A review of the 2015 Recruiting Class...


What class would you have picked to evaluate?

You are trying to push a particular narrative, which is why you picked the 2015 class. I don't really have a particular narrative to push, so I guess I probably wouldn't have done it. I have nothing against the thread, I was just pointing out that we all know precisely why you picked the 2015 class.

Your general thesis (other than your obvious narrative) from the initial post seems to be that "recruiting rankings matter". I guess. So if you are trying to get me to jump back into that tired old debate, I don't know, there are tons of classes that seem to prove that narrative and many classes that do not. I generally agree with the sentiment, but I think a lot can go into how good a class ends up being that aren't reflected in the numerical ranking, sort of like "recruiting ranking externalities".
 

Everyone likes to discuss where the 2019 class will end up ranked, but I find it interesting to go back and evaluate past classes and how they performed. The 2015 class was Jerry's final class, and these are players that are this year's seniors and redshirt juniors. The class was ranked 63rd in the nation, and 13th in the B1G. Here is how it stacks up: https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2015-Football/Commits/

Of the 24 commits, 14 weren't on the roster this season: Dior Johnson (#1), Tyler Moore (#3), Charlie Rogers (#4), Demry Croft #5, Ray Buford, Hunter Register, Ted Stieber, Jaylen Waters, James Johannesson, Nick Connelly, Mose Hall, Zo Craighton, Kiante Hardin, Rashad Still.

Rogers was a JUCO so he never would have been in the program this long, and Connelly retired and passed away. 3 guys were forced to leave due to the scandal. We also have a new coach, so higher than normal attrition would be expected, but this still seems really high. Of the 10 remaining players:


Quinn Oseland: back-up, very little playing time
Shannon Brooks: Stud, home run recruit but has been plagued by injuries
Bronson Dovich: back-up, very little playing time
Winston D: occasional starter, solid contributor
Antonio Shenault: occasional starter, solid contributor
Jonathan Femi-Cole: very little playing time
Bryce Witham: minimal playing time
Jacob Huff: multi-year starter, strong contributor
Julian Huff: solid contributor and special teams player
Colton Beebe: solid contributor and special teams player

So for the entire class, we have two players that could be considered regular starters: Brooks and Jacob Huff. And Brooks has been injured more than he's been healthy. 3 guys that were occasional starters in Winston D, Shenault, and Beebe. 2 that didn't start but were valuable contributors in Huff and Witham.


Bottom line, who knows what this class could have looked like without the attrition, but the recruiting rankings seem to have gotten it right. There just weren't enough impact players in the class.

So I'm confused what your point is? Is appears you're trying to make a point that recruiting rankings matter, although factors other than ability were at play for 50% of the players that were not on the roster this year, so yeah, not sure if that's the point you were really trying to make.

We're currently 8th overall, but the schools below us have as few as 5 players less than us and as many as 11, so it seems, barring some change, we'll end up lower than 8th in the final rankings. Is that the point your making? If so, I agree it's a concern, but again, the process isn't finished, and we don't know how things will turn out.

Or are you making a case that bringing in the 13th ranking talent in the Big Ten is a problem. Which I don't think anyone disagrees with. You may want to check that our average ranking is currently 13th in the Big Ten. Is that the point you're making? Because, yeah. That's a good point for the guy who is supposed to change the Gophers fortune as a recruiter, but somehow, I don't think this is your point.
 

Kill had topped out and he needed to be gone. imagine had we given into that country fried dictator and gave him some dumb football team overseer role?
 




So I'm confused what your point is? Is appears you're trying to make a point that recruiting rankings matter, although factors other than ability were at play for 50% of the players that were not on the roster this year, so yeah, not sure if that's the point you were really trying to make.

We're currently 8th overall, but the schools below us have as few as 5 players less than us and as many as 11, so it seems, barring some change, we'll end up lower than 8th in the final rankings. Is that the point your making? If so, I agree it's a concern, but again, the process isn't finished, and we don't know how things will turn out.

Or are you making a case that bringing in the 13th ranking talent in the Big Ten is a problem. Which I don't think anyone disagrees with. You may want to check that our average ranking is currently 13th in the Big Ten. Is that the point you're making? Because, yeah. That's a good point for the guy who is supposed to change the Gophers fortune as a recruiter, but somehow, I don't think this is your point.

My overall point is that we had one guy from this entire class that was a full-time starter this year. That sucks and won’t lend itself to the type of success we want.
 





2016 are redshirt sophomores this year or Juniors. The 2015 class is a key reason we didn't have more depth this year.

The question was asked what class would you like me (JG) to evaluate. I simply responded requesting an evaluation of the class of 2016. Was that an error on my part?
 

The question was asked what class would you like me (JG) to evaluate. I simply responded requesting an evaluation of the class of 2016. Was that an error on my part?
Nope. I was just adding commentary.
 


My overall point is that we had one guy from this entire class that was a full-time starter this year. That sucks and won’t lend itself to the type of success we want.

Totally agree.

And yet we were a competent hire for DC from being 8-4 this year for as bad as the 2015 class ended up being due to injury, fatal illness, player misses, a coach that choose to show players the door for the sin of accepting a scholarship when offered, and an over zealous administration that turned a bad situation into a catastrophe for the university.

And quite amazingly if we’d hired a competent DC vs an unemployed friend of PJ Fleck, we might have gone bowling last year.

I know PJ Fleck doesn’t care if we win or go bowling in year zero, but given how young we are (haven’t you heard?) I wonder if a few extra weeks of practices might have helped that youth develop?


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No, it isn't.

Sure it is. How would I evaluate Philip Howard? He hasn't contributed anything so far, but that could change. How would I evaluate Winfield? We all know he's really good, but he can't stay on the field. Next year he could be an All-American, or his career might be over. Which players in the class potentially transfer after this season? We can say the 2016 class is significantly better than 2015, but it's too early to make a definitive evaluation. FWIW, it was also ranked significantly higher than 2015.
 

Some of you will turn anything into a way to criticize PJ. JG spends the time to see what impact a specific class has on the team and he gets accused of having alternative motives. It looks like not very many of those upperclassmen are major contributors to the current team. I have the feeling that the U hasn’t had a lot of upperclassmen as major contributors for a long time. It would be nice to do this every year to see how it changes. And of course, any of you complaining about what year was picked are free to do the work for any other year.


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Some of you will turn anything into a way to criticize PJ. JG spends the time to see what impact a specific class has on the team and he gets accused of having alternative motives. It looks like not very many of those upperclassmen are major contributors to the current team. I have the feeling that the U hasn’t had a lot of upperclassmen as major contributors for a long time. It would be nice to do this every year to see how it changes. And of course, any of you complaining about what year was picked are free to do the work for any other year.


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Hi alchemy2u, You seem a bit confused but I'll try and help you muddle through. JG asked Loblaw what class he would choose, Lodlaw didn't bite but I did. I asked about 2016. There is no way this is a criticism about Fleck, it's just a question. JG has retracted his response and now says too early. Weak.
 

Some of you will turn anything into a way to criticize PJ. JG spends the time to see what impact a specific class has on the team and he gets accused of having alternative motives. It looks like not very many of those upperclassmen are major contributors to the current team. I have the feeling that the U hasn’t had a lot of upperclassmen as major contributors for a long time. It would be nice to do this every year to see how it changes. And of course, any of you complaining about what year was picked are free to do the work for any other year.


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How on earth is any of this anyone trying to criticize PJ? JG does have an alternative motive. A very transparent one. It also has nothing to do with PJ. No wonder some think PJ is criticized too much. Hard not to think that when you see it in everything.


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How on earth is any of this anyone trying to criticize PJ? JG does have an alternative motive. A very transparent one. It also has nothing to do with PJ. No wonder some think PJ is criticized too much. Hard not to think that when you see it in everything.


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They are hyper sensitive...
 

How on earth is any of this anyone trying to criticize PJ? JG does have an alternative motive. A very transparent one. It also has nothing to do with PJ. No wonder some think PJ is criticized too much. Hard not to think that when you see it in everything.


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What’s my motive? I’m dying to hear it.
 

What’s my motive? I’m dying to hear it.

To provide “Don’t forget the axe!” the insider info that he longs for.


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Totally agree.

And yet we were a competent hire for DC from being 8-4 this year for as bad as the 2015 class ended up being due to injury, fatal illness, player misses, a coach that choose to show players the door for the sin of accepting a scholarship when offered, and an over zealous administration that turned a bad situation into a catastrophe for the university.

And quite amazingly if we’d hired a competent DC vs an unemployed friend of PJ Fleck, we might have gone bowling last year.

I know PJ Fleck doesn’t care if we win or go bowling in year zero, but given how young we are (haven’t you heard?) I wonder if a few extra weeks of practices might have helped that youth develop?


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Robb Smith was the DC of Arkansas when Fleck hired him. Smith had a fantastic defense his first year with Arkansas, but his second two years there were disappointing, as were his two years here.
 

Robb Smith was the DC of Arkansas when Fleck hired him. Smith had a fantastic defense his first year with Arkansas, but his second two years there were disappointing, as were his two years here.

I think it's fairly common knowledge that Smith would have been, at least temporarily, unemployed if we hadn't hired him. He was on his way out at Arkansas.
 

That class hasn't "aged well." Lots of guys gone and not many top NCAA power conference players among the list of guys still here. But, we had a scandal in there, we had a coaching change, and as is often the case with a coaching change: different "systems" now in place. Kill had a reputation for "coaching up" his lower rated recruits and it is also possible this attrition was at least partially due to Kill leaving and a cross section of guys originally brought in to play in a different culture.
 

I think it's fairly common knowledge that Smith would have been, at least temporarily, unemployed if we hadn't hired him. He was on his way out at Arkansas.

I'm sure he wouldn't have been unemployed long, and I don't think he will be now. He's been employed in some capacity in college or the nfl every year for the past 2 decades.
 

Hi alchemy2u, You seem a bit confused but I'll try and help you muddle through. JG asked Loblaw what class he would choose, Lodlaw didn't bite but I did. I asked about 2016. There is no way this is a criticism about Fleck, it's just a question. JG has retracted his response and now says too early. Weak.

No, I wasn’t just talking about your post. I was reading a thread that evaluates the class of 2015 and there are all of these cryptic hints if some sort of hidden motive (#22, #25, #30, #32, #41). And then posters saying PJ just wanted to hire a friend and doesn’t want to win (#43). I may have assumed the wrong hidden motive, but can’t we just appreciate the info that JG provided. I know it leads to other discussions. JG felt it was appropriate to pick the 2015, if others want a different class than they are more than free to do the work. He said he will do the 2016 next year when he thinks it is applicable.
 

Sure it is. How would I evaluate Philip Howard? He hasn't contributed anything so far, but that could change. How would I evaluate Winfield? We all know he's really good, but he can't stay on the field. Next year he could be an All-American, or his career might be over. Which players in the class potentially transfer after this season? We can say the 2016 class is significantly better than 2015, but it's too early to make a definitive evaluation. FWIW, it was also ranked significantly higher than 2015.



How could you possibly evaluate Shannon Brooks?
 

How could you possibly evaluate Shannon Brooks?

I don't know what this means? If it's sarcasm as to how could we not be in the position to evaluate Brooks, it's pretty simple. Right now, the story on Brooks is that he is an ultra-talented player who has been riddled with injuries and hasn't been able to contribute meaningfully the last 2 seasons. His career could be over, or he could rush for 1500 yards next season and be All-B1G. Since no one knows the answer to this, I'm not sure how to grade his Gopher career. Yet.
 




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