Point Guard

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bc2211 said:
I fear that IW is not receiving a clear message. His tendency to take ill advised/selfish shots early in the shot clock is exactly the same tendency I see out of Coffee. Both like to play the hero and drive into traffic and chuck up a shot.

If Pitino isn’t equally as critical of Coffee making those plays as he is of IW (which seems likely, given that IW was pulled last night), then perhaps this is a coaching issue.




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Last year Coffey was much more patient (when healthy). I think he has it in his mind that he is going to force some bigger numbers and that is hurting his overall play. He will straighten this out. He better or he is going to get hurt on one of those wild flying drives to the hoop. He is just not under control enough to finish a lot of those plays.

The bigger issue last night with IW was on defense. Both he and Stull made it too easy for their guy to just stand there and have a nice clean look at a three. I think Stull got abused about three straight times before Pitino pulled him. I'd rather see these guys get beat off the dribble when closely guarding their man than just let them get comfortable out there.
 


bga1 said:
Last year Coffey was much more patient (when healthy). I think he has it in his mind that he is going to force some bigger numbers and that is hurting his overall play. He will straighten this out. He better or he is going to get hurt on one of those wild flying drives to the hoop. He is just not under control enough to finish a lot of those plays.

The bigger issue last night with IW was on defense. Both he and Stull made it too easy for their guy to just stand there and have a nice clean look at a three. I think Stull got abused about three straight times before Pitino pulled him. I'd rather see these guys get beat off the dribble when closely guarding their man than just let them get comfortable out there.
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Yup and then Stull topped it off with that lazy turnover. When Coffey doesn't end up on the deck on one of his drives it is a surprise.
 

Man oh man! Crandall only had 10 minutes with the Zags last night...what could have been...
 




I'll take Coffey's "wild flying drives to the hoop," as long as he ends up at the free throw line more often than not. His 30 FTA is second only to Murphy's 31. (Of course, it would be great if he hit more than 70%.)

Washington is on the bench because he refuses to play within the system. When it sinks in -- again -- that his undisciplined style isn't going to fly in the B1G, he'll be ready to play. Until then, Pitino has little choice but to use him in small doses, hence the 7 minutes last night.

With Washington's affliction, more playing time is going to exacerbate the problem, rather than remedy it. He has to make the first move by showing he's willing to do what's best for the team.

To be clear, I'm not saying I want Coffey as my PG. I'm saying that right now, I want IW even less. Until IW figures it out, he'll have a minimal role. And I certainly hope he figures it out quickly, because we'd be a much better team if he could be relied on.

JTG
 
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Gopherbbdude said:
Coffey will be fine....he had a bad game. Coffey should be and will be the PG
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Can’t have a one armed PG. Daddy should have thought him to dribble with his off hand.
Pitino has made some dumb roster management moves, and this is the latest example.
Imagine this team with M Wright instead #jellypout.
 

beavergopher said:
Can’t have a one armed PG. Daddy should have thought him to dribble with his off hand.
Pitino has made some dumb roster management moves, and this is the latest example.
Imagine this team with M Wright instead #jellypout.
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Could Daddy dribble with either hand?
 



Otis said:
It's almost like your saying, "Last year with extended playing time he played with more poise."

Pitino, are you reading this? Kid can't get better sitting next to you.
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Wasn't quite thinking of it that way but definitely a good point
 

Someone referenced McKinley Wright on this thread and how he would have been an important get at point guard. Have to agree. I attended last night's USD-Colorado game and he was terrific. 14 points, 7 boards and 6 assists. Well, the 5 turnovers were not great but he would certainly have been an upgrade over what the Gophers have presently. He took a bad fall in the last few seconds last night. He was hustling after a ball headed out of bounds and crashed into and over a row of chairs. He was shaken but was able to walk off the court.
 

I feel like I might be in the minority here, but I'm not quite ready to hit the panic button for the PG position. Our guys are healthy, which is the most important thing right now. For the most part, it seems like both Coffey and IW are just trying too hard to put up early numbers, and their playing outside of themselves. I'm confident that once we get through this first stretch of 6-8 games, they'll settle into their style of play, and into the offense. Of course, this optimism for the Gophers is 50/50 for actually panning out...
 

beavergopher said:
Can’t have a one armed PG. Daddy should have thought him to dribble with his off hand.
Pitino has made some dumb roster management moves, and this is the latest example.
Imagine this team with M Wright instead #jellypout.
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Oh "#jellypout!" You are so clever. And "Daddy" demeaning one of the toughest and most admirable Gophers ever. Another classless move.
 



As much as Pitino, or Amir or Amir's dad may want him to play PG, its not a good fit for him because he isnt a good dribbler of the ball and we lose his ability to run the floor from the wing position. Amir playing PG is huritng us twice as bad.

There were 2 good games on ESPN last night and each team had 1 or 2 players on the floor with some ability to shake, cross over, create a play for either a teammate or himself to get to the basket. The gophers have basically no one who has that type of movement with the ball, closest is Jelly. Amir and Dupree can both jab step and go hard left and everyone else is either a straight shooter or back to the basket guy. After seeing what we have now, it gives me a much greater appreciation for what Nate Mason did for us at PG. This team is basically built to run the flex offense.

I think we are close to the point where we have to start Jelly at PG and take the good with the bad and hope he learns while being thrown into the fire.
 

Several good points made in this thread.

1) Coffey is struggling with his off hand and is challenged defensively with faster PG competition. I don’t know how this will turn around anytime soon.
2) Jelly is a often a liability on the court with ill advised shots, poor 3 point shooting and an inability to play within Pitino’s system.
3) We have no other PG options at this time.

So the question remains, based upon what we have in our arsenal today who is the better play?

I don’t know if there is an easy answer. We are just going to have to live with these liabilities. My gut tells me Amir is more comfortable and effective as a wing. And Jelly has much better ball handling skills when we face B1G opponents, which will be needed. If he could just play within his ability and play smarter when he has the ball in his hands, like we hoped he would this year, problem solved.

Unfortunately that hasn’t been the case and Pitino is searching for the best solution. Hopefully tonight we’ll see improvement.
 


Blitzkrieg said:
Several good points made in this thread.

1) Coffey is struggling with his off hand and is challenged defensively with faster PG competition. I don’t know how this will turn around anytime soon.
2) Jelly is a often a liability on the court with ill advised shots, poor 3 point shooting and an inability to play within Pitino’s system.
3) We have no other PG options at this time.

So the question remains, based upon what we have in our arsenal today who is the better play?

I don’t know if there is an easy answer. We are just going to have to live with these liabilities. My gut tells me Amir is more comfortable and effective as a wing. And Jelly has much better ball handling skills when we face B1G opponents, which will be needed. If he could just play within his ability and play smarter when he has the ball in his hands, like we hoped he would this year, problem solved.

Unfortunately that hasn’t been the case and Pitino is searching for the best solution. Hopefully tonight we’ll see improvement.
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Yeah, I think every game is a new episode on the point guard saga. At the very least it keeps a person interested. Much more fun chatting about guard play than ....well you know. Really cool with the 3 games in 4 nights and the best game yet to come tonight.
 

bleedgold said:
As much as Pitino, or Amir or Amir's dad may want him to play PG, its not a good fit for him because he isnt a good dribbler of the ball and we lose his ability to run the floor from the wing position. Amir playing PG is huritng us twice as bad.

There were 2 good games on ESPN last night and each team had 1 or 2 players on the floor with some ability to shake, cross over, create a play for either a teammate or himself to get to the basket. The gophers have basically no one who has that type of movement with the ball, closest is Jelly. Amir and Dupree can both jab step and go hard left and everyone else is either a straight shooter or back to the basket guy. After seeing what we have now, it gives me a much greater appreciation for what Nate Mason did for us at PG. This team is basically built to run the flex offense.

I think we are close to the point where we have to start Jelly at PG and take the good with the bad and hope he learns while being thrown into the fire.
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Nobody is going to like this, but IMO, Dupree is a better back up PG option than Coffey. Dupree has a wild streak but to me he has proven that he will do what the coach has asked from him and has a good attitude. I think he could adjust his game to play more at the point. Whatever the case, the team's trajectory is directly related to how much IW can submit his game to the team concept. He has all the tools and he would be a decent shooter if taking shots in the flow of the offense. This can be a tournament team (bubble) with reasonable PG play and a high end team with excellent PG play.

Nagging random question on IW..... is he able to dunk? I have never seen it.
 

bga1 said:
Nobody is going to like this, but IMO, Dupree is a better back up PG option than Coffey.

Nagging random question on IW..... is he able to dunk? I have never seen it.
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I don't know why that would be controversial after we've seen the evidence this season. I said something similar a couple of days ago. I've never liked Dupree as a point, but, given the alternatives, he's probably the best option as the second point.

Of course, we can again place some of the blame on Pitino; this time for his recruiting last spring. He doesn't appear capable of making a simple decision like "here is what I need so that is what I'm going to recruit regardless of other factors." Instead of recruiting Peyton Willis, a sit-out shooting guard from Vanderbilt, he should have recruited hard someone like his grad transfer PG teammate, Larry Austin Jr., who is doing quite well in a starting role at Central Michigan. He is also from Illinois so going to a Big Ten school probably would have been appealing to him.

P.S. As far as Washington dunking, I suspect he can but that attempt might have a pretty good probability of being stuffed in a Big Ten game.
 

bga1 said:
Nobody is going to like this, but IMO, Dupree is a better back up PG option than Coffey. Dupree has a wild streak but to me he has proven that he will do what the coach has asked from him and has a good attitude. I think he could adjust his game to play more at the point. Whatever the case, the team's trajectory is directly related to how much IW can submit his game to the team concept. He has all the tools and he would be a decent shooter if taking shots in the flow of the offense. This can be a tournament team (bubble) with reasonable PG play and a high end team with excellent PG play.

Nagging random question on IW..... is he able to dunk? I have never seen it.
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Two years ago when Dupree was Mason's backup, I thought he did an ok job. He wasn't as dynamic at Mason but there weren't very many times I can remember where he turned the ball over or made poor decisions.
 

Some guy said:
More than half of scholarship players in the country do not start.
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Yep, simple math me'boy. But for some kids that doesn't work for their ego.

cjbfbp said:
I've never liked Dupree as a point, but, given the alternatives, he's probably the best option as...
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Yep. I think his on the ball defense is pretty good. He's one of those guys that needs to be on the floor as much as possible despite any deficiencies.
 
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Not sure that McBrayer can handle the ball any better with his right hand than Coffey can. When either of them pound the ball on the floor, it's going left. Besides the FT shooting, I'd love to see our guards pull up and take (and hit) mid range jumpers rather than force the ball all the time, throwing up garbage shots driving all the way to the basket. We really need to get the PG position figured out. I think most of us remember what happened when Hoffarber was forced to play the point. Ball handling wasn't his strength and it didn't end well for him or the team.
 

big10guy said:
Not sure that McBrayer can handle the ball any better with his right hand than Coffey can
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McBrayer can handle much better IMO. Coffey can hardly face-up and dribble with a man in front of him, he's got his back turned where he can't even see the floor. It's not good.
 

bc2211 said:
I fear that IW is not receiving a clear message. His tendency to take ill advised/selfish shots early in the shot clock is exactly the same tendency I see out of Coffee. Both like to play the hero and drive into traffic and chuck up a shot.
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I couldn't believe how many times Coffey did that last night. He's so out of control on his layup attempts. I hate the NCAA so much for taking away a serviceable PG.
 

BarnBurner said:
I fully expect to hear IW will not be in MN next season.
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I certainly hope the light clicks on for Washington. I wish his jump shooting would have improved but it's still early. Most teams look for their PG to be a steadying influence in the game, but he's very prone to be forced into turnovers. Being a steady PG and running the show isn't about being flashy for the highlight reels. (See Tyus Jones. He just got the ball where it need to go and won a national championship). If IW hasn't played himself into the lineup by the end of the year, I'd be surprised if he returns.
 


bga1 said:
Nobody is going to like this, but IMO, Dupree is a better back up PG option than Coffey. Dupree has a wild streak but to me he has proven that he will do what the coach has asked from him and has a good attitude. I think he could adjust his game to play more at the point. Whatever the case, the team's trajectory is directly related to how much IW can submit his game to the team concept. He has all the tools and he would be a decent shooter if taking shots in the flow of the offense. This can be a tournament team (bubble) with reasonable PG play and a high end team with excellent PG play.

Nagging random question on IW..... is he able to dunk? I have never seen it.
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Completely agree that Dupree is a better option at PG. Coffey is a below average PG but he's around honorable mention as a SF. It's such a waste playing him at PG. 20 minutes each at PG for Dupree and Washington seems much better than starting Coffey there.
 

bga1 said:
Nobody is going to like this, but IMO, Dupree is a better back up PG option than Coffey. Dupree has a wild streak but to me he has proven that he will do what the coach has asked from him and has a good attitude. I think he could adjust his game to play more at the point. Whatever the case, the team's trajectory is directly related to how much IW can submit his game to the team concept. He has all the tools and he would be a decent shooter if taking shots in the flow of the offense. This can be a tournament team (bubble) with reasonable PG play and a high end team with excellent PG play.

Nagging random question on IW..... is he able to dunk? I have never seen it.
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I agree with your assessment of pree vs Amir at pg.
 

IW has not pouted at all so far clapping on the bench for his teammates. You need to give him more than 3 minutes a game. We need him to figure this out sooner than later. He had 11 assists in one game getting easy buckets for everyone. Old man Coffey forcing the PG situation is not good for this team.

If this team is going to make any noise it’s with IW at the point and Coffey finishing on the break on out lit passes.
 

IW played great in the second half tonight. More of that, please.
 

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