Where my Jelly Fam H8ers at?

IW's body language and attitude is everything. We don't know the specifics as to why he didn't play in the 2nd half. If I was coaching I would have him on the end of the bench if his attitude/comments caused issues during the first half or at halftime. This whole thing is all on IW. My guess is that it is all an attitude issue and Coach Pitino is not going to bring that out in the media. If IW wants to be a team player and successfully contribute like his ability shows he can then he will need to address his attitude and start listening to his coaches. I'm hoping that he will and reach his potential.
 

Really??! My son was trying to get it together in his school work at IW's age in Community College and now is at the U of Chicago in grad school. Young men this age have various things to deal with to become productive and effective. It isn't coddling to work to find the key. But maybe that isnt in the coach's wheel house.

I've been pro-Pitino, but this one is changing my mind. He brought an imperfect PG here and he (Pitino) is the one who seems to have lost interest - and he's getting the big bucks to produce. Then his dad starts dropping hints about IW not working out. It concerns me that we're blaming the kid. Player development is key for a school like Minnesota. Can't just throw in the towel on a major skill position player.
You don't help a basketball player by rewarding him for poor play by playing him more. That sends a really bad message to the team.
Pitino can get Washington assistance with a sports psychologist, but putting him on the court while he pouts is not a good move for the team.
Washington can work his way back into more playing time. There is ample time with all these home games to show coaches he's getting better.
This team needs a point guard who can work this out in practice. Games are times to show what you have trained for in practice.
 

IW's body language and attitude is everything. We don't know the specifics as to why he didn't play in the 2nd half. If I was coaching I would have him on the end of the bench if his attitude/comments caused issues during the first half or at halftime. This whole thing is all on IW. My guess is that it is all an attitude issue and Coach Pitino is not going to bring that out in the media. If IW wants to be a team player and successfully contribute like his ability shows he can then he will need to address his attitude and start listening to his coaches. I'm hoping that he will and reach his potential.
Right
 

Who starts on Tuesday in Dupree’s absence? IW, Stull or Hurt? Probably not Michael. Will be interesting.


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I remember starting out in my career, you were given a little carrot to try and get you going, learn to walk, and then give a little more, pretty soon you are jogging, eventually you have an employee that is highly productive and running at full speed, especially one that is talented, burying someone at the end of the bench against a cupcake means you have given up on them, punishing them because you don't like their demeanor or whatever is not the way to motivate, you have a chance against a team like Arkansas State to try and turn that around, playing the starter 35 minutes does not accomplish anything especially in a game like that, who knows maybe Pitino has given up on him completely and trying to get him to transfer.

Based on everything I have been reading and hearing in his radio interviews, Pitino has been telling IW every way he knows how since last season that he wants him to take fewer shots and concentrate on the other skills he has that can really help the team win games. So in his first six minutes in the Arkansaw State game IW takes four perimeter shots and misses them all. Pitino pulled him and he never got back into the game. In any other endeavor besides sports IW's play would be verging on insubordination. Either he is purposely ignoring what Pitino wants him to do, or he never learned that basketball is a team game because his youth and high school coaches let him get away with whatever he wanted to do.

Arkansas State was exactly the right game for Pitino to make an example out of him because he didn't need IW to help win the game. IW's problem is not that he needs more practice time or game minutes. He just needs to focus on playing the way Pitino wants him to play: ball movement, great passing, penetration when he has the opportunity, and don't turn the ball over. Ricky Rubio made a pretty nice NBA career out of playing that way because he couldn't make baskets. If IW doesn't get his act together pretty darn quickly Pitino will probably be only too happy to have him transfer after the season (if not before). If everything goes according to plan, IW will be spending a lot of time sitting on the end of the bench next year anyway.
 
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I think everyone is over-analyzing this. Players are in coaches doghouses all the time and for a variety of reasons. Right now, neither his play nor his attitude (on-court) warrant playing time. It's not like he's Jimmy Butler that plays well and ****s all over the rest of the team and it's not like he's Brady Rudrud who seemingly has a great attitude and is not good enough to play.

At this time, he is not being productive in any manner. I'm sure Pitino and his teammates are helping him behind the scenes but ultimately it's on him to fix himself.
 

In my experience, most coaches use the old carrot and stick approach.

You tell the player, if you do A, B and C, you'll get more playing time. If you don't do A, B and C, you'll be sitting on the bench. The coach coaches. He can't go out there and play. In the end, it's up to the player to decide. If IW wants more playing time, I suspect he knows - or darn well should know - what he has to do to earn it. and EARN is the key word. If he is unwilling or unable to do what he needs to do to earn more playing time, then he had better get used to sitting on the bench.

you don't play a guy to reward potential, or hope that playing time will solve the problem. you play a guy because he has demonstrated in practice that he knows what is expected of him, and is willing to do it.
 

In my experience, most coaches use the old carrot and stick approach.

You tell the player, if you do A, B and C, you'll get more playing time. If you don't do A, B and C, you'll be sitting on the bench. The coach coaches. He can't go out there and play. In the end, it's up to the player to decide. If IW wants more playing time, I suspect he knows - or darn well should know - what he has to do to earn it. and EARN is the key word. If he is unwilling or unable to do what he needs to do to earn more playing time, then he had better get used to sitting on the bench.

you don't play a guy to reward potential, or hope that playing time will solve the problem. you play a guy because he has demonstrated in practice that he knows what is expected of him, and is willing to do it.
Right
 

He tends to dribble in circles, killing ball movement, ensuring teammates can't get open. He dribbles too deep into the paint, gets stuck and has no out. He dribbles right at his teammates and draws defenders to his teammates, rather than away from them.

He takes absolutely horrible shots. He shoots with men in his face, when teammates are open. He shoots early in the shot clock, with the lead. He races up court with numbers and jacks up shots, negating the numbers advantage and ensuring we have no rebounders under the basket. He's got a nice stroke, he just makes such horrible decisions that he can't be trusted with the ball when it matters. The only one who can fix this is IW, but so far he's shown no real inclination to try.

Its obvious he needs to play under control and take better shots. That said, I think his playing time is more a function of his attitude and defense. Truthfully, in many games earlier this year, the offense flowed much better with him on the floor as he is the only true pg. Often times, when we struggle its because Coffee and Dupree are not pgs and it shows with the lack of flow. When at this best, IW breaks down the defense and finds the open man (a few high assist games earlier this year) and gets the team moving in transition. At his worst, he takes bad shots and has poor transition defense and pouts. An engaged IW is 100% a high major pg. It would be nice to get an engaged IW. Thats up to him.
 



I agree, I could see end of year with Carr coming back (I wish we had Carr this year - what a difference he would likely make). Bad Gopher sounded like he was hearing something about mid-season, so was just curious about that.


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It's purely speculation, but it's from people who, when they say something, you sit up and listen. I personally don't expect him to transfer at the end of the semester, but it's not out of the question. He'd have to have somewhere to go, which means it would probably have had to be in the works for at least weeks.
 

I still don't get the "bad body language" trope against the guy. Shoulders back and up straight the only way someone can walk???

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It's purely speculation, but it's from people who, when they say something, you sit up and listen. I personally don't expect him to transfer at the end of the semester, but it's not out of the question. He'd have to have somewhere to go, which means it would probably have had to be in the works for at least weeks.

Got it - thanks.


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Pitino is a player's coach. If IW is getting benched- he has it coming. And face it, we all know that he does. He can be a really high end player- I love his potential. I would bet that Pitino sat down with IW and discussed what the issues are, how good IW can be and how he can get back on the court and eventually run this team. Pitino is on the hot seat and he has no point guard so it's not like he wants to run IW off- he wants him to change how he plays.

In Saturday's game IW came in and got up 4 shots (all missed) in 6 minutes and the team went flat while he was out there. Ark State started scoring. It wasn't all IWs fault but he was a part of it.

I would not be at all surprised if Pitino challenged him to play harder than anyone in practice over the next few days and if he does- he gets the start Tuesday with Dupree gone. At some point IW needs to take the challenge or he isn't going to help the team.

Two guys who got pulled often for not playing within the system when they first got here under Clem Haskins were Melvin Newbern and Bobby Jackson......
 



At this point, all of these guys are in a developmental stage of their lives. The idea that this is 100% the kid ignores that fact. Or that everything can be accomplished with a carrot/stick approach regarding playing time. There's more to coaching than reward and punishment via playing time.

Seeing a player go backwards can't be all on them. As an educator, I think educators have to see when they are failing to make the needed connection to support success. Yes, its up to IW to make the internal connections - I'm in no way saying he should be coddled, but I'm seeing no interaction with the coaching staff during the game. At least Izzo connects, pleads, yells at all his players when they screw up - taking advantage of teachable moments. I'm not really seeing anyone on the coaching staff engaging. Have they given up? Maybe that was Ben Johnson's role.
 

Pitino quote from 11-9 after IW had 11 assists in an early game (Omaha?):


Isaiah Washington - 0 for 3 with challenged shots was the only real negative. Tends to get a little casual out there with his jumper and when he is dribbling. Other than that, I thought Isaiah was terrific. Came to me before the season and asked what he needed to do to start. I told him to play compete and play harder, especially on the defensive end. He's starting to force me to make tough decisions. I'm proud of his growth.
 

Pitino quote from 11-9 after IW had 11 assists in an early game (Omaha?):


Isaiah Washington - 0 for 3 with challenged shots was the only real negative. Tends to get a little casual out there with his jumper and when he is dribbling. Other than that, I thought Isaiah was terrific. Came to me before the season and asked what he needed to do to start. I told him to play compete and play harder, especially on the defensive end. He's starting to force me to make tough decisions. I'm proud of his growth.
No doubt Pitino knows what he wants and communicates it. But can he educe it? That's the big question, and its important for Pitino to prove he can.
 

No doubt Pitino knows what he wants and communicates it. But can he educe it? That's the big question, and its important for Pitino to prove he can.

You seem to think Pitino has failed IW for some reason. I have to believe that not many other posters are going to be convinced Pitino is a good or bad coach based on the quality of IW's playing career with the Gophers. They are going to look far more at how much success Pitino has with Daniel Oturo, Gabe Kalscheur, Jarvis Omersa, and the recruits that come after them.
 
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No doubt Pitino knows what he wants and communicates it. But can he educe it? That's the big question, and its important for Pitino to prove he can.

True. And of course, the problem is that his body of work doesn't offer enough proof yet. If Izzo had IW and sat him down or even sent him packing, no one would question it. But then again, Izzo isn't recruiting guys like IW because he is now in a position to pick and choose. You win and the snowball of positive things that happens, grows.

Until you have extended success, everything you do comes under scrutiny. We have seen Pitino "get to" certain players- like Mo Walker lost about 50 pounds and became a really nice center. Murphy and Mason really developed and thrived. But then he took risks on a bunch of guys who didn't make it- like Squirrel Morris, McNeil, Dorsey, and others. The measure of a coach is not whether you get to one guy or not, because you won't get to all of them. It ends up being about team success year in and year out and he just hasn't had that yet.
 

Isaiah Washington

How much longer of a leash does he have? Benched after sucking the first 7 minutes last game, still terrible shot selection, and terrible body language.
 

Pitino needs to let him play through it. IW is a confidence player and fear of being yanked is likely impacting his play.

Not all players respond positively to consistently negative input. Regarding body language, I think its overrated.
 

I wish we would start more threads complaining about him.

If the OP thinks he had a long leash on Saturday...I'd love to see a short leash. Not even allowed to dress for the game? Can't be in Minneapolis for the game? Had to watch it from the St. Paul Bookstore?
 

IW has become quite the punching bag. Its going to be a challenge to make the tourney this year not matter what but without IW playing at or above last-years B1G level I don't think its going to happen. He's the only player that can consistently generate easy looks for others.
 

Pitino needs to let him play through it. IW is a confidence player and fear of being yanked is likely impacting his play.

Not all players respond positively to consistently negative input. Regarding body language, I think its overrated.
He can play through it in practice. Show the coaches there and then earn back the opportunity.
 

I wish we would start more threads complaining about him.

If the OP thinks he had a long leash on Saturday...I'd love to see a short leash. Not even allowed to dress for the game? Can't be in Minneapolis for the game? Had to watch it from the St. Paul Bookstore?

:) He has a 6 to 7 minute leash, as far as I can tell.....or 4 shots whichever comes first.
 


I wish we would start more threads complaining about him.

If the OP thinks he had a long leash on Saturday...I'd love to see a short leash. Not even allowed to dress for the game? Can't be in Minneapolis for the game? Had to watch it from the St. Paul Bookstore?

From a counter stool at Al's Breakfast.
 

Pitino needs to let him play through it. IW is a confidence player and fear of being yanked is likely impacting his play.

Not all players respond positively to consistently negative input. Regarding body language, I think its overrated.

That's the opposite of how sports work. You earn more playing time by playing well, or at least showing you are committed to playing the way the coach tells you to.
 


At this point, obviously IW is not ready to listen to anybody on the Gophers. I'm sure nobody has given up but I think you can be sure teammates like Murphy and Coffey have had heart to heart conversations with IW encouraging him to listen to the coaches. He has ignored them too. The assistant coaches have all taken their swing at connecting with him. IW just isn't ready to listen. It may not happen at Minnesota. I don't think that means Pitino can't develop players.

Pitino has also mentioned IW has a lot of "mentors" behind the scenes...their message very likely conflicts with the team's wishes and these could be the people he is listening to. In high school it is parents who sabotage their kid by bad mouthing the coach telling the player the coach doesn't know what's best for you. "Listen to your dad." It isn't always black and white easy or simple, but I'll bet there are more "voices" involved than just Coach Pitino in IW's head.

And it could all change the next game. There's no predicting these kinds of things.
 

So what you think of Rick Pitino's comment prior to the start of the season?
 




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