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  1. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethomasp31 View Post
    Demry Croft? And you know the situation well enough to say Fleck unfairly punished him? I'm not going to pretend to know that I know enough about the situation....because I have no clue. But I have spend about the last 20 years working with young people, as a teacher and coach. There are usually at least two sides to every story. But I can't think of a time where a teacher or coach I know purposefully screwed a kid over.
    Unfairly? Sounds like a trap.
    I know the situation well enough to know that he was treated differently than others in (very) similar situations. And not just on the suspension. That was the question.


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  2. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethomasp31 View Post
    Demry Croft? And you know the situation well enough to say Fleck unfairly punished him? I'm not going to pretend to know that I know enough about the situation....because I have no clue. But I have spend about the last 20 years working with young people, as a teacher and coach. There are usually at least two sides to every story. But I can't think of a time where a teacher or coach I know purposefully screwed a kid over.
    I have no idea what happened with Demry, but I don't think anyone said "purposefully screwed a kid over", I think the argument is that it could have, potentially, been applying a different standard to different people.

    I've seen that countless times in my life.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoofin View Post
    Unfairly? Sounds like a trap.
    I know the situation well enough to know that he was treated differently than others in (very) similar situations. And not just on the suspension. That was the question.


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    No one said unfairly. Unevenly, yes.

    Out of curiosity, if the ball is the program, how many of the 11 fumbles this year ended with a benching? How about the 7 fumbles last year?

    There are many other examples. Croft is an easy one.


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    If we want to fix what happened, you need to fire Coyle and Kaler as well.

  4. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by caliGopher View Post
    No one said unfairly. Unevenly, yes.

    Out of curiosity, if the ball is the program, how many of the 11 fumbles this year ended with a benching? How about the 7 fumbles last year?

    There are many other examples. Croft is an easy one.


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    He wasn't the starting QB and he played at the end of that same game.

  5. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoofin View Post
    Unfairly? Sounds like a trap.
    I know the situation well enough to know that he was treated differently than others in (very) similar situations. And not just on the suspension. That was the question.


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    Please, let’s not dig up the old Croft discussions. Nobody knows the exact details and going off on a several page cat fight of making stuff up to fit an argument would be ridiculous.


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  6. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemy2u View Post
    Please, let’s not dig up the old Croft discussions. Nobody knows the exact details and going off on a several page cat fight of making stuff up to fit an argument would be ridiculous.


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    Someone asked for an example of uneven treatment and I provided one of a player PJ had zero problem naming to the press or benching because “the ball is the program”. If you don’t think DC11 was treated differently then you weren’t paying attention.


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  7. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemy2u View Post
    Please, let’s not dig up the old Croft discussions. Nobody knows the exact details and going off on a several page cat fight of making stuff up to fit an argument would be ridiculous.


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    It probably belongs in the “Demry Croft got screwed over” thread.

  8. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoofin View Post
    Unfairly? Sounds like a trap.
    I know the situation well enough to know that he was treated differently than others in (very) similar situations. And not just on the suspension. That was the question.


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    Well, like I said, I don't know what happened with DC11 other than reading some articles in a newspaper. So I'll talk in general, but it could be applied in many situations.

    Being fair doesn't mean being equal. Do all players play an equal number of plays or minutes, no of course not, that would take incentive away from improvement. If you want to apply fair/equal to suspensions and playing time, it's usually not about one thing. It's about a series of (bad) decisions made during practice, in the classroom, socially, during games, in conversations between the coach and player...I think you get the idea. I've seen many times when this happens kids and their parents don't understand that. As a coach and teacher you do what you can to help that kid start to make better decisions. It's nothing personal about you disliking the kid, it's about helping them grow so they can successful, not only in your program or classroom, but throughout their life.

    Like I said, I don't want to make this about DC11, because I know little about that situation. I'm just trying to give you a teacher/coaches perspective. I've coached the last 12 years at a high school varsity level as an assistant coach or head coach (not football, but a different sport) that is probably the easiest coaching job in the state. I've had very few problems and my kids are great. I also coached 8th grade football for 8 years where there were many more problems.

    The best advise I ever got for being a teacher (and coach) was during my first year coaching from the other coach. I had to talk to a kid who was making bad decisions. I asked the other coach what I should say, and he told me, "talk to him the way you would talk to your son. What would you say to him if he was making these decisions?"

  9. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoofin View Post
    Someone asked for an example of uneven treatment and I provided one of a player PJ had zero problem naming to the press or benching because “the ball is the program”. If you don’t think DC11 was treated differently then you weren’t paying attention.


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    I agree, I asked for an example. Let's move it past him.

  10. #235

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    Hopefully Williams will stay committed to the University of Minnesota. It would really help our defense. And no, Minnesota isn't the only university where he can have a great college experience.

    So I know Williams committed pretty late in the process. Like maybe a week or two before the early signing period. Was it always expected that he would not be signing during the early signing period, or did that came as a surprise to the Gopher staff? I also saw that he has visits lined up with Oregon and Tennessee, obviously we don't want to hear about a commitment to one of those schools right away, but if he doesn't commit to a school right after those visits, will that make you feel better or worse about the Gophers chances of keeping him as a player coming in next year.

  11. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethomasp31 View Post
    Hopefully Williams will stay committed to the University of Minnesota. It would really help our defense. And no, Minnesota isn't the only university where he can have a great college experience.

    So I know Williams committed pretty late in the process. Like maybe a week or two before the early signing period. Was it always expected that he would not be signing during the early signing period, or did that came as a surprise to the Gopher staff? I also saw that he has visits lined up with Oregon and Tennessee, obviously we don't want to hear about a commitment to one of those schools right away, but if he doesn't commit to a school right after those visits, will that make you feel better or worse about the Gophers chances of keeping him as a player coming in next year.
    Someone previously mentioned that his plan has always been to wait until the second signing period. As far as whether I feel better if he doesn't commit to a school right after the visits, yes I do. If he commits to another school at this point I'd say it's 99% over.

  12. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethomasp31 View Post
    Well, like I said, I don't know what happened with DC11 other than reading some articles in a newspaper. So I'll talk in general, but it could be applied in many situations.

    Being fair doesn't mean being equal. Do all players play an equal number of plays or minutes, no of course not, that would take incentive away from improvement. If you want to apply fair/equal to suspensions and playing time, it's usually not about one thing. It's about a series of (bad) decisions made during practice, in the classroom, socially, during games, in conversations between the coach and player...I think you get the idea. I've seen many times when this happens kids and their parents don't understand that. As a coach and teacher you do what you can to help that kid start to make better decisions. It's nothing personal about you disliking the kid, it's about helping them grow so they can successful, not only in your program or classroom, but throughout their life.

    Like I said, I don't want to make this about DC11, because I know little about that situation. I'm just trying to give you a teacher/coaches perspective. I've coached the last 12 years at a high school varsity level as an assistant coach or head coach (not football, but a different sport) that is probably the easiest coaching job in the state. I've had very few problems and my kids are great. I also coached 8th grade football for 8 years where there were many more problems.

    The best advise I ever got for being a teacher (and coach) was during my first year coaching from the other coach. I had to talk to a kid who was making bad decisions. I asked the other coach what I should say, and he told me, "talk to him the way you would talk to your son. What would you say to him if he was making these decisions?"
    Geez, what an insightful comment.

    Love how those know the situation well enough to judge that a coach was unfair in dealing with a player. They obviously were there in meetings and practice to know what was said and emphasized; to see and hear how the player reacted to instructions; and, most importantly, to see what the player said and did after the fumble.

    Obviously, a player was treated unfairly. Makes sense when you're a coach desperate for somebody to emerge as a capable QB to pick out one of the two possibilities and crap on him. Much more logical to pick the narrative that fits your agenda of PJ as basically dishonest.

  13. #238

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    Has a single person said unfair?
    Not sure why this is so difficult.


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  14. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoofin View Post
    Unfairly? Sounds like a trap.
    I know the situation well enough to know that he was treated differently than others in (very) similar situations. And not just on the suspension. That was the question.


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    Who else was in a similar situation?

  15. #240

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    Quote Originally Posted by btowngopher View Post
    Who else was in a similar situation?
    Connor Rhoda dropped a fumble the very next week and picked it up instead of falling on it. Wasn’t benched. Many players have fumbled since. Not benched. Seems rather similar.

    Kamal Martin was suspended for violation of team rules. PJ refused to release his name. PJ had no problem naming DC to the media when he suspended him for violation of team rules. Neither event resulted in any crime or police report. Seems rather similar.

    I never said unfair (in fact mentioned that isn’t what I was saying). I never said it was a big deal. A poster asked for an example of uneven discipline and I provided one. I shouldn’t be surprised posters turn it into a whole different argument.


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