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  1. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruze View Post
    Things won't improve to any measurable degree by weeding out the worst 10% to 15% of teachers and here's why:


    America’s Teacher Shortage Is a Bigger Problem than Thought

    A new report says the shortage of skilled teachers in the United States is a bigger problem than people may think.

    The not-for-profit, Washington-based Economic Policy Institute, or EPI, published the report last week. It was the first in a six-part series that aims to examine the causes of -- and solutions for -- the national teacher shortage in U.S. public schools.

    EPI’s report notes that less than 10 years ago, many teachers were looking for jobs. Then, in 2012, public schools were looking for teachers. That year, the country faced a shortage of 20,000 school teachers.

    By the 2017-2018 school year, the country was estimated to have a shortage of over 110,000 teachers. Those numbers come from the Learning Policy Institute.

    However, EPI researchers Emma Garcia and Elaine Weiss argue that such estimates are still far too low. They say the estimates do not consider that many current teachers lack necessary training, experience and official approval to teach.

    Garcia and Weiss found that, nationwide, one-third of teachers do not have an education background in the main subject that they teach. And, more than 20 percent have less than five years of teaching experience. About nine percent are teaching without the usual state certification.

    The study found those numbers to be even greater in high-poverty schools – where more than half of students receive free or reduced-cost meals. In such schools, almost 40 percent of teachers do not have previous education in the main subjects they teach. And about one-quarter have little classroom experience.

    Why is there a teacher shortage?

    More and more, qualified educators are either quitting or deciding not to enter the teaching field at all, the EPI report says. Many leave the field because of poor working conditions. They also object to low pay. The average yearly pay for public school teachers has fallen in recent years, even as the cost of living and other expenses continue to rise.

    Read complete article at: https://learningenglish.voanews.com/...t/4859004.html


    The socialism of our school system is the reason for the lousy working conditions. Teachers have no power. Schools are out of control. The answer to that is not more money. It's to change the system.


  2. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    Teachers have no power. Schools are out of control.
    Can you please expand on these comments?

  3. #183
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by bottlebass View Post
    Teachers work 7 months. LOLOLOL You have no idea what you are talking about.
    +1. Only someone who doesn't know anyone who's a teacher would say this.

  4. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherJake View Post
    Can you please expand on these comments?
    I refuse to believe you are unaware.

  5. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    I refuse to believe you are unaware.
    I'm aware of what I think, but not what you think. I was asking you. Is this how you have conversations in person?

  6. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherJake View Post
    I'm aware of what I think, but not what you think. I was asking you. Is this how you have conversations in person?
    You forfeited your right to have a conversation with me. Apologize and promise to operate in good faith moving forward, and give as well as take, and promise to discontinue your boring tactic of asking question after question until you lead me to the response you want, and I'm happy to reengage with you.


    here's an old article
    https://www.city-journal.org/html/wh...ine-11749.html

  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    You forfeited your right to have a conversation with me. Apologize and promise to operate in good faith moving forward, and give as well as take, and promise to discontinue your boring tactic of asking question after question until you lead me to the response you want, and I'm happy to reengage with you.


    here's an old article
    https://www.city-journal.org/html/wh...ine-11749.html
    Doh kay. You post 50 times a day of inanity, but can't answer a legitimate question. Conversations work two ways and often involve a series of questions - particularly in disconnected communication. Because DH told you that's not how it works is no excuse - he's wrong. The endless series of mind-numbingly stupid exchanges you have on here is a reflection of you, S2. Not the other way around.

  8. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherJake View Post
    Doh kay. You post 50 times a day of inanity, but can't answer a legitimate question. Conversations work two ways and often involve a series of questions - particularly in disconnected communication. Because DH told you that's not how it works is no excuse - he's wrong. The endless series of mind-numbingly stupid exchanges you have on here is a reflection of you, S2. Not the other way around.
    I'ts not inanity. I can answer. Yes, they do work 2 ways, you think Jake is in charge and in control and he's not. A series of questions to learn is fine. A series of questions EVERY SINGLE TIME where you think you are so smart trying to lead me to information is not seeking to learn or understand. It's seeking to control (which you have a MAJOR PROBLEM with, I feel bad for people in your orbit).
    My mind numbingly dumb exchanges with stocker, you, jammer, howie, and cnc are a reflection on them. Because that's all they have with ANYONE. The fact that I have great, interesting, enlightening two way exchanges with people like SON, 0723, BB, and many conservatives and CRG is a reflection on me.

    Anyway, I answered your question anyway and threw you a bone. I don't see any apology, so on ignore you stay.

  9. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    I'ts not inanity. I can answer. Yes, they do work 2 ways, you think Jake is in charge and in control and he's not. A series of questions to learn is fine. A series of questions EVERY SINGLE TIME where you think you are so smart trying to lead me to information is not seeking to learn or understand. It's seeking to control (which you have a MAJOR PROBLEM with, I feel bad for people in your orbit).
    My mind numbingly dumb exchanges with stocker, you, jammer, howie, and cnc are a reflection on them. Because that's all they have with ANYONE. The fact that I have great, interesting, enlightening two way exchanges with people like SON, 0723, BB, and many conservatives and CRG is a reflection on me.

    Anyway, I answered your question anyway and threw you a bone. I don't see any apology, so on ignore you stay.
    Answering a question with a link is not an answer. Do you have one?

  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by GopherJake View Post
    Answering a question with a link is not an answer. Do you have one?
    the link is a very robust explanation of WHY teachers, principles and schools have no power and are overregulated, and because of this, our schools are out of control. That's what I think. Read the link, or don't. Bye Jake!

  11. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    the link is a very robust explanation of WHY teachers, principles and schools have no power and are overregulated, and because of this, our schools are out of control. That's what I think. Read the link, or don't. Bye Jake!
    Thanks, Snowflake2. That wasn't apparent from your post above. All you said is "here's an old article." You didn't say that it represented your view. Since you type 10,000 words a day here, you could have added a small explanation. I'll give it a look.

  12. #192
    Join Date
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    Windom, MN
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    Just stumbled on this thread.

    Disclaimer - my younger sister is a school Superintendent in rural MN. I cover HS sports, so I deal with a lot of teachers and coaches. I also cover local school districts for the local news, so I deal with a lot of school Principals and Superintendents.

    The teachers I deal with - for the most part - are dedicated to their jobs. Are there some below-average teachers? yes. just as there are below-average people in every profession.

    As far as evaluation, my local school district is in the Q-Comp program. Q-comp provides incentives for teachers to improve their performance. There are multiple evaluations during the year, including evaluations by administrators and peer evaluations by veteran teachers. There is also a big emphasis on helping new teachers with mentoring and support. As noted, test scores are not the favored method to evaluate teacher performance. there is more emphasis on treating each student as an individual, and tracking the child's development over the course of a school year. That is hard to measure with the "one day, one test" type of standardized test.

    As far as letting parents evaluate teachers - I would say No +1000. I just see far too many parents who have blinders on about their own children. If the kid doesn't study and flunks a test, that becomes the teacher's fault - not the kid. It takes a rare parent to have the perspective to understand when their own child is at fault. most just refuse to see it.
    Like the parents who think their kid should be starting on the Varsity team even though the kid had a bad attitude and minimal talent.

  13. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by short ornery norwegian View Post
    Just stumbled on this thread.

    Disclaimer - my younger sister is a school Superintendent in rural MN. I cover HS sports, so I deal with a lot of teachers and coaches. I also cover local school districts for the local news, so I deal with a lot of school Principals and Superintendents.

    The teachers I deal with - for the most part - are dedicated to their jobs. Are there some below-average teachers? yes. just as there are below-average people in every profession.

    As far as evaluation, my local school district is in the Q-Comp program. Q-comp provides incentives for teachers to improve their performance. There are multiple evaluations during the year, including evaluations by administrators and peer evaluations by veteran teachers. There is also a big emphasis on helping new teachers with mentoring and support. As noted, test scores are not the favored method to evaluate teacher performance. there is more emphasis on treating each student as an individual, and tracking the child's development over the course of a school year. That is hard to measure with the "one day, one test" type of standardized test.

    As far as letting parents evaluate teachers - I would say No +1000. I just see far too many parents who have blinders on about their own children. If the kid doesn't study and flunks a test, that becomes the teacher's fault - not the kid. It takes a rare parent to have the perspective to understand when their own child is at fault. most just refuse to see it.
    Like the parents who think their kid should be starting on the Varsity team even though the kid had a bad attitude and minimal talent.
    Sounds good and what I was advocating for in an earlier post. Not knowing anything about Minnesota’s particular evaluation system, I’d have serious questions about the real significance of this process, does it promote or reward good teachers and have consequences for poor teachers or is it just a facade for performance improvement? IMO, this system could easily be rendered useless if the teachers’ union protects poor teachers from consequences, which I suspect it would try to do.

    The only way this system could be evaluated is with results that were transparent to the public, at school board meetings, public reports and such. But I still would see a purpose for parental input in the form of complaints or recognition that would be validated or invalidated by such a system and school district investigation.

    Wow, has this thread been derailed.

  14. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section2 View Post
    Kids and parents are the customers. CNCs opinion on what is best for kids doesn’t matter. Your opinion matters with your own family and whoever’s opinion you can influence. It’s not a slippery slope at all. You aren’t smarter or better equipped to decide than a parent is of their child.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    HUH? I pointed out a couple of faults in YOUR faulty argument, without portraying any of my own opinions. How often do you feel the need to beat down your own strawman?

    Teacher evaluations are subjective at best, and largely popularity contests. My English teacher in middle school was wicked hard on her students as a teacher. And yet, she taught the subject of English extremely well. If kids got to evaluate their own teachers, my English teacher would have been among the first to go because she took her job of teaching seriously and didn't feel the need to coddle kids or be their friends. Under your system of Kids know best! Let them choose their teachers!, she'd be unemployed. Every system of subjective judgment has its flaws.
    Last edited by cncmin; 06-17-2019 at 07:58 PM.

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