pitino has even matched Tubby's tenure. I would definitely prefer what Pitino will leave the next coach than what Tubby left Pitino, but both are pretty dismal rosters which is a large reason why I advocated for a change last off season. Pitino gets full credit for turning around Walker so you're really only talking about having Hollins and Hollins and an ok C in Eliason (who had a bad Senior year under Pitino) compared to Coffey, Oturu, Kalscheur, and Carr as guys you can at least expect to be solid rotation players next season.

Nobody is asking for John Wooden, but a 34-62 conference record is completely unacceptable. Tim Miles is 49-65 at F'ing Nebraska. Fran McCaffery is 69-78 at F'ing Iowa. Chris Collins is 37-58 at F'ing Northwestern. Minnesota should expect to be better than those places at an absolute bare minimum. All of those coaches took over a much worse situation than Pitino did. Every one of them has a better conference record than Pitino. If Pitino was say 48-48 with just one NCAA tournament victory, the vast majority of the board would be fine with giving him more time.
 

Who do you blame for the shot clock violations? Players? Coaches?

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They didn't compete. You are correct. Second time this has happened. I get your message- it's the coach. Maybe so.

The season will tell the story. I think they are a .500 plus or minus, Big Ten team that played lousy against a young talented team that played out of their minds at home. I expected a loss tonight. It's just the way the game set up. Illinois has talent, plays hard and was way overdue to have things go well on a given night. Once things got going...well, it might turn out well for us that we got the crap beaten out of us. Players and coaches both will need to be a lot better going forward and they know it.
It is amazing how many times the "given night" coincides with playing the Gophers...
 

I know today was awful but everyone needs to relax and let the season play out and then we can go from there.
We win at Crisler and all is forgiven... (is there a pigs flying emoticon anywhere?)
 

Who do you blame for the shot clock violations? Players? Coaches?

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Thats generally coaching, lack of offensive game plan, players have skills, run offensive sets that utilize those skills and generate shots one way or another.
 


We win at Crisler and all is forgiven... (is there a pigs flying emoticon anywhere?)
Well, nobody thought the football team would win at Wisconsin, so there's a chance.

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Well, nobody thought the football team would win at Wisconsin, so there's a chance.

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Actually, I had a feeling that the football team would win at Wisconsin. Can't compare Wisconsin's football team this year to Michigan's basketball team. Wisconsin's football team really wasn't that good this year.
 

You just helped underscore the foolishness of unwarranted optimism. Thank you.

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We didn't "miss" on 10 coaches. Teague/Ellis tried to get Stephens, Shaka, and Hoiberg (actually had someone connected tell me this really almost happened) and when they missed on those guys, they wanted their "next Shaka". Shaka turned down UCLA that off season too and both Hoiberg and Stephens ended up taking NBA jobs. I think most of us agree Tubby needed to go, that zero winning conference seasons through 6 seasons was more than enough of a leash. That said, he made the tournament in 3 of 6 years and did so during a period where Minnesota wasn't producing much basketball talent. Unless this teams shocks me and goes like 9-5 in it's last 14, there can't be an argument made that Pitino has even matched Tubby's tenure. I would definitely prefer what Pitino will leave the next coach than what Tubby left Pitino, but both are pretty dismal rosters which is a large reason why I advocated for a change last off season. Pitino gets full credit for turning around Walker so you're really only talking about having Hollins and Hollins and an ok C in Eliason (who had a bad Senior year under Pitino) compared to Coffey, Oturu, Kalscheur, and Carr as guys you can at least expect to be solid rotation players next season.

Nobody is asking for John Wooden, but a 34-62 conference record is completely unacceptable. Tim Miles is 49-65 at F'ing Nebraska. Fran McCaffery is 69-78 at F'ing Iowa. Chris Collins is 37-58 at F'ing Northwestern. Minnesota should expect to be better than those places at an absolute bare minimum. All of those coaches took over a much worse situation than Pitino did. Every one of them has a better conference record than Pitino. If Pitino was say 48-48 with just one NCAA tournament victory, the vast majority of the board would be fine with giving him more time.

Excellent post! Assuming everyone comes back (not a certainty) after a coaching change, then I agree that Pitino will leave a better roster than he inherited for his first year. However, Pitino has never managed to develop his own Austin Hollins during his time here. Austin was a hard working, consistent, and often underrated player with real leadership qualities. Sometimes Nate Mason looked that way but other times Mason just played for himself.
 



Tubby's winning percentage his last three years here was 37% in conference. Pitino is 35%. Wow, big difference. Pitino was hired because this program could not attract a proven coach, we missed on about ten coaches. No coach has survived this program unscathed in 50 years. The idea with Pitino was to grow the program with him.

He does have a pretty solid core returning next year, if he returns with them. I for one, hope he does. It appears that there are a lot of folks here that cannot wait for him to lose and get fired. I'm sure John Wooden is our next coach, so everything should be fine.

If the players stick around the next John Wooden would get a top 6 of:

Oturu
Curry
Coffey
Kalsheuer
Carr
Washington

Tubby left this core behind for Pitino:

Hollins
Hollins
Walker
Ahanmisi
Ellenson
Osieniks
Buggs

I will never believe that this program is so unattractive to coaching candidates that we have to be satisfied with hiring someone who's inexperienced and unproven and wait patiently for the better part of a decade to see whether they'll ever figure it out. Anyone who thinks that this is the way to run anything, much less a major college athletic department: I wouldn't want them running a lemonade stand.
 

They've lost the four games by an average of 19 points. Losing games is one thing but losing the way they have is another. Lack of effort and energy. Pathetic.
 

I will never believe that this program is so unattractive to coaching candidates that we have to be satisfied with hiring someone who's inexperienced and unproven and wait patiently for the better part of a decade to see whether they'll ever figure it out. Anyone who thinks that this is the way to run anything, much less a major college athletic department: I wouldn't want them running a lemonade stand.

Agreed but hiring that "next great coach " is super difficult not because they would not come here but because they are difficult to identify. How is it that Chris Beard turned out to learn more from Bob Knight than Knights own son ? He did not learn more he turned out to be a better teacher, a better recruiter. Being a great teacher is a really rare gift. Of the dozen and dozens of professors i have had only a few stand out. They are hard to find. It is not too late here but this team and this regime failed from day one to establish a culture of soundness, toughness and defense. He admitted as much about the defense when he said the teams bad offense, scoring droughts get the team down defensively, that we needed a dunk or something to get out of the funk defensively. Can anyone imagine UVA saying that ! They dig in even harder because it is their culture, that it feeds their offense and has led to a 48-3 record in the last 51 ! Izzo installed it day one at MSU, Mata at every stop, Howland at every stop, Ryan inherited a roster with the mind set and stressed it every day. Agree or disagree on this board but everyone here does admit at the lack of program identity. It is hard to do obviously.
 

Against quick teams go zone Never play Omorosa
 




Agreed but hiring that "next great coach " is super difficult not because they would not come here but because they are difficult to identify. How is it that Chris Beard turned out to learn more from Bob Knight than Knights own son ? He did not learn more he turned out to be a better teacher, a better recruiter. Being a great teacher is a really rare gift. Of the dozen and dozens of professors i have had only a few stand out. They are hard to find. It is not too late here but this team and this regime failed from day one to establish a culture of soundness, toughness and defense. He admitted as much about the defense when he said the teams bad offense, scoring droughts get the team down defensively, that we needed a dunk or something to get out of the funk defensively. Can anyone imagine UVA saying that ! They dig in even harder because it is their culture, that it feeds their offense and has led to a 48-3 record in the last 51 ! Izzo installed it day one at MSU, Mata at every stop, Howland at every stop, Ryan inherited a roster with the mind set and stressed it every day. Agree or disagree on this board but everyone here does admit at the lack of program identity. It is hard to do obviously.

Appreciate the wisdom, but the point is this: right now we're doing the equivalent of throwing good money after bad. In other words, in not wanting to throw away the investment of years hoping this coaching hire eventually works out, we're spending more years to make those first years worthwhile. At some point a person has to cut their losses and leave the table.

I love Richard's personality and fan friendliness, but haven't we all had that lovable coworker who shmoozes like nobody's business but can't produce top notch work? I believe that's what we're dealing with here.
 




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