Fire the coach?

What should be done with PJ Fleck

  • Total voters
    182
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dpodoll68 said:
Is this a serious post? Actual Gopher fans would be ecstatic with winning the West 1 out of every 7 years. At some point that would get old and expectations would increase, but for now, if Fleck wins the West some time in the next 5 years, he'll be like a God around here.
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Not sure how this morphed into the main idea. I was originally taking you to task for going out of your way to defend Spielman's/Vikings results that are barely above mediocre over a dozen years. Yes, my expectations and hopes are for better results than 1 Big Ten West title every 7 years with no Big Ten Championships over a dozen years (similar to the Vikings results).
 

Panthadad2 said:
Not sure how this morphed into the main idea. I was originally taking you to task for going out of your way to defend Spielman's/Vikings results that are barely above mediocre over a dozen years. Yes, my expectations and hopes are for better results than 1 Big Ten West title every 7 years with no Big Ten Championships over a dozen years (similar to the Vikings results).
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Well sure, if you build a straw man (that I was "going out of my way to defend Spielman's results"), I can see why you'd want to "take me to task." Rather, what I was actually doing (and expressly stated as such) was obliterating the idiotic notion that the Vikings' results during Spielman's tenure and the Gophers' results during Fleck's tenure are in any way remotely comparable. The Vikings are essentially one step above the average NFC team during Spielman's tenure, while the Gophers have a long way to go under Fleck before they even leave the bottom quartile of the Big Ten.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Not sure how this morphed into the main idea. I was originally taking you to task for going out of your way to defend Spielman's/Vikings results that are barely above mediocre over a dozen years. Yes, my expectations and hopes are for better results than 1 Big Ten West title every 7 years with no Big Ten Championships over a dozen years (similar to the Vikings results).
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dpo was responding/correcting a ftf post, which gives context to dpo's response.
 

This might just be the dumbest thread ever posted on gopherhole.
 

I'd kind of like to keep this thread trending towards the top.

What's everyone's favorite Thanksgiving food?

Mine, probably tacos.
 


Fire 31.97%
carh1981, Halsey Hall, iowa

I'm not familiar with carh1981 or iowa. Very familiar with Halsey Hall. These are the 3 who want him to be fired.
 



#2Gopher said:
Fire 31.97%
carh1981, Halsey Hall, iowa

I'm not familiar with carh1981 or iowa. Very familiar with Halsey Hall. These are the 3 who want him to be fired.
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Good for them. Why does that bother you?


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Bob_Loblaw said:
I'd kind of like to keep this thread trending towards the top.

What's everyone's favorite Thanksgiving food?

Mine, probably tacos.
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Leftovers in a sandwich...smothered with mayo.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'd kind of like to keep this thread trending towards the top.

What's everyone's favorite Thanksgiving food?

Mine, probably tacos.
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Beer


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#2Gopher said:
Fire 31.97%
carh1981, Halsey Hall, iowa

I'm not familiar with carh1981 or iowa. Very familiar with Halsey Hall. These are the 3 who want him to be fired.
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They’re either the smartest 3 on the board or the dumbest 3 on the board.
 

Spoofin said:
Good for them. Why does that bother you?


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Where did it say it bothers me? I just pointed it out. Why didn't you vote to fire him then if you thought it was good?
 



dpodoll68 said:
Jokes are funny.

Spielman's been here 12 years. During that time, the Vikings are 104-95-2 (.522), with 5 playoff appearances, 4 division titles, and 2 NFC Championship game appearances. This is not including how the rest of this year goes, which should be another playoff appearance at least if the Vikings don't sh1t the bed. The Vikings also don't get the benefit of 2-3 games against lower division foes every year. Also, statistically (assuming equal distribution among all teams), the Vikings should have 3 division titles, 1-2 NFC Championship game appearances, and 0 Super Bowl appearances at this point - all numbers they've met or exceeded during Spielman's term.

Fleck's been here just under 2 years. During that time, the Gophers are 10-13 (.435) with no bowl games and an unlikely shot at garnering a bottom-tier bowl game with a significant upset next Saturday. Oh, and in the subset of games against their conference peers, they're 4-13 (.235). Even if he manages to somehow upset wisconsin, all he has to do is average 5.5 Big Ten wins each of the next two years just to match the performance of the man he was hired to replace.

But yes, the "results aren't much better." Your sycophant game needs some work.
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Your changing the argument by excluding the lowest level competition in the NCAA.
That would be like taking out the 3-4 easiest opponents the Vikings play each year (Call it a Cleveland or Detroit rule) and do the same for the Vikings.

If you want to argue that non-conference games don't count in the NCAA, that's another argument you can make, but from a CFP standpoint and Bowl Game stand point, wins against non-conference appear to matter as do non-conference (and weak opponents) in the NFL.
 

Panthadad2 said:
There are 32 teams in the NFL, 16 teams in the NFC and 4 teams in the NFC North. Given draft rules that reinforce parity, probabilities alone would indicate in the past 12 years the Vikings should have made 4-5 playoff appearances, won 3 NFC Norths, made 1-2 NFC Championships, and had a 2/3 probability of playing in a Super Bowl. Spielman is performing barely above probability on the first three and below on the last/biggest (Super Bowl appearance). I wouldn't use the Spielman and the Vikings as a benchmark until and if the team goes to the Super Bowl soon.

BTW, I recommend NOT applying the same probabilities to the Gophers over the last 50 years unless you want to get depressed.
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But go back 60 years, and the Gophers obliterate the Vikings in the area where it matters.
 

#2Gopher said:
Where did it say it bothers me? I just pointed it out. <b>Why didn't you vote to fire him then if you thought it was good?</b>
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The poll asked if I thought he should be fired. I don’t so I voted no. Seems pretty straight forward.


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Spoofin said:
The poll asked if I thought he should be fired. I don’t so I voted no. Seems pretty straight forward.


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You make it sound so simple.
 

Spoofin said:
Good for them. Why does that bother you?


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Spoofin....read what you wrote...."you asked why does that bother you?" I didn't say anything that it reflects that it bothers me. I just pointed something out. Don't make up something that I did not say.
 

#2Gopher said:
Spoofin....read what you wrote...."you asked why does that bother you?" I didn't say anything that it reflects that it bothers me. I just pointed something out. Don't make up something that I did not say.
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To be fair, if we all quit using our own interpretations of what other people say, we wouldn't get to argue as much.
 


#2Gopher said:
Spoofin....read what you wrote...."you asked why does that bother you?" I didn't say anything that it reflects that it bothers me. I just pointed something out. Don't make up something that I did not say.
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Why does me thinking it bothered you bother you so much?


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Face The Facts said:
Your changing the argument by excluding the lowest level competition in the NCAA.
That would be like taking out the 3-4 easiest opponents the Vikings play each year (Call it a Cleveland or Detroit rule) and do the same for the Vikings.

If you want to argue that non-conference games don't count in the NCAA, that's another argument you can make, but from a CFP standpoint and Bowl Game stand point, wins against non-conference appear to matter as do non-conference (and weak opponents) in the NFL.
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The difference with that idea is the bottom NFL teams are nowhere near as bad as some of the non-con teams the gophers play (relatively speaking). Detroit or Chicago are nowhere as much a guaranteed win as a Miami of Ohio.

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Obviously Jim Souhan has voted three times so far.
 


Panthadad2 said:
There are 32 teams in the NFL, 16 teams in the NFC and 4 teams in the NFC North. Given draft rules that reinforce parity, probabilities alone would indicate in the past 12 years the Vikings should have made 4-5 playoff appearances, won 3 NFC Norths, made 1-2 NFC Championships, and had a 2/3 probability of playing in a Super Bowl. Spielman is performing barely above probability on the first three and below on the last/biggest (Super Bowl appearance). I wouldn't use the Spielman and the Vikings as a benchmark until and if the team goes to the Super Bowl soon.

BTW, I recommend NOT applying the same probabilities to the Gophers over the last 50 years unless you want to get depressed.
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That statement doesn't hold much water though since it's strictly based on probabilities that don't take competitor skill into account. The fact that the Packers have had an all-time great at Quarterback since 2008(?) needs to be considered. When you take that into consideration the Vikings numbers don't look bad at all. I'd obviously would have loved a Super Bowl win but, oh well.
 



Airguard6 said:
That statement doesn't hold much water though since it's strictly based on probabilities that don't take competitor skill into account. The fact that the Packers have had an all-time great at Quarterback since 2008(?) needs to be considered. When you take that into consideration the Vikings numbers don't look bad at all. I'd obviously would have loved a Super Bowl win but, oh well.
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This could be a new weird thread all on its own. If you're going use Rogers' existence has an excuse for the Vikings not excelling, then you need to also consider that the hapless Detroit Lions reside in the same division which boosts the Vikings chances of winning. As a comparison for the Gophers, Rogers' superior talent could be compared to Ohio State/Michigan/Penn State/WI while the Gophers have been the Detroit Lions.
 

Panthadad2 said:
This could be a new weird thread all on its own. If you're going use Rogers' existence has an excuse for the Vikings not excelling, then you need to also consider that the hapless Detroit Lions reside in the same division which boosts the Vikings chances of winning. As a comparison for the Gophers, Rogers' superior talent could be compared to Ohio State/Michigan/Penn State/WI while the Gophers have been the Detroit Lions.
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Agreed.
 

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