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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherJake View Post
    The problem with this season began in the middle of last season when, after winning him 5 or so games in a row at QB, Zimmer apparently still couldn’t see straight and refused to put his full trust in Keenum. Then, after the NFC championship game, Mr Right pig-headedly stuck to his guns and lobbied not to keep the guy who saved the season, who helped galvanize the team, helped make superstars out of Thielen and Diggs - all the while, running for his life, half the time. Instead of spending money and picks on about 5 new offensive linemen, Zim convinces Spielman to blow his entire wad on a marginal upgrade at QB - and a guy that obviously doesn’t know how to beat decent teams. This guy can’t move like CK and the season is fumbled away by good defensive lines running over our below-average o-line.

    Stupid decision. Started with Zimmer and Spielman was complicit.
    This is a spot on post. About time you had one GJ (just kidding).

    What I'll add is what I said as soon as they signed Cousins. You better add assets to the OL because Cousins is a statue and doesnt do well under pressure. What did they do? Picked a corner back in the first round, got damn lucky in the second round (O'Neil was projected to be raw), and signed zero impactful free agent OL.

    I've read from so called experts multiple times that our OL was better last season. BS. Keenum was a magician last season at shedding defenders. He made that OL adequate. That is a fire-able offense for Spielman. And I love the irony that Zimmer wouldn't name Keenum the starter because he was afraid Keenum would start making horrible turnovers at some point; but that ended up being his $84 million man committing bunches of turnovers.

    I don't know if Spielman is gun shy after missing on Kalil, but the way he has neglected the offensive line is a fireable offense.


  2. #17

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    The $60 million + left on KC's contract is a sunk cost now. Nothing you can do about it. But that doesn't mean that he has to be the starter. Draft a quarterback. Maybe Denver doesn't pick up Keenum's option and he's available. Maybe Teddy doesn't get the contract everyone thinks he will. Maybe they can pick up another decent FA or maybe give Sloter a shot.

    Point is just because we are paying Cousins a lot of money doesnt mean we need to play him if he continues to suck.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherJake View Post
    The problem with this season began in the middle of last season when, after winning him 5 or so games in a row at QB, Zimmer apparently still couldnít see straight and refused to put his full trust in Keenum. Then, after the NFC championship game, Mr Right pig-headedly stuck to his guns and lobbied not to keep the guy who saved the season, who helped galvanize the team, helped make superstars out of Thielen and Diggs - all the while, running for his life, half the time. Instead of spending money and picks on about 5 new offensive linemen, Zim convinces Spielman to blow his entire wad on a marginal upgrade at QB - and a guy that obviously doesnít know how to beat decent teams. This guy canít move like CK and the season is fumbled away by good defensive lines running over our below-average o-line.

    Stupid decision. Started with Zimmer and Spielman was complicit.
    Kirk Cousins did not have a great year, but he was still a top 10 QB statistically this year. Case Keenum went 6-10 and was 28th in QB rating. I'm with everyone that Kirk deserves a ton of criticism but let's not anoint Case as some great QB. This team's biggest issue was the O-line. Unless they get that fixed in the off season, we're going to be back in the same spot next year.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopher_alum_2005 View Post
    Kirk Cousins did not have a great year, but he was still a top 10 QB statistically this year. Case Keenum went 6-10 and was 28th in QB rating. I'm with everyone that Kirk deserves a ton of criticism but let's not anoint Case as some great QB. This team's biggest issue was the O-line. Unless they get that fixed in the off season, we're going to be back in the same spot next year.
    This is why chasing stats is foolish. Anyone who has read "How To Lie With Statistics" knows this. I had to read it for my 3xxx level Statistics course back when I attended the U. Why sports makes stats an absolute measure is beyond me.

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    "The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." - Albert Einstein

  5. #20

    Default 2019 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gopher_alum_2005 View Post
    Kirk Cousins did not have a great year, but he was still a top 10 QB statistically this year. Case Keenum went 6-10 and was 28th in QB rating. I'm with everyone that Kirk deserves a ton of criticism but let's not anoint Case as some great QB. This team's biggest issue was the O-line. Unless they get that fixed in the off season, we're going to be back in the same spot next year.
    You misread my post. Case K or anyone else at his level + 5 upgrades (by position- not necessarily 5 new guys) on the o-line would have won 10+ games

    Dr 4-25 won 8. Donít you dare scream and yell at Thielen and Diggs on The Joe Buck Showcase Game when Iíd rather watch Case K throw it up for grabs vs watching you fumble, miss open receivers, run about once a month and have the season batted away like one of your passes.

    Cousins - and the line - are fine, good even, vs subpar competition. But without protection, he and the running game are good for about zero wins.

    They should have signed Keenum or someone making his $ or less and spent the rest on the o-line. You and everyone else here knows it.
    Last edited by GopherJake; 12-31-2018 at 09:22 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quite a few of us were worried the vikings nearly ignored the offensive line in the draft for the bazillionth year in a row. A second round pick at OT, and a backup CB in the first round. Read pro football focus. They had this team nailed from the get go. Lots of talent everywhere, but front office ignored the offensive line and it was ranked like 28th in the league.

    Pro football focus was also critical on the Cousins signing for many reasons stated above, but in addition they stated how Case's feet enabled our crappy line to look less bad then it was, with his ability to avoiding sacks.
    When teams can get pressure without blitzing, the can basically double Diggs and Thielen.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopher_alum_2005 View Post
    Kirk Cousins did not have a great year, but he was still a top 10 QB statistically this year. Case Keenum went 6-10 and was 28th in QB rating. I'm with everyone that Kirk deserves a ton of criticism but let's not anoint Case as some great QB. This team's biggest issue was the O-line. Unless they get that fixed in the off season, we're going to be back in the same spot next year.
    +1. Case Keenum's stats this year basically matched his career stats excluding last year. He is who you thought he was. Even with an extra $10 million to spend, we would not have been significantly better off with Keenum. Certainly not a Super Bowl contender.

  8. #23
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    When do Spielman and Zimmer depart this team and will it be an involuntary or voluntary departure?

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    "The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." - Albert Einstein

  9. #24

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    The continued notion that things would have been better "if they had just spent more of their money on the OL". Who are these players again? There are a lot of teams in the league woeful on the OL, not just the Vikings. Just because they could have had more money, doesn't mean it would have translated one iota into more OL talent. It COULD have, but OL talent is a very, very hot commodity right now. Those guys are not just walking around the street waiting to be signed.

    Not sure it will get much better this offseason but they'll obviously make an effort. And they might have to significantly overpay to do it. And that's just fine.
    - Respect is the ultimate currency

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogee Oglethorpe View Post
    The continued notion that things would have been better "if they had just spent more of their money on the OL". Who are these players again? There are a lot of teams in the league woeful on the OL, not just the Vikings. Just because they could have had more money, doesn't mean it would have translated one iota into more OL talent. It COULD have, but OL talent is a very, very hot commodity right now. Those guys are not just walking around the street waiting to be signed.

    Not sure it will get much better this offseason but they'll obviously make an effort. And they might have to significantly overpay to do it. And that's just fine.
    First round draft choice, 2nd round draft choice, two free agents. Increase the depth and 2 new starters. That is what needed to be done. I didn't say superstars. Upgrade. We needed incremental upgrade at all five positions - maybe 4, b/c I think we all assumed the Elf would be good. Maybe that meant moving one of them to a different position. Then 3 more guys.

    Pick one
    Pick two
    Free agent

    They skimped and paid for the marginal upgrade at QB who can't beat good teams and yells at the two best offensive players on national TV.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by march madness View Post
    Quite a few of us were worried the vikings nearly ignored the offensive line in the draft for the bazillionth year in a row. A second round pick at OT, and a backup CB in the first round. Read pro football focus. They had this team nailed from the get go. Lots of talent everywhere, but front office ignored the offensive line and it was ranked like 28th in the league.

    Pro football focus was also critical on the Cousins signing for many reasons stated above, but in addition they stated how Case's feet enabled our crappy line to look less bad then it was, with his ability to avoiding sacks.
    When teams can get pressure without blitzing, the can basically double Diggs and Thielen.
    Ding ding ding. Keenum looked bad with Denver this year because Denver has a terrible offense with basically no weapons. The Vikings have plenty of weapons on offense. And with our offensive line....Keenum is a far better fit. He's mobile enough to escape pressure and aggressive enough to attempt extra yards if we really need it. Plus his pocket awareness last year was incredible....like he had eyes in the back of his head. Cousins is a statue in the pocket. Pretty much runs directly backwards at any sign of pressure. Has horrible pocket awareness. When he does scramble he goes down if a defender gets within five yards of him.

    But yes. Either way....the line needs to be addressed immediately. Zimmer (if he's still around next year) may have to let a defensive asset or two walk to free up some cap space and bring in some linemen. Because if we go into next year with a line that looks and plays like this, Zimmer will be gone after next year.

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  12. #27

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    STrib: Top 10 story lines to watch in Minnesota sports

    4. What is the future direction of the Vikings?

    This figures to be an interesting offseason for the Vikings, who face roster dilemmas created by hefty contracts and also need to make long-term decisions about coach Mike Zimmer and GM Rick Spielman. The smart guess is that the Vikings don’t make a lot of dramatic moves, but even so this could be a roster and team in transition.

    http://www.startribune.com/page-2-bi...rts/503746212/

    Skol Vikes!!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopher_alum_2005 View Post
    Kirk Cousins did not have a great year, but he was still a top 10 QB statistically this year. Case Keenum went 6-10 and was 28th in QB rating. I'm with everyone that Kirk deserves a ton of criticism but let's not anoint Case as some great QB. This team's biggest issue was the O-line. Unless they get that fixed in the off season, we're going to be back in the same spot next year.
    I was listening to KFAN the other morning & Corey Cove (who is like nails on a chalkboard to me) was droning on in his arrogant way, about how good Cousins is, how great his stats are, how people just don't get it, etc.

    I thought to myself, "This is why people over 30 y/o don't believe in analytics alone", because they don't tell the whole story. No, Cousins wasn't horrible, buy Cove referring to this as "One of the five best seasons a Vikings QB has ever had" made me shake my head in disbelief.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by stocker08 View Post
    Ding ding ding. Keenum looked bad with Denver this year because Denver has a terrible offense with basically no weapons. The Vikings have plenty of weapons on offense. And with our offensive line....Keenum is a far better fit. He's mobile enough to escape pressure and aggressive enough to attempt extra yards if we really need it. Plus his pocket awareness last year was incredible....like he had eyes in the back of his head. Cousins is a statue in the pocket. Pretty much runs directly backwards at any sign of pressure. Has horrible pocket awareness. When he does scramble he goes down if a defender gets within five yards of him.

    But yes. Either way....the line needs to be addressed immediately. Zimmer (if he's still around next year) may have to let a defensive asset or two walk to free up some cap space and bring in some linemen. Because if we go into next year with a line that looks and plays like this, Zimmer will be gone after next year.

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    100%. Keenum's arm is weak, so he doesn't give you much downfield threat, but he's mobile & does a nice job running the offense. I can see wanting someone with a big arm who can take us to the next level, but what's the point if the OL sucks?

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by stocker08 View Post
    Ding ding ding. Keenum looked bad with Denver this year because Denver has a terrible offense with basically no weapons. The Vikings have plenty of weapons on offense. And with our offensive line....Keenum is a far better fit. He's mobile enough to escape pressure and aggressive enough to attempt extra yards if we really need it. Plus his pocket awareness last year was incredible....like he had eyes in the back of his head. Cousins is a statue in the pocket. Pretty much runs directly backwards at any sign of pressure. Has horrible pocket awareness. When he does scramble he goes down if a defender gets within five yards of him.

    But yes. Either way....the line needs to be addressed immediately. Zimmer (if he's still around next year) may have to let a defensive asset or two walk to free up some cap space and bring in some linemen. Because if we go into next year with a line that looks and plays like this, Zimmer will be gone after next year.

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    Nailed it!

    The Vikes squandered a ton of money at QB and actually down graded the position. If the QB has absolutely pocket Cousins is the better QB because of arm strength. A bad line needs a mobile QB. Case extended plays because of mobility and made the defense pay every time they turned their back by running.


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