2016 Claeys, 2017 Lucia, 2018 Pitino

I agree if he doesn't make the dance this year, his seat is probably getting hot. That said, this program never gets anywhere because we are constantly rebuilding things. Let someone have some time to build it up. I have a feeling this freshman class from this season will have some success.

Look at the football program? Changing coaches all the time leaves the program in a constant state of flux. You fire Pitino, be ready for 3-4 more years of being terrible until it's "rebuilt" again. I'd rather they find someone to stick with and let them build something.

Also, I don't think it's the coach, I really don't. Look around the landscape of college sports. The best programs let kids that aren't smart into their schools, make sure they have "passing" schoolwork and likely pay them or give them things. Here, small things happen and our valiant University is quick to throw players under the bus. You want high level athletic programs in Football and Basketball, you have to support your kids. It doesn't seem right, but it is just the way it is.

I think next year is going to be somewhat of a rebuilding year anyways. And it won't take 3-4 years. Hire the right guy and it can be done quicker than that.

Pitino has had plenty of time. He's used up all of his "we'll be better next year" and "I'm young, give me a chance to grow as a coach" cards. If he can't get it done this year then it's time to cut him loose. As long as Coyle has a plan for who will be our next coach (and I trust him much more than I did Mega Tongue), then we need to move sooner rather than later. Not saying we need to make a move in-season unless things go totally off the rails, but after the season ends.
 

Interesting how quickly people react positively or negatively based on small sample sizes. Or even one game. Last night they got outplayed, out-coached, and shot very poorly. It happens. Overall, most of us would have been happy with a 5-1 record given all the new players, players coming off injury, missing Curry, schedule, etc. etc.

Similarly, the football team wins one game and all GopherHole nation wants to give PJ Fleck a lifetime contract. This despite a 3-6 conference record which none of us would have considered a successful season back in August.

Maybe we should consider the bigger picture a little more frequently.
 

Interesting how quickly people react positively or negatively based on small sample sizes. Or even one game. Last night they got outplayed, out-coached, and shot very poorly. It happens. Overall, most of us would have been happy with a 5-1 record given all the new players, players coming off injury, missing Curry, schedule, etc. etc.

Similarly, the football team wins one game and all GopherHole nation wants to give PJ Fleck a lifetime contract. This despite a 3-6 conference record which none of us would have considered a successful season back in August.

Maybe we should consider the bigger picture a little more frequently.

It's not the end of the world to lay an egg on the road. It's just pretty hard to watch last night, or even the A&M or Washington games, and see this team going into Happy Valley, Iowa City or Evanston and winning many games.
 

Although the only thing I'm basing that off of is what the announcers were saying last night; BC isn't listed in any early bracketology, but both announcers seemed pretty confident that BC would be in the discussion to make the NCAA Tournament.

That's not what i heard. It was more like, "not so fast" when the idea of BC making the NCAAs came up.
 

Interesting how quickly people react positively or negatively based on small sample sizes. Or even one game. Last night they got outplayed, out-coached, and shot very poorly. It happens. Overall, most of us would have been happy with a 5-1 record given all the new players, players coming off injury, missing Curry, schedule, etc. etc.

Similarly, the football team wins one game and all GopherHole nation wants to give PJ Fleck a lifetime contract. This despite a 3-6 conference record which none of us would have considered a successful season back in August.

Maybe we should consider the bigger picture a little more frequently.

The big picture is one of Pitino’s main problems.

5 years
1 NCAA tournament bid
.344 B1G win percentage

Fleck is in year 2.
Pitino is in year 6.

If Fleck only has two postseason appearances after 5 seasons he’ll be on the hot seat too. And rightfully so.
 


I agree if he doesn't make the dance this year, his seat is probably getting hot. That said, this program never gets anywhere because we are constantly rebuilding things. Let someone have some time to build it up. I have a feeling this freshman class from this season will have some success.

Look at the football program? Changing coaches all the time leaves the program in a constant state of flux. You fire Pitino, be ready for 3-4 more years of being terrible until it's "rebuilt" again. I'd rather they find someone to stick with and let them build something.

Also, I don't think it's the coach, I really don't. Look around the landscape of college sports. The best programs let kids that aren't smart into their schools, make sure they have "passing" schoolwork and likely pay them or give them things. Here, small things happen and our valiant University is quick to throw players under the bus. You want high level athletic programs in Football and Basketball, you have to support your kids. It doesn't seem right, but it is just the way it is.

This is crazy talk.

This is Pitino's 6th season and his record (overall, conference, everything) is objectively terrible.

He's a likeable guy and has recruited decently. But we need to go .500 minimum in B1G play this season or he should be gone.
 

And I say that as someone who has faith in the talent on this roster (despite an obvious hole or two). At bare minimum we need to be around the bubble this season or it'll be time to cut bait.
 

Let's see how the season plays out.

the thing about college hoops - compared to football - is that one or two recruits can change a program in a hurry. In FB, you have to have the numbers. In hoops, you land the right recruit or 2, and you transform your team overnight. I am normally not a fan of 1-and-dones, but if Pitino can someone land Matthew Hurt, I could live with him being a 1-and-done if it means the Gophers have a big year next year.

The MN kid I would really want is Suggs. I just don't know what chance the Gophers have of landing him.

(and FWIW, a guy I know in SE MN says Matthew Hurt is not exactly a Rhodes Scholar, if you get my drift.........)
 

This is crazy talk.

This is Pitino's 6th season and his record (overall, conference, everything) is objectively terrible.

He's a likeable guy and has recruited decently. But we need to go .500 minimum in B1G play this season or he should be gone.

I just don't know if I can stand to start over again, I am sick of starting over!!!!��
 



The big picture is one of Pitino’s main problems.

5 years
1 NCAA tournament bid
.344 B1G win percentage

Fleck is in year 2.
Pitino is in year 6.

If Fleck only has two postseason appearances after 5 seasons he’ll be on the hot seat too. And rightfully so.

Especially when you only have to be .500 to go to a bowl!
 

The only way Pitino avoids being fired with a sub .500 conference record this year is if Matthew Hurt reenacts this movie scene:

 

I really want to see Suggs also, Pitino and Fleck need to work out the two sport thing and we could maybe get him.
 

The big picture is one of Pitino’s main problems.

5 years
1 NCAA tournament bid
.344 B1G win percentage

Fleck is in year 2.
Pitino is in year 6.

If Fleck only has two postseason appearances after 5 seasons he’ll be on the hot seat too. And rightfully so.

Well yeah. If you're going to use numbers and logic to make a point, you always seem correct.
 



The big picture is one of Pitino’s main problems.

5 years
1 NCAA tournament bid
.344 B1G win percentage

Fleck is in year 2.
Pitino is in year 6.

If Fleck only has two postseason appearances after 5 seasons he’ll be on the hot seat too. And rightfully so.

You are right about Fleck. I wasn't trying to compare the two situations other than to point out how knee jerk we are as a fan base. Neither guy has been a home run hire yet but neither should be on the hot seat either, in my opinion.

Pitino has had two years which exceeded expectations for me (years 1 and 4), one season which fell off the rails after suspension/injuries (year 5), one year which was a complete rebuild (year 3) and one year which was a dramatic disappointment for me (year 2). Obviously year 3 and year 5 have really impacted his overall record. I'm just not sure how much year 5 was on him. As I said in a different thread, I really believe without Lynch's suspension and all the other injuries, we would be looking at trying to get into the tournament for the third year in a row this year (unheard of for this program.)
 

I really want to see Suggs also, Pitino and Fleck need to work out the two sport thing and we could maybe get him.

I wonder if he is a Big Ten caliber QB. Can't say I've seen him enough to know. Also, very few guys can play multiple sports through college. Some guys who went on to prosperous pro careers (Julius Peppers, Donovan McNabb, Brad Johnson) didn't play football and basketball the entire way through. Kenny Lofton played basketball and baseball but those seem easier to play than football and basketball
 

This is crazy talk.

This is Pitino's 6th season and his record (overall, conference, everything) is objectively terrible.

He's a likeable guy and has recruited decently. But we need to go .500 minimum in B1G play this season or he should be gone.

OK. What "hot name" you wanna bring in this time? Go with a mid major guy? Maybe an old washup like Tubby that had(at one time) some success?

What's the answer? Because they have tried it all for both programs and nothing has worked yet. I mean, I agree with you that Pitino hasn't done a great job and his record isn't very good.
I just don't know how this will fix itself though, no matter what coach you bring in. The talent in this state is here, and yet, we barely scratch the surface of it, instead bleeding all our best to other
parts of the country no matter who the coach is.

I seriously think this issue runs much deeper than what coach you have running your program. It's a University problem and always has been.
 

I'm not basing this on just last night which was ugly, but I think he does have to make the tourney this year to keep his job. Pitino is different than Fleck in terms of:
1. He was not hired by Coyle
2. He did not have as much experience as Fleck when he was hired (it was a bit of a desperation hire)

This would be the best time to make the change as the young three are all good players, but 2019 recruiting will be paused soon. That being said, I really hope he can figure out how to get this team to improve.
 
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OK. What "hot name" you wanna bring in this time? Go with a mid major guy? Maybe an old washup like Tubby that had(at one time) some success?

What's the answer? Because they have tried it all for both programs and nothing has worked yet. I mean, I agree with you that Pitino hasn't done a great job and his record isn't very good.
I just don't know how this will fix itself though, no matter what coach you bring in. The talent in this state is here, and yet, we barely scratch the surface of it, instead bleeding all our best to other
parts of the country no matter who the coach is.

I seriously think this issue runs much deeper than what coach you have running your program. It's a University problem and always has been.

Eric Musselman would be an obvious name. Whether or not he’d take it no one knows as he may well get other offers, but he would definitely consider it. We could double his salary without even giving him a raise over what Pitino is getting so he’d have to at least hear us out.

I’d sure take a washup like Tubby if it meant we made the NCAA tournament 50% of the time. It’d be an upgrade from the performance we’ve been getting. Not like Tubby didn’t deal with some good players getting hurt in his time here too.
 

OK. What "hot name" you wanna bring in this time? Go with a mid major guy? Maybe an old washup like Tubby that had(at one time) some success?

What's the answer? Because they have tried it all for both programs and nothing has worked yet. I mean, I agree with you that Pitino hasn't done a great job and his record isn't very good.
I just don't know how this will fix itself though, no matter what coach you bring in. The talent in this state is here, and yet, we barely scratch the surface of it, instead bleeding all our best to other
parts of the country no matter who the coach is.

I seriously think this issue runs much deeper than what coach you have running your program. It's a University problem and always has been.

The "aw shucks we can't do any better" logic might fly on the football side, but not basketball. You don't have to keep all of the talent home, just some of it, and you'll have at a team that's at least in the middle of the B1G most years. Pitino has done the first part of that to some extent. But we're still sitting here in year 6 with only one finish in the top 7, with a mismatched group of talent hoping it will work itself out. The idea that no one can do better than 1 NCAA bid in 6 years is silly. Either he figures out how to get this group there or he will be replaced.
 

I seriously think this issue runs much deeper than what coach you have running your program. It's a University problem and always has been.

Sounds like you're just fatalistic.

"We have to change the university!"

Good luck on that one. Changing the coach (provided the buyout isn't huge) is easy. Changing the university (whatever that means?) is next to impossible.

Michigan hadn't been to the NCAA tournament in nine years before Beilein arrived. That haven't missed many since.

Wisconsin wasn't really an established basketball power when Ryan arrived. He made them one.

Iowa State had been to one NCAA tournament in 10 years before Fred Hoiberg arrived. He took them to four straight and his successor took them to two more.

Sometimes getting the right coach in the right place makes all the difference in the world. If you care about the sport and how the university competes in it, you don't stop trying. The U of M has shown that it's not afraid to spend money. They paid Tubby a lot; they're paying Fleck more than they paid the prior coaches; they built an expensive state-of-the-art facility.
 

Sorry Mrs. Pitino - I'll be more respectful going forward

I have been on Gopherhole plenty longer than that, and plenty longer than you. It is clear that more than anything, many of you are hoping for another coaching change. This would be disastrous for the program. Will it be more harmful than keeping Pitino? Hard to say right now.

A lot of horrible Patrick Reusse type fans associate with Gopher basketball.Ya'll sure have alot emotionally invested in the gophers sucking this year. Perhaps you could get a jump on complaining about the next coach and start recommending the coach AFTER Muss. You know... get a head start. Not that far away and think how negative that would be LOL.
 
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Why doesn't it hold water?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ege-basketball-scandal-players-coaches-agents

Looks at the school names on that list. Blue bloods galore. Successful programs.

We had a good program here at the U. Clem Haskins was one of the better coaches in the Big Ten and was successful. They University threw him under the bus for something that goes on at every University with a sports program and completely ruined the athletics department here by doing so. The basketball program has been in a tailspin and has had a hard time gaining any momentum ever since.

And obviously if he hasn't improved the program in a couple years or this year ends up being a complete disaster, then fine. That said, I don't think it will be and I don't think canning him after this season will be any kind of answer for the basketball program.
It does not happen at every successful program and plenty of schools have way more difficulty getting athletes through admissions. We have several players who would never be admitted into better schools that have better programs. Thinking otherwise is thinking to justify our failures. Many schools are very tough on athletes and what they take for classes and win games. Some programs have players that get masters degrees and win at a high level. And yes, some cheat . But there are big winners who never cheat and who simply recruit super high character that actually want to go to school.
 

I just don't know if I can stand to start over again, I am sick of starting over!!!!��

Bet you would love the change if you knew you were getting a coaching superstar. Admit that is easier said than done but i have seen first hand how that has happened elsewhere and that process has never followed here until Coyle.
 

Bet you would love the change if you knew you were getting a coaching superstar. Admit that is easier said than done but i have seen first hand how that has happened elsewhere and that process has never followed here until Coyle.

That is true but even with a coaching superstar you can expect one down recruiting year during the transition.
 

It does not happen at every successful program and plenty of schools have way more difficulty getting athletes through admissions. We have several players who would never be admitted into better schools that have better programs. Thinking otherwise is thinking to justify our failures. Many schools are very tough on athletes and what they take for classes and win games. Some programs have players that get masters degrees and win at a high level. And yes, some cheat . But there are big winners who never cheat and who simply recruit super high character that actually want to go to school.

Sure. Keep preaching about the virtues of others.

Think Tar Heels. Think Duke. Yup, Wiill Avery. Need more? Marcus Carr.

The playing field is not level.

Who are these big winners that never cheat?
 

Sure. Keep preaching about the virtues of others.

Think Tar Heels. Think Duke. Yup, Wiill Avery. Need more? Marcus Carr.

The playing field is not level.

Who are these big winners that never cheat?

Where did Jay Wright cheat or Bo Ryan or Gard or Tony Bennett or Belein or Few Or Donovan. I said some cheat but the above faced a playing field not level and overcome it. The common thread is hiring a great coach. Butler did not cheat, Xavier did not cheat.
 

Where did Jay Wright cheat or Bo Ryan or Gard or Tony Bennett or Belein or Few Or Donovan. I said some cheat but the above faced a playing field not level and overcome it. The common thread is hiring a great coach. Butler did not cheat, Xavier did not cheat.

Bo Ryan cheated on his wife. And was a total D-bag. That being said, would love to have 1/2 the success here he had at WI.
 

His job is safe for now. This is a discussion for after the season not after a single loss.

Perhaps you guys could consider becoming a Wisconsin or Iowa fan on behalf of us Gopher fans. Be nice if you could sow discord, demoralize players, and help their recruits to second guess their decision across the border instead of here.

First time, looong timer, alum.

I agree with you, coaching changes don’t often result in immediate improvement here like some places. Let him grow this team, even if it takes several more years.
 

His job is safe for now. This is a discussion for after the season not after a single loss.

Perhaps you guys could consider becoming a Wisconsin or Iowa fan on behalf of us Gopher fans. Be nice if you could sow discord, demoralize players, and help their recruits to second guess their decision across the border instead of here.

First time, looong timer, alum.

I agree with you, coaching changes don’t often result in immediate improvement here like some places. Let him grow this team, even if it takes several more years.

It's cool that you joined to defend your son, Rick.
 

It's cool that you joined to defend your son, Rick.

Here is a link to posts in 1999 on this very site on wayback internet archive.

https://web.archive.org/web/19990208220413/http://www.gopherhole.com:80/TunnelTalk/

As you can see it was just us Pitino's (CPT Midnight), Greg Smith, Bleedgold, and Nate Tubbs Rules posting back then.

Seems like the mid 2000's when all of you jackasses arrived. There must be some other program that you guys can demoralize beside the Gophers. St Cloud State Hockey fans seem pretty happy right now... Thoughts?
 




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