Where my Jelly Fam H8ers at?

Coffey and Kalscheur started as freshmen. Washington may not even start as a junior...on a team that's thin at point guard.

We also had a guy named Nate Mason last year at Point too. Argument can be made about this year, but also give GK some credit on taking the spot too.
 



Lots of speculation about Washington transferring now. That would kill this team's chances at a NCAA berth. Gophers need him to be a contributor and at least provide depth.
 

Lots of speculation about Washington transferring now. That would kill this team's chances at a NCAA berth. Gophers need him to be a contributor and at least provide depth.

Any credible sources, or chatter on boards?


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Any credible sources, or chatter on boards?


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I was at the game yesterday. IW looked so disinterested.. I was very surprised he didn't see the floor at all in the 2nd. I understand Pitino wanting to send a message, but IW needs to build some confidence - sitting on the bench and watching Stull get minutes has to be killing him. I can't see him transferring mid-year, but maybe next year if he's not seeing minutes this year and knowing Carr is eligible next season. I hope he sticks it out. I still think he can be successful.
 


I was at the game yesterday. IW looked so disinterested.. I was very surprised he didn't see the floor at all in the 2nd. I understand Pitino wanting to send a message, but IW needs to build some confidence - sitting on the bench and watching Stull get minutes has to be killing him. I can't see him transferring mid-year, but maybe next year if he's not seeing minutes this year and knowing Carr is eligible next season. I hope he sticks it out. I still think he can be successful.

Where would he transfer to, a mid/low-major? He's currently on a high-major team that's desperately thin at PG, where he can't get minutes after plenty of time in the system, shows bad body language/pouts & brings a bit of a social media circus with him. What high major is going to be interested in that?

He needs to check his ego, listen to the coaches, learn how to play the college game & he can be successful. Doing it his way, is never going to work at this level.
 

I was at the game yesterday. IW looked so disinterested.. I was very surprised he didn't see the floor at all in the 2nd. I understand Pitino wanting to send a message, but IW needs to build some confidence - sitting on the bench and watching Stull get minutes has to be killing him. I can't see him transferring mid-year, but maybe next year if he's not seeing minutes this year and knowing Carr is eligible next season. I hope he sticks it out. I still think he can be successful.

I agree, I could see end of year with Carr coming back (I wish we had Carr this year - what a difference he would likely make). Bad Gopher sounded like he was hearing something about mid-season, so was just curious about that.


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Just thinking out loud - Washington was recruited by Kimani Young. Young was an East Coast guy with a lot of ties to the NY area and the AAU scene out there. So, I wonder what impact it had on Washington to have Young leave the staff.

That is NOT trying to make excuses. Washington is responsible for what he does - and doesn't do. But, if you're dealing with a kid who is experiencing failure, or facing challenges for the first time in his life, and the coach he was closest to has left the program, that could present an added complication.
 

What a joke how the bench was handed in the 2nd half of a 12-15 point lead whole 2nd half.

Isn’t your goal to develop so your ready for big ten play. We know Oturo and Murphy can’t stay out of foul day trouble and Coffey and Mcbrayer are always hurt yet bench gets zero run in 2nd half.

I don’t blame IW but for transferring at this point what a joke.
 

Lots of speculation about Washington transferring now. That would kill this team's chances at a NCAA berth. Gophers need him to be a contributor and at least provide depth.

That's why Pitino holding him out in the second half of a game like this can have disastrous impacts, against Nebraska no problem but not a cupcake non conference game especially when the starters aren't playing that well, same holds for Omersa, he's not going to get in against Wisconsin, Michigan, etc., get them some experience now when you can.
 



Isn’t your goal to develop so your ready for big ten play.

I'm assuming you meant to insert "the bench" between develop and so.

I would think that should be a primary goal particularly for a coach who has experienced recurrently bad consequences from inadequate bench play during his tenure.

But, as we've learned from repeated exposures, Pitino can be quite the stubborn fellow (somewhat of a contrast to Fleck who has shown some willingness to revise his prior decisions).

Washington is a pretty willing passer and is capable of making moves that draw defenders away from other players. That's got to help players like Hurt, Omersa, Stockman, and Stull who need some space to get off a shot. It's not like Washington is a shot hog. Most of the shots he takes are reasonable shots for him to take. He just has a lousy conversion rate.
 

Where would he transfer to, a mid/low-major?

Well, maybe, but there are lots of D1 schools within a couple of hours of NYC and I'm pretty confident he could find multiple schools willing to take him as a transfer.
 

I like Washington, but he has some growing up to do. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, he could one day end up as one of the best point guards we've ever had... but the problem with him is he's from NY... He made himself into a playground legend... which doesn't bode well for college basketball's game. You can see he has the talent, but he's finally facing organized teams. Teams who really play defense. So his playground style will not work in college. Also, his fame has gotten to him... he truly believes he is Russel Westbrook or something, because there are times where he tries to take over the game and hardly sees his teammates at all. He'll run up the court and beat his own teammates, and be out of control or he'll dribble around and shoot the ball without any of his teammates ever touching it. He has to learn his limits, he has to learn his teammates abilities, and he has to what he is good at to help the team. So many times, he'll get subbed in... run up and down the floor shooting bricks and losing the ball by himself, and then get yanked. I think he's a good kid, just someone that let his fame get into his head. He is still young, hopefully he'll figure it out soon. If we had more options, I doubt he sniffs more than 10 minutes a game.

Hard to see Washington ever being good when he has zero basketball IQ and a jumpshot more broken and ineffective than most fat middle aged guys you see playing pickup ball at your local gym.
 

Well, maybe, but there are lots of D1 schools within a couple of hours of NYC and I'm pretty confident he could find multiple schools willing to take him as a transfer.

I could see him transferring to Buffalo, Hoffstra, Albany, St. Francis, somewhere like that maybe? I'd prefer he just get with the program and make an effort to play team basketball.
 

I'm assuming you meant to insert "the bench" between develop and so.

I would think that should be a primary goal particularly for a coach who has experienced recurrently bad consequences from inadequate bench play during his tenure.

But, as we've learned from repeated exposures, Pitino can be quite the stubborn fellow (somewhat of a contrast to Fleck who has shown some willingness to revise his prior decisions).

Washington is a pretty willing passer and is capable of making moves that draw defenders away from other players. That's got to help players like Hurt, Omersa, Stockman, and Stull who need some space to get off a shot. It's not like Washington is a shot hog. Most of the shots he takes are reasonable shots for him to take. He just has a lousy conversion rate.

He tends to dribble in circles, killing ball movement, ensuring teammates can't get open. He dribbles too deep into the paint, gets stuck and has no out. He dribbles right at his teammates and draws defenders to his teammates, rather than away from them.

He takes absolutely horrible shots. He shoots with men in his face, when teammates are open. He shoots early in the shot clock, with the lead. He races up court with numbers and jacks up shots, negating the numbers advantage and ensuring we have no rebounders under the basket. He's got a nice stroke, he just makes such horrible decisions that he can't be trusted with the ball when it matters. The only one who can fix this is IW, but so far he's shown no real inclination to try.
 
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That's why Pitino holding him out in the second half of a game like this can have disastrous impacts, against Nebraska no problem but not a cupcake non conference game especially when the starters aren't playing that well, same holds for Omersa, he's not going to get in against Wisconsin, Michigan, etc., get them some experience now when you can.
Y'all sound like great parents.
"My kid is pouting...I better buy him a new toy so he quits pouting."
 

He tends to dribble in circles, killing ball movement, ensuring teammates can't get open. He dribbles too deep into the paint, gets stuck and has no out. He dribbles right at his teammates and draws defenders to his teammates, rather than away from them.

He takes absolutely horrible shots. He shoots with men in his face, when teammates are open. He shoots early in the shot clock, with the lead. He races up court with numbers and jacks up shots, negating the numbers advantage and ensuring we have no rebounders under the basket. He's got a nice stroke, he just makes such horrible decisions that he can't be trusted with the ball when it matters. The only one who can fix this is IW, but so far he's shown no real inclination to try.

Agree with most of what you had to say. The one thing I will say is that you can see some definite improvements in his overall game from last season to this season but he still has a long ways to go to get to where he needs to be.
 

Agree with most of what you had to say. The one thing I will say is that you can see some definite improvements in his overall game from last season to this season but he still has a long ways to go to get to where he needs to be.

Maybe "no real inclination to try" was too strong? It just doesn't feel like he's bought into what Pitino's selling.
 

Good comments. You are right about his ability to get to the line, generally. I’m not one to cherry pick stats, but keep in mind 17 of his 68 free throws (~25%) came in a single game. Nonetheless he gets there way more frequently than IW, and his aggressiveness certainly is starting to pay off.

I think I’m just salty about all the complaints I see about IW. Sure he’s not where we all wanted at this point, but there is a ton of bias against him on this board because he’s not from Minnesota. I also think that fans are so used to watching the Twolves or whatever top 5 team is on ESPN that people forget that most college athletes are still learning the game and developing physically. Expectations are out of whack. Team performance and execution should be evaluated critically, but I’m fatigued at the all the negativity here that is focused on 19 year olds (admitting I play a part).



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I'm pretty sure that almost zero of the fans' angst regarding IW is that he's not from MN originally. It's his questionable play and questionable effort, and then add onto it the sulking attitude (which goes along with questionable effort). I have to ask, at what point does pride kick in to a gifted kid like this and he says, you know what, I'm going to show them just how good I can be? Because we have yet to see that kind of effort. His lackadaisical D is the part that sets me off more than anything else, as a Gopher fan.
 
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I'm pretty sure that almost zero of the fans' angst regarding IW is that he's not from MN originally. It's his questionable play and questionable effort, and then add onto it the sulking attitude (which goes along with questionable effort). I have to ask, at what point does pride kick in to a gifted kid like this and he says, you know what, I'm going to show them just how good I can be? Because we have yet to see that kind of effort. His lackadaisical D is the part that sets me off more than anything else, as a Gopher fan.

You have a fair take. Please read various threads and count how many references to NY you find. Also look for the locking down the boarder crowd. There’s more than a couple with the bias, but perhaps I’m falling into a troll hole. Nonetheless his play seems to be deteriorating on pace with his confidence.


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You have a fair take. Please read various threads and count how many references to NY you find. Also look for the locking down the boarder crowd. There’s more than a couple with the bias, but perhaps I’m falling into a troll hole. Nonetheless his play seems to be deteriorating on pace with his confidence.


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1. I would love to lock down the borders, because with the U being the only D-1 bball program in the state, if that were the case, the Gophers would consistently have a top-level program. That said, we all know that the elite kids tend to have their own reasons for playing elsewhere, so I don't expect such.
2. If IW were the stud we expected, this thread wouldn't exist, and everyone would love the NYC connection.
3. I think it's reasonable that people see too much of a "street ball" attitude in IW and not enough fundamental team basketball. This is on both himself and the coaches, IMO.
4. I do not think that benching IW is having the effect Pitino desires, and it seems it's having the opposite effect. Everyone responds differently. He's not motivated positively by being benched. Pitino needs a new approach, if he wants him to be the team PG of the future.
 

Y'all sound like great parents.
"My kid is pouting...I better buy him a new toy so he quits pouting."

I remember starting out in my career, you were given a little carrot to try and get you going, learn to walk, and then give a little more, pretty soon you are jogging, eventually you have an employee that is highly productive and running at full speed, especially one that is talented, burying someone at the end of the bench against a cupcake means you have given up on them, punishing them because you don't like their demeanor or whatever is not the way to motivate, you have a chance against a team like Arkansas State to try and turn that around, playing the starter 35 minutes does not accomplish anything especially in a game like that, who knows maybe Pitino has given up on him completely and trying to get him to transfer.
 

I remember starting out in my career, you were given a little carrot to try and get you going, learn to walk, and then give a little more, pretty soon you are jogging, eventually you have an employee that is highly productive and running at full speed, especially one that is talented, burying someone at the end of the bench against a cupcake means you have given up on them, punishing them because you don't like their demeanor or whatever is not the way to motivate, you have a chance against a team like Arkansas State to try and turn that around, playing the starter 35 minutes does not accomplish anything especially in a game like that, who knows maybe Pitino has given up on him completely and trying to get him to transfer.
Washington can change his demeanor. He's an adult. Work your way back in practice and give your coach a reason to play you. This is on Washington, not Pitino.
 

Anyone believe the team captains and other players haven't been talking with IW? It can't just be Pitino and the staff trying to make a B1G player out of him. He has a huge upside. I do not think we are likely too ever see it. I hope I am wrong.
 

A few comments:
1) NY kids who are that good don’t end up here. There’s a reason that a bunch of more prominent schools closer to where he lives passed on him.
2) He was a top five social media player and probably a top 200 actual player.
3) I think he’s smart and has some talent but he doesn’t have enough talent to win a battle of wills with his coaches.
4) I think Pitino is being pretty honest about him and with him.
5) There is a player in there. Not an NBA player, but somebody who can make a difference on a B1G team.
6) We really need him this year and they are very close to splitting from him. It would be a shame.
7) If he doesn’t make it in hoops, he understands how to promote himself and social media. He has vision. He should be able to make a living.


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It can be tough deciding what to so in terms of playing time for a coach. If the coach feels like Washington isn't doing what hes told, then it is fair to bench him. If he is doing everything asked of him, and the problem is just that his shot isn't falling or something like that, that is a different issue .
 

Washington can change his demeanor. He's an adult. Work your way back in practice and give your coach a reason to play you. This is on Washington, not Pitino.
Really??! My son was trying to get it together in his school work at IW's age in Community College and now is at the U of Chicago in grad school. Young men this age have various things to deal with to become productive and effective. It isn't coddling to work to find the key. But maybe that isnt in the coach's wheel house.

I've been pro-Pitino, but this one is changing my mind. He brought an imperfect PG here and he (Pitino) is the one who seems to have lost interest - and he's getting the big bucks to produce. Then his dad starts dropping hints about IW not working out. It concerns me that we're blaming the kid. Player development is key for a school like Minnesota. Can't just throw in the towel on a major skill position player.
 




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