Fleck on Gopher Football Weekly - KFAN

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Dano564

Dano564

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Says the team is young and inexperienced and they've had injuries.
These aren't excuses. They are reasons.

Won't be wholesale changes on D, but some changes.
 

We're young and have had three freshmen of the week award winners, so there is young talent.
 

He also said in rough times you need to keep rowing.

Sometimes I wonder if many of the Gopherholers are really rowing or just yelling at others to row.
 

I caught bits of Fleck interviews with Dave Lee on CCO, and with Paul Allen on KFAN. both were very similar. Talked about the decision to fire Smith. But what caught my ear was this - Fleck said in both interviews that (paraphrasing) "this is where I expected us to be." he added he was not talking about wins and losses, but the general direction of the program - going with very young players, and potentially taking a step backwards. Fleck also said (again, paraphrasing) that "this is how I build a program."

So, if this is all part of the plan, then the question becomes, when can fans reasonably expect to see improvement? And when does that improvement translate into winning more games?

No matter how much Fleck believes in his system, he has to give fans a reason for hope, and a reason to buy tickets - or the Gophers could be playing in front of 20,000 fans by the end of next year.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I caught bits of Fleck interviews with Dave Lee on CCO, and with Paul Allen on KFAN. both were very similar. Talked about the decision to fire Smith. But what caught my ear was this - Fleck said in both interviews that (paraphrasing) "this is where I expected us to be." he added he was not talking about wins and losses, but the general direction of the program - going with very young players, and potentially taking a step backwards. Fleck also said (again, paraphrasing) that "this is how I build a program."

So, if this is all part of the plan, then the question becomes, when can fans reasonably expect to see improvement? And when does that improvement translate into winning more games?

No matter how much Fleck believes in his system, he has to give fans a reason for hope, and a reason to buy tickets - or the Gophers could be playing in front of 20,000 fans by the end of next year.
Click to expand...

On his weekly program he really rolled back the expectations and basically said this program was a rebuild from where things were. Seems as if he and Coyle were in agreement on that from the start and PJ has said he's been consistent the whole time on this we would get younger, then younger yet, before we started getting better. It will be built around the 2018 and 2019 classes.

Right now for the record, we are at the first "younger". Next year will be the second "younger".

So by the time the 2019 class are redshirt juniors, that would be... 2019, 2020, 2021,... 2022.

He also said if they were going to go the JUCO route, they would have needed about 20 (or 22) JUCO players to plug the holes in the meantime and he wasn't going to do that.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
I caught bits of Fleck interviews with Dave Lee on CCO, and with Paul Allen on KFAN. both were very similar. Talked about the decision to fire Smith. But what caught my ear was this - Fleck said in both interviews that (paraphrasing) "this is where I expected us to be." he added he was not talking about wins and losses, but the general direction of the program - going with very young players, and potentially taking a step backwards. Fleck also said (again, paraphrasing) that "this is how I build a program."

So, if this is all part of the plan, then the question becomes, when can fans reasonably expect to see improvement? And when does that improvement translate into winning more games?

No matter how much Fleck believes in his system, he has to give fans a reason for hope, and a reason to buy tickets - or the Gophers could be playing in front of 20,000 fans by the end of next year.
Click to expand...

They're already playing in front of 20,000 fans. He also said he could have gone after more JC's but that is not his belief. He may take 2-4 in a year, but not more. I think everyone knows that year 3 has to be better with continued improvement on offense and a competitive on defense.

Having reason for hope and reason to buy tickets are two different things. I have belief in Fleck, but do not have reason to buy more than 1-2 games a year. Tickets are not priced appropriately even for a 9-3 team.
 


The "I told you it would get worse before it gets better" message is tiresome. You foresee problems and your solution to fixing those problems is to wait long enough and hope they go away?
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
The "I told you it would get worse before it gets better" message is tiresome. You foresee problems and your solution to fixing those problems is to wait long enough and hope they go away?
Click to expand...

Well, he continually points to fixing things with recruiting.
(and probably some coaching).

It is a tiresome message as is the "young" piece, but if the young players produce, then he might be right.
 



Posted on another thread recently that in the last month or so he's basically added two years...moving his breakthrough year from 2020 to 2022, so Year Six...or is it Five*?
 

PMWinSTP said:
Posted on another thread recently that in the last month or so he's basically added two years...moving his breakthrough year from 2020 to 2022, so Year Six...or is it Five*?
Click to expand...

He and Kill I believe, also talked 7-8 years at times.
 

He said in presser that he will not be able to red-shirt Teague. He will play with a red-shirt year in his pocket if needed.
 




MaxyJR1 said:
He and Kill I believe, also talked 7-8 years at times.
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It depends on what were are talking about for how long it takes to fix things. If you are saying 7-8 years until someone reaches their ceiling, but by year 3 you are getting into 8 or 9 win seasons on the way up, that is very different than still struggling to make a bowl game in year 3.
 

Most of the problems have been on the Defense whose starters are mostly upperclassmen.

Someone educate me please
 

Johnny Olson said:
Most of the problems have been on the Defense whose starters are mostly upperclassman.

Someone educate me please
Click to expand...

Many of which do not fit this system and I've said this a number of times, those players are or should be playing LB.
 

Johnny Olson said:
Most of the problems have been on the Defense whose starters are mostly upperclassmen.

Someone educate me please
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Look at the DT's and DL that were on roster in 2017 when he came on board.
It's pretty thin.
Now if one or a couple of those guys gets hurt or if they aren't very good, your toast.

You're best D lineman is your best linebacker playing DL.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Posted on another thread recently that in the last month or so he's basically added two years...moving his breakthrough year from 2020 to 2022, so Year Six...or is it Five*?
Click to expand...

Depends what you define as a breakthrough. When Fleck lays out his plan for when the team arrives he is talking in terms of championships not just 8-9 win seasons. His goal is to build the program into something it hasn't been in a long long long long time which is a contender in the Big Ten.

He isn't a fool, he knows the win total is going to need to go up in the next few seasons in order for him to keep his job. He has never said the team won't be able to compete and win games but it is going to take time to get to where he wants the program to be where it can be a consistent contender year in and year out. That is the breakthrough he talks about.

Fleck doesn't want to maintain the Mason/Kill/Claeys levels of success he wants to take the team to a level that none of them could. Time will tell if he succeeds but I think there is a misconception of what he means when he talks about building the program.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Depends what you define as a breakthrough. When Fleck lays out his plan for when the team arrives he is talking in terms of championships not just 8-9 win seasons. His goal is to build the program into something it hasn't been in a long long long long time which is a contender in the Big Ten.

He isn't a fool, he knows the win total is going to need to go up in the next few seasons in order for him to keep his job. He has never said the team won't be able to compete and win games but it is going to take time to get to where he wants the program to be where it can be a consistent contender year in and year out. That is the breakthrough he talks about.

Fleck doesn't want to maintain the Mason/Kill/Claeys levels of success he wants to take the team to a level that none of them could. Time will tell if he succeeds but I think there is a misconception of what he means when he talks about building the program.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I caught bits of Fleck interviews with Dave Lee on CCO, and with Paul Allen on KFAN. both were very similar. Talked about the decision to fire Smith. But what caught my ear was this - Fleck said in both interviews that (paraphrasing) "this is where I expected us to be." he added he was not talking about wins and losses, but the general direction of the program - going with very young players, and potentially taking a step backwards. Fleck also said (again, paraphrasing) that "this is how I build a program."

So, if this is all part of the plan, then the question becomes, when can fans reasonably expect to see improvement? And when does that improvement translate into winning more games?

No matter how much Fleck believes in his system, he has to give fans a reason for hope, and a reason to buy tickets - or the Gophers could be playing in front of 20,000 fans by the end of next year.
Click to expand...
Fleck has consistently said 2020 is the year to expect changes. This is why I chose not to purchase tickets this year and why I won't look to purchase next season. 2020...now that is the year I will think of penciling in the games.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Depends what you define as a breakthrough. When Fleck lays out his plan for when the team arrives he is talking in terms of championships not just 8-9 win seasons. His goal is to build the program into something it hasn't been in a long long long long time which is a contender in the Big Ten.

He isn't a fool, he knows the win total is going to need to go up in the next few seasons in order for him to keep his job. He has never said the team won't be able to compete and win games but it is going to take time to get to where he wants the program to be where it can be a consistent contender year in and year out. That is the breakthrough he talks about.

Fleck doesn't want to maintain the Mason/Kill/Claeys levels of success he wants to take the team to a level that none of them could. Time will tell if he succeeds but I think there is a misconception of what he means when he talks about building the program.
Click to expand...

Judging from what Barry Alvarez did at Wiscy, it is a long four to 5-year cycles with him standing hos ground from critics and doing it his way. He got rid of whiners, complainers, people not willing to put in the hard work. He instituted a regimented disciplined practice and recruited players who wanted to play for Wisconsin. He instilled a winning mentality.

Here's what Barry Alvarez did in his first ten years at Wisconsin:

1990 Wisconsin 1–10-----------0–8------10th
1991 Wisconsin 5–6------------2–6-------T–8th
1992 Wisconsin 5–6------------3–5-------T–6th
1993 Wisconsin 10–1–1-------6–1–1-----T–1st W Rose 5 6
1994 Wisconsin 7–4–1---------4–3–1----4th W Hall of Fame
1995 Wisconsin 4–5–2---------3–4–1----T–7th
1996 Wisconsin 8–5------------3–5-------7th W Copper
1997 Wisconsin 8–5------------5–3-------5th L Outback
1998 Wisconsin 11–1----------7–1--------T–1st W Rose† 5 6
1999 Wisconsin 10–2----------7–1--------1st W Rose† 4 4

The whole point is PJ Fleck has a long road and he needs to raise the bar for excellence for both coaches and players. He needs a thick skin and recruit like crazy. Also, he needs to make sure his coaches are doing what it takes to develop players and coach them properly. I wish he was recruit Carroll and Benhart. It is not just time yet to be able to attract gems like them. But, there hopefully be a time that once his team starts winning that recruiting will be even better. The important thing is player development. They've got to emphasize fundamentals.
 
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hungan1 said:
Here's what Barry Alvarez his first ten years at Wisconsin:

1990 Wisconsin 1–10-----------0–8------10th
1991 Wisconsin 5–6------------2–6-------T–8th
1992 Wisconsin 5–6------------3–5-------T–6th
1993 Wisconsin 10–1–1-------6–1–1-----T–1st W Rose 5 6
1994 Wisconsin 7–4–1---------4–3–1----4th W Hall of Fame
1995 Wisconsin 4–5–2---------3–4–1----T–7th
1996 Wisconsin 8–5------------3–5-------7th W Copper
1997 Wisconsin 8–5------------5–3-------5th L Outback
1998 Wisconsin 11–1----------7–1--------T–1st W Rose† 5 6
1999 Wisconsin 10–2----------7–1--------1st W Rose† 4 4
Click to expand...

Barry took over a team that had won 9 games over the 4 previous years before his hire. Fleck took over a 9 win team.

That said, if Barry did not break through in year 4, he wouldn't have lasted.

If PJ Fleck has the same record at this time next year, there will be rumblings about his future. 1-7 or 2-6 in the Big next year likely gets him fired.
 

When Fleck and Coyle talk about bringing this program to levels it hasn't been to, I assume they just mean beating Wisconsin.
 

Winnipegopher said:
Barry took over a team that had won 9 games over the 4 previous years before his hire. Fleck took over a 9 win team.

That said, if Barry did not break through in year 4, he wouldn't have lasted.

If PJ Fleck has the same record at this time next year, there will be rumblings about his future. 1-7 or 2-6 in the Big next year likely gets him fired.
Click to expand...

The fact that he took a 9-win team into a 5-win team last year, and this year most likely into a 4-win team is disconcerting. This is the Robb Smith effect. If by some magic Claeys was allowed to step down as a head coach and be a Defensive Coordinator, I don't think you will see this retrogression.

It is not because they are losing that is disturbing. It is how they are losing. Heaven forbid, Glenn Mason got fired due to a complete breakdown against TTU when they had a huge lead in the Holiday Bowl. If in the next couple of years, the Gophers are being blown out by those huge margins Fleck's tenure will end. No AD or school president will hang their hat on that.

The reason why he does not want a lot of Junior College players is the reason why Barry Alvarez was successful. You need to develop players that are going to be in your system 4 to 5 years, and then establish continuity.

Because of the decision to hire Robb Smith, I think his timetable is longer and endangers himself being fired down the road. He knows he blew it. I hate to be negative, but he missed an opportunity due to the wrong hire.
 
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Winnipegopher said:
Barry took over a team that had won 9 games over the 4 previous years before his hire. Fleck took over a 9 win team.

That said, if Barry did not break through in year 4, he wouldn't have lasted.

If PJ Fleck has the same record at this time next year, there will be rumblings about his future. 1-7 or 2-6 in the Big next year likely gets him fired.
Click to expand...

Fleck took over a 9 win team that finished 4th in the West division and he took over a 9 win team that was not constructed to maintain that same level of success going forward (no matter how much some fans still want to keep the blinders on and refuse to actually look at the roster from last year).

You are correct though, if there are not clear signs of improvement next year Fleck's seat will get very warm going into year 4 and if next year is a total disaster he could certainly find himself out of a job at the end of the season but I don't see that happening.
 

I don't understand how people get so upset with Fleck.

The last game coached before he won was the 2016 Holiday Bowl over Washington State.

The only place to go from there was downward.
 

Face The Facts said:
Says the team is young and inexperienced and they've had injuries.
These aren't excuses. They are reasons.

Won't be wholesale changes on D, but some changes.
Click to expand...

Nothing stopping young players from learning though. Only size and speed can't be taught.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

CentralGopher said:
Nothing stopping young players from learning though. Only size and speed can't be taught.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was Fleck's young players getting pushed around by Smith's young players in that last one.
 

Winnipegopher said:
Barry took over a team that had won 9 games over the 4 previous years before his hire. Fleck took over a 9 win team.

That said, if Barry did not break through in year 4, he wouldn't have lasted.

If PJ Fleck has the same record at this time next year, there will be rumblings about his future. 1-7 or 2-6 in the Big next year likely gets him fired.
Click to expand...

If there isn't improvement in play next season, the plug should be pulled and we need to go in a new direction.
PJ took one MAC school and built them into a good team. There have been many other MAC coaches who have done exactly the same thing. Some of them have panned out at the P5 level and some haven't.
Had PJ been a builder of multiple programs through the years, giving him a longer leash would be warranted, but that is not the case.

The way the season ended last year with them basically laying down and not being competitive the final two weeks was a very troubling sign.
I also don't like all of his excuse making through the two seasons. Work with what you have and build your systems from year to year around the talents of the players on the team now. If players aren't performing, give some others a chance and see if they can do the job.

His change in DC was needed and him making the decision now was a good move, if the team and coaches respond and can be competitive over these final three games.
 

Face The Facts said:
I don't understand how people get so upset with Fleck...
.
Click to expand...

You don't understand?

It's pretty easy. He's been the Head Coach for 15 Big Ten games. He's only won 3 of them while giving-up 30+ plus points 12 times. Strong possibility that by the end of the year his Big Ten record will be 3-15.

I give him all the credit in the world for trying to shake things up and not be blown-out in those last 3 games. However, to expect the majority of Gopher Fans to be happy about the situation and be satisfied with watching them get blown-out for another 2-3 years is insane.

Particularly those who've actually shelled-out the money for Season Tickets and are sitting in TCF to watch those debacles.
 

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